demonic attack

[Korpo]

Hello, klabs1976.

What CF said about demons is one possible opinion. I don't even think they exist at all.

From my point of view there are good people and bad people out there, dead and alive, developed and undeveloped. And there are higher orders of beings, but none of them is trying to exert power over you in a way that would cause you harm.

There is a certain segment of the internet talking about the dangers of astral projection or the occult. Lots of these sites have Christian or sectarian background, and they are largely based on fact-free and unreasonable fearmongering, and belong more to the realm of fantasy than anything else. People there tell each other scary stories and get mighty upset about it, lots of drama, real hogwash.

A friend of mine pointed to me such a site once, being very worried about it. I wasn't sure if I should have had a good laugh about it, or be angry about the amount of misinformation. He, on the other hand, was constantly going on about "But what if it is true?" Well, I couldn't see a way of helping him with that attitude.

There are real cases of occult trouble out there, no doubt. Each one needs detailed analysis before coming to a verdict of the causes (and I mean the energetic and personal causes). Unless you are one of these, and show the symptoms, there's no reason to believe so.

Robert Monroe projected for 30+ years, and he reports in 3 books one truly scary experience. Everything else he was able to handle without any great trouble. For most explorers of consciousness the positive or neutral experiences by far outweigh the negative ones.

However, it is from your posts very clear, as others have also said, that you are already very scared. It would be probably best for you to "clean up your reading habits." You seem to have taken in a lot of fearmongering information and seem to be susceptible to it.

Cheers,
Oliver

[TheLawOfOne]

klabs1976, I know how you feel. For a long time, I wanted to do OBEs but was afraid that my fear would cause me to visit lower realms or see things I didn't want to see. Two things really helped me get over these fears and start having OBEs. One is I made it a goal to raise my spiritual energy by being more positive and more helpful towards others, like donating and stuff. Another thing that helped is I read, adventures beyond the body by William Buhlman. And the way he writes really dispelled my fears and made me exited to want to have an OBE.

When I felt I was ready by doing these two things, I started practicing the techniques and managed to have OBEs.

Thank you guys...You gave me courage...I will get back to my OBE soon....I take the risk and hope for the best!

[Alienor]

My suggestion here would be to start with Lucid dreaming instead of trying to push into an AP. You might not even notice the difference in the beginning.
In a lucid dream you stay in your own personal dream space, that is a pretty safe place, where we go every night. There you can practice things like floating and what people anyway seem to like to do in an AP.
Then just allow your inner wisdom to guide you - maybe read about the simulation thread (with Kurt Leland). So you want to stay in safe environments and take it slow.

If you experience an uncomfortable situation or an attack, just intent to wake up - that you should learn with a bit of practice. Then clear your aura and allow some days of rest for your energy body.

[poème]

I was scared of the dark and slept with my lamp on!

Natalie, this truly had me laughing inside...for I really did that too! I'm glad to see I am not the only one who did so...

Klabs1976, I used to be so filled with fears too, perhaps even more than you. Everyone on this threads had given great advices... Try what works best for you to let go of your fears. Without fear, no real harm can be done to you. Even if you do encounter a neg, if you have little fear, it won't have much hold on you. It can only try to scare you, or try to mess with what you are thinking. As long as you are aware of that, I believe it truly can't harm you.

Something odd happened to me just last night. It did not happen during an OBE, as I was still awake, but I think you will see how it relates to fear and how little control «negs» have on us when the fear level is low :
So I was in bed, trying to fall asleep when suddenly the large mirror on top of my dresser started vibrating and making some heavy noise for no apparent reason. (The only time it had done so before was when there has been a light earthquake in my area. Back then, the whole room and all the other furnitures shaked too though. Now it was only the mirror.) I opened the light and looked at the mirror, thinking this was odd, but I tried to avoid jumping to a conclusion out of fear as to what was causing this. (I used to do that a lot which would only cause me to fear things I had no reason to fear) I had no mean to be sure of this anyway : was there some physical explanation, was it some bored spirit trying to have fun by scaring me, was it some testing to see if my fear level was still under control? So I stayed calm and simply said (in my mind) in case it was a being, that whatever was its reasons to do that, I did not think this was very funny and that it was late : I really needed to sleep, and so I told it to stop. It faded then stopped.

I was not completely fearless here, especially since my cat had woken up and when the mirror shaking (or vibrating?) stopped, she kept staring back and forth at the mirror and at the corridor leading to my bedroom, alert and apparently intrigued... On top of that, when I came to her to calm her down (or to calm myself down ), I was apparently blocking her from seeing what she was staring at in the corridor, for she would move her head to keep looking! So this really had me thinking that perhaps something or someone was there, and fear was not completely out, but it was somewhat low, since I believed it really could do no real harm to me besides trying to scare me or messing with my thoughts a little (Nothing irreversible!). Being calm apparently was enough for making it stop and leave. In the end, no harm was done and I had a good night sleep.

