The Leading Edge of Growth - Kurt Leland

[poème]

(...) there's a difference between sharing and discussing and needing to convince

Just wanted to highlight these words

[Tutor]

i received the interpretative meaning of that particular quote within it's original context in quite the opposite way. but i get how, in the way that it is worded, how it is most easily taken as read.

tim

[poème]

We don't seem to understand each others very well...
Just in case: I was not aiming at you.

[Tutor]

We don't seem to understand each others very well...
Just in case: I was not aiming at you.

awww friend, it's okie dokie... i am not that which you 'just in case' imagine that i might be. i am me, before ever you imagine any further of this me. i dont require understanding you in order to accept you as you are. was never a challenge of you, i merely beg to differ on the interpretation. i dont imagine that has anything to do with either of us as we truly presently are.

with high respect for BeeKeeper as well, it isnt about personal challenge. these words we share in here, or within any authored book for that matter, arent going to be chiseled in stone for all eternity to gaze upon in wonderment. as written to be shared, they've no right to hold that much personal internalized magnitude. if they do hold within them such magnitude, i suggest a personal locked diary as course of action.

all words have the read literalism of meaning, as well as having been grouped in larger context their interpretive sum of meaning. i dont tend toward literal values beyond the scope of usage and spelling of any particular word. i do tend however to interpret the grouped sum of contextual meaning.

[Alienor]

We don't seem to understand each others very well...

This seems to be very much so. Especially when people get emotional or defensive.

Just like realizing that one does not need to convince everybody about what one does think is the truth

This was not at all a comment about Kurt, but I was replying to eyeoneblack and stating with this also, that I do not feel the need to convince him. I enter discussions on forums often to give an alternative point of view for readers - those people who do not have yet made up their mind.

And just the same I did reply to eyeoneblack when I mention putting out fires, as he stated

There is so much suffering in the world one easily waste themselves emotionally and physically putting out fires that aren’t theirs.

So I did stay within the metaphor pointing out, that I think it is good practice to help others when need arises.

[Korpo]

So I did stay within the metaphor pointing out, that I think it is good practice to help others when need arises.

As nobody defined what the call is... The call arises when you have adequate resources to help. Or it arises to help you develop those resources.

It's also about discernment. Beek gave a rather drastic example of when somebody has no adequate resources to help. But there are also cases, and E1B gave a good example, where I could imagine one is not called to help. It might be one has the resources to help, but the help would not actually change the situation for the better. It would just result in "the helper" giving without furthering anything.

One of the necessary discernments to develop is to spot whether one can truly benefit the greater good of a situation (and there will be a call if that is the case) or if one just acts on one's conditioning, beliefs and ideas. Any situation with dysfunctional people or families involved is a good example for this because there are no easy answers in these cases. Learning to spot the call is helpful to avoid getting dragged into situations where one is tired out for little benefit.

The co-dependant situations so many helpers find themselves in are an example of this. As long as they continue to help, because they feel it to be their duty to help because they define themselves as helpful by default, they keep on prolonging undesirable situations where they don't actually help the other, but instead keep up the dynamic for even longer. Situations like this teach the consequence of getting involved without a call. They might challenge a helper to accept that no amount of help can do what the other person is not willing to allow. Yet, if you ask many of these people they would probably tell it their vocation is to help. That might not mean that they were called to help in that specific situation, though.

The situation Kurt talked about was not as general, though, but for action on the other side. If one can be of assistance, one will be invited to help. We can see this for example with Bruce Moen and his involvement with retrievals, always in cooperation with his guides. Kurt has received many calls to record lesser-known parts of the afterlife journey.

On the other hand, I have seen many causes over the years where people declared they would do something out-of-body which to me, now, doesn't even make sense in the bigger picture. They fight battles that I cannot imagine there was ever a call for, and nothing will come of it - except at one point the realisation to stop when one is tired. Another example is given in the adventure itself.

The limitation of "the white magic path" as portrayed here (which is an extreme) is that people following it try to help regardless of whether the help will be effective or what it does to themselves. Just as "black magicians" have little regard for others (who they see as means of wish-fulfillment) the "white magicians" have little regard for themselves. Both paths pursued to the extreme have negative consequences.

Cheers,
Oliver

[Beekeeper]

Apologies, Alienor, to the extent that I misunderstood you. Namaste.

Beek gave a rather drastic example of when somebody has no adequate resources to help.

Deliberately.

I like your point about fighting battles. This sounds like fantasy-fulfilment to me or, perhaps, a metaphor for inner work, taken literally.

[Alienor]

The co-dependant situations so many helpers find themselves in are an example of this.

This is especially true for many of those helpers, who earn their livelihood with "spiritual work". The client keeps on needing help and the person needs on earning money and of course also wants to help his clients.

But that is a vast topic actually. I did write to someone here who had asked for help: http://forums.astraldynamics.com/vie...128854#p128881
Such does lead in my opinion often to those co-dependent situations, which appears to be very common.

[eyeoneblack]

This was not at all a comment about Kurt, but I was replying to eyeoneblack and stating with this also, that I do not feel the need to convince him. I enter discussions on forums often to give an alternative point of view for readers - those people who do not have yet made up their mind.

Ditto, friend

I often feel I have nothing to do here but provide something amusing, maybe thoughtful, for the entertainment of our many readers - and not for the already well illumined minds of the posters.

[Korpo]

Hello, Alienor.

Yes, I agree, it's a huge topic. Certainly one area of learning not easily exhausted because of the variety of constellations it can appear in.

Cheers,
Oliver