Re: Whats the barrier here?
If I understand you right you are asking why doesn't the fantasy manifest in reality.
My answer would be that there is no real intention to actually manifest anything in the real world. The act is self contained and serves its own purpose. There is no intent, say, to actual manifest "the ideal partner" pictured in the fantasy. Quite the opposite I would think. i.e. the intent would be to avoid the necessity of real world interaction or intimacy.
Re: Whats the barrier here?
I'd say: Action and availability.
You can imagine all you want, but if you never interact with the "world outside" in a way that has an impact, you create no consequences that might also entail the intended result. If someone intends to meet people of the other gender but never actually musters the courage to talk to someone, all you have is fantasy.
Availability could mean several things, but it basically means someone actually willing to give what is asked for. Manifestation does not ultimately violate free will, so any wish needs to have someone willing to comply with it. Hence for example some rock bands seem to have lived the fantasies of a boy adolescents because there are people willing out there to give them what they want.
Further factors must be in play that go beyond these two. Many people want to win the lotto, play the lotto, but only a small percentage wins. It is unclear if manifestation has discernible influence on the outcome and if so, how much and under what circumstances.
Re: Whats the barrier here?
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Many people want to win the lotto, play the lotto, but only a small percentage wins. It is unclear if manifestation has discernible influence on the outcome and if so, how much and under what circumstances.
I have an observation about this- I still haven't met anyone who plays the lotto that expects to win it. I think this is the barrier in this respect. When it comes down to this, when people spend this dollar, they are aware of the 'low' chances, and even though they know there is a possibility, the expectation is very low.
Re: Whats the barrier here?
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Originally Posted by
Tom Booth
why doesn't the fantasy manifest in reality.
Not quite - I'm not debating semantics here but wouldnt "fantasy" be more of an idle day dreaming thing? as in the fact that the person engaged in fantasy/wishful thinking has already his/her parameters pre-set "I can dream of a supermodel but actually landing one isnt much happening" as opposed to exercizing onanism "Yes this is what I want ,This is definitely how im going to get off" "This is exactly what does it for me"
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Originally Posted by
Tom Booth
the intent would be to avoid the necessity of real world interaction or intimacy.
Thats a rather big assumption/generalization im afraid (to assume that most pple are masturbating out of a defence mechanism or impaired social interaction or intimacy phobias) what i had postulated ,sorry , was that person who is engaging in such visuals/routine wants it exactly like that in the real world too.
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Originally Posted by
Tom Booth
The act is self contained and serves its own purpose.
Thats exactly why I outlined the tenets before posulting what impedes the manifestation so that you can cut it down to the least common denominator and compare it to "but thats just blowing steam"
.At any rate i wasnt debating either the physiological/psychological needs the human species has for self-engagement but comparing it instead to highlight how the process is remarkably similar within itself to a complete manifestation program.
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Originally Posted by
Korpo
You can imagine all you want, but if you never interact with the "world outside" in a way that has an impact, you create no consequences.
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Originally Posted by
Korpo
..never actually musters the courage to talk to someone, all you have is fantasy
Once again , im not quite sure why most people would assume that the going criteria to masturbate is that you have to be a shut-in hermit to get about it or have significant social impairment or in the latter case lack of resolve or essential idiopathic fright/reluctance/diffidence towards women
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Originally Posted by
Korpo
Availability could mean several things, but it basically means someone actually willing to give what is asked for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Korpo
rock bands seem to have lived the fantasies of a boy adolescents because there are people willing out there to give them what they want.
I'm not sure how this "reciprocating other half" comes into play about what im aiming at.Given current day and time and how the internet advent has boosted the paraphillia market it goes right along with what i'm saying : that the "alternative" faction of sexual gratification is no longer a minority - as in the fact that i wouldnt quite consider reciprocation to be barrier within itself solely.
Re: Whats the barrier here?
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im not quite sure why most people would assume that the going criteria to masturbate is that you have to be a shut-in hermit to get about it or have significant social impairment or in the latter case lack of resolve or essential idiopathic fright/reluctance/diffidence towards women
Maybe because the reason that i most people do it is just for 'blowing off of steam'. The idea of a person 'having to be a shut in hermit who can't talk to women' was your judgement on their answer. Please don't do that.
Witchcraft (I don't mean 'black magic', I mean 'ritualistic spellcasting') sometimes does use masturbation as a channel for manifestation, and it works for those who have tried it- but the act of commonplace masturbation does not have the intent to manifest that IMO is the important difference.
For manifesting, you need the intent to manifest, the ability to manifest astrally (which can be called imagination+emotion) and energy, and 'regular' masturbation lacks the first one, even if it has the other two in spades.
Re: Whats the barrier here?
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avoid the necessity of real world interaction or intimacy
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if you never interact with the "world outside"
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intends to meet people of the other gender but never actually musters the courage to talk
what i was refering to was extrapolation on a line of thought , not judgement,which is why i will clarify that i have no reason to take a slam at anyone for thinking why they think pple masturbate ,steam ,seclusion et al.
For the issue of conciously placed intent , that too is strange since one is consistenly told that the language of the subconcious is pictorial and one is visualizing in altered states of conciousness (blowing steam and then drifting off)
Also a lot of pple say that everything changes with intent - which is again odd since if intentful masturbation was manifestation tool par exellence or effective for that matter wouldnt there be causal association of masturbation with outcome and reality? or does this sound like statistical improbablity?
Re: Whats the barrier here?
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does this sound like statistical improbablity?
Considering the data, I would think so. So many tastes and inclinations, sometimes at odds with each other.
One thing you can say is that many people are drawn to beauty, and even that is in the eye of the beholder. Most of the time. :-)
Re: Whats the barrier here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DarkChylde
Thats a rather big assumption/generalization im afraid (to assume that most pple are masturbating out of a defence mechanism or impaired social interaction or intimacy phobias) what i had postulated ,sorry , was that person who is engaging in such visuals/routine wants it exactly like that in the real world too.
Generalizing, though I'm no expert on the subject, I would guess that in most cases what a person intends by the act is immediate self gratification or relief from tension. That immediate intent is certainly realized in the majority of cases and so there is no "barrier" IMO.
You have qualified or clarified your meaning so let me respond to that.
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"Yes this is what I want ,...
...what i had postulated ,sorry , was that person who is engaging in such visuals/routine wants it exactly like that in the real world too.
Taking this out of the Onanism context. Suppose a person is simply house shopping. They drive by their "dream house" and say "That is just what I want, a house just like that".
To "want" is to not have.
This would be a rather ineffective "affirmation" as it is derived from a recognition that what is wanted is currently lacking. i.e. "this is what I want" - (but don't have)
There are various elements to "manifesting", one of which is "grounding" by taking appropriate action. If the desired reality were currently manifest and the situation or opportunity for real world fulfillment presented itself, Onanism would probably be out of harmony with the intent.
A potentially more effective methodology might be to imagine the ideal partner knocking on the door. Go through the actions appropriate to such a situation as if it were actually happening in real time. If action is not in harmony with intent the manifestation will be blocked.
That is, sitting in a chair and proceeding to gratify oneself would probably not be the action taken if such a real world situation presented itself. Such would be the action taken when the real world situation is recognized to be absent and one has resigned oneself to the idea that it will never happen.
Re: Whats the barrier here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tom Booth
If I understand you right you are asking why doesn't the fantasy manifest in reality.
My answer would be that there is no real intention to actually manifest anything in the real world. The act is self contained and serves its own purpose. There is no intent, say, to actual manifest "the ideal partner" pictured in the fantasy. Quite the opposite I would think. i.e. the intent would be to avoid the necessity of real world interaction or intimacy.
But the teen doesnt intended to manifest anything there of his current life too and yet it exists. This is why I think that for manifestation at least high level manifestation you need to get into a meta-consiousness level as explained in Holographic Universe.
