Michael Raduga

**sono2** · 5th September 2011, 06:11 AM

Has anyone read Michael Raduga's book on OBE? He has some interesting tips on maintaining "the phase", as he calls it, but is totally opposed to the idea of anything metaphysical. Still, I found some of his views interesting & thought-provoking. Here's a link:

http://books.obe4u.com/

**Sinera** · 5th September 2011, 11:16 AM

I don't think he denies the metaphysical. It is more that he leaves all explanations and interpretations open and concentrates on the practical issues to reach these states / have these experiences. (Personally I think it's the same case with LaBerge and his Lucid Dreaming books.)

**Beekeeper** · 5th September 2011, 11:45 AM

Yes, I played with his exercises for awhile and had tremendous success with them but, like everything with me, it always works best at the novelty stage.

sleeper · 5th September 2011, 04:51 PM

that book is enormous.

why do spiritual people write such gargantuan books? it takes them forever to get around to a point.

btw the book seems fine. i didn't delve much into the subtleties of it; i merely scanned it. it has basically the same stuff that all modern obe books have, except he must subscribe to the notion that it's all just 'brainstates' or something not 'real,' which i disagree wholeheartedly with.

**Sinera** · 5th September 2011, 05:16 PM

hm, does he really say it's not real?
brainstates does not necessarily mean it's not real, because you have different brain states (theta, delta, etc.) to access (experience, download, memorise etc.) different 'bands' (=dimensions) of reality, such as the 'astral' or whatever

sleeper · 5th September 2011, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Volgerle

hm, does he really say it's not real?
brainstates does not necessarily mean it's not real, because you have different brain states (theta, delta, etc.) to access (experience, download, memorise etc.) different 'bands' (=dimensions) of reality, such as the 'astral' or whatever

i don't know if he says it outright; but he implies it with his notion of 'the phase.'

just my 2c

**CFTraveler** · 5th September 2011, 07:42 PM

That's funny, I was thinking that most people that write in descriptive terms (in the sense of teaching or explaining something) are long-winded; mainly me.

The reason I do it is that I usually write in stream-of-consciousness, and after I'm done I go back and correct the more atrocious grammar errors and try to divide the paragraphs to not hurt anyone's eyes, but sometimes I can't help myself; I keep going and going and going.....

**sono2** · 6th September 2011, 06:12 AM

Hahaha - me too, only I get all verbose & pretentious when I write, especially anything "spiritual". . (slaps self on cheek)

Re M Raduga, he definitely does say that it is not "real", & in his forum, he defies anyone to prove the reality of the astral, challenging them to look at digits or writing in "the phase" - he says it simply can't be done.

Apparently at first, he did believe it was astral projection, but after more experience, concluded it was all mental "phasing" . Yet he agrees that one can learn information previously unknown to one while in the phase; & he mentions a mind-blowing experience he had with some sort of dinosaur when he went back in time. (It seems the prehistoric world was hot, humid & stank appallingly!) I'm not denigrating Robert's work btw, but Raduga's techniques can be applied as well.. . .

sleeper · 6th September 2011, 01:51 PM

saying that it's all phasing is a bold claim, especially since there are hundreds of thousands of conscious projectors, and he's basing his opinion of them on his personal experience.

i know people that say "it's all in your head" and they only believe that because they sucked at projection. period. oh and they're arrogant.

furthermore we don't have to prove that it's real. must we prove that a crying baby is actually sad and not making it up? must we prove that mathematics is real, even though 95% is purely mental and doesn't directly apply to anything physical? must we prove that memory is distinct from the brain?

there are many things that have practical and scientific legitimacy but are unproven, including astral projection.

ulitmately, i'm aggravated at the notion that everything is delusion. that, to me, is a scientific scapegoat.

~dale

**CFTraveler** · 6th September 2011, 03:33 PM

look at digits or writing in "the phase" - he says it simply can't be done.

Maybe he can't do it, but I often do. Sometimes I can't, sometimes I can, but I don't know why this proves anything.
I do agree that it's impossible to 'prove' the AP is 'real' in scientific terms, but for other reasons not germane to this thread.