About encounters while OBE, reading William Buhlman, as someone else suggested on the thread, did help me too. This thread also reminded me of a curious encounter Robert Monroe describes in Ultimate Journey pages 208-209 (there may be some spoilers here, sorry! ) :
So he meets a being who pretends to be «the Lord thy Good, whom you serve» and the being, rather nasty, messes with his mind by making him think that he «feels» pressure and «feels» he has water in his lungs and that he can't breathe. The he remembers that this can't be true for he has no lungs since he is out of body, that this being is only making him think so to have power over him. So he tells himself that no harm can be done to him, and he tries remaining calm, warm and even friendly. When the being asks him whether he accepts him as his god, instead of succombing to fear, he is amused by the idea of a god threatening him, and he lets that idea flow out. The hold of the being on him lessens but he keeps trying to make him fear him : «Do you not fear me?» he says. But Monroe does not fear him and when the being realizes that it is really so, he leaves, quite possibly because it really had no hold on him if he held no fear...

And sometimes I wonder, even if we do fear, can harm really be done to us (besides the fear and its side-effects on us... Such as having to sleep with the light on! )?

[manish_gof]

Thank you guys...You gave me courage...I will get back to my OBE soon....I take the risk and hope for the best!

Friend... Absolutely NOTHING can harm you.. Daemons are nothing but your own imaginary entities (mostly). While out of body if you think about daemons, your subconscious will create one for you. If there are negs around if any, FEEL a sword in your hands and if that entity attacks, you know what you have to do.

All wildlife etc. will not come near you because you are far more powerful than those .. so.. don't loose your confidence.. see you around..astrally..!!

[Enochian]

I had 3 OBEs so far and didn't have any trouble but I can't do anymore because of my fears....

Dude this fear is all in your head. No demon is going to attack you specifically while OBE'ing. Thats just a Dweller on the Threshold phenomenon. Read Astral Dynamics.

A demon is going to attack ANYTIME, not just during OBE.

There is no risk from OBEing. If anything you are MORE PROTECTED during OBE as the body throws up a protection system that wakes up the body if anything enters the room. This is in Astral Dynamics.

Oh and by the way everyone, including animals, OBE every night. This is in Astral Dynamics

So by using your logic, you should never go to sleep.

[astral_1976]

Sorry to bring this topic up again but something happened and need some more opinion.

When it comes to ghosts/demons etc. I am friegthened to death and just because if this reason, I stop meditating but my OBEs continue. I keep having them. So couple weeks ago, I started asking help from my higher self for protection. And immediately that night and many other following nights, I saw ghosts in my dreams. But unlike what I expect, instead of fear I had so much anger in me against them. As soon as I saw a ghost in my dream, I ran after them like I want to fight with them. I won't let them go and follow them as much as possible with so much anger and ready to fight no matter what. I find it strange. The other night I fall a sleep as usual. I somehow wake up and felt a presence. A large rectangular being, like a hulk, standing right beside my feet and doing something there. I was paralyzed so I couldn't move. I try to get out but I couldn't. So I closed my eyes and opened again - hoping that he would disappear and hoping that I was just dreaming - but he was still there. I repeated 3 times and he was still there. I got so angry again and shout at him, he became annoyed and kinda cursed at me. Then I became even more angry and push myself out of my body. I was so angry and looking for him in the room but something pushed my head to the ceiling. I wasn't scared but instead the more I was pushed the more angry I got and wanted to fight with him to the end. But somehow I woke up.
My interpretation is this....Somehow my higherself is showing me my problem of anger thru my fears. Any thoughts?

[CFTraveler]

It's possible that as you evolve you will figure out these are tests, not by someone external to you, but from your own self-aspects, and the lessons will change. In my own experience they went from fear to anger to compassion, and it was after I got to 'compassion' that these types of experiences happened. These are referred to as 'simulations' by the author Kurt Leland, which he breaks down in more detail in the dreaming subforum.

[astral_1976]

It's possible that as you evolve you will figure out these are tests, not by someone external to you, but from your own self-aspects, and the lessons will change. In my own experience they went from fear to anger to compassion, and it was after I got to 'compassion' that these types of experiences happened. These are referred to as 'simulations' by the author Kurt Leland, which he breaks down in more detail in the dreaming subforum.

It is very interesting that you bring "compassion" into the equation. Lately, I am trying to discover more about compassion. I guess this is my challange for now. Beat the anger and obtain compassion. I agree that these are the tests and although they are presented in subtleways - I start to notice the pattern. It is very exciting!