What are the limitations of the Astral?

[dan4112]

From what I've read, when you go to the astral you can manifest your thoughts and desires by sheer intent or willing it into being. So, say I'm in an astral realm with a group of other souls and we live by an astral beach. I figure I want to see some whales so this thought manifests and there are now whales in the ocean. I assume the others there would also see the whales.

So, my question is: is it really that easy? And are there any limitations? I mean, if you can just manifest anything you want, it would seem that no more advancement is necessary for you would essentially have complete control over your reality.

[CFTraveler]

Being a collective environment, you can manifest whatever you intend to (and sometimes, stuff you don't intend)- but the stability of your manifestation depends on how much energy is going into maintaining it. So, if you manifest a whale in an astral ocean, and others are experiencing (and enjoying it) it will last as long as you and others pay attention to it- this can be a long time or little time, depending on others' contribution to the scape.
What is the limitation? Depends on the collective's belief system and attention span. If you are not paying attention to it it will eventually disintegrate, unless others are also paying attention to it.

[Korpo]

Robert Waggoner makes an interesting observation in his book "Lucid Dreams" - the dream may respond to his wishes, but only to an extent. He conjured a collection of naked ladies for example, but yet at other occasions the creations behaved with their own intent, and how a creation would turn out came from somewhere else. Something he definitely found worth to explore, and he wrote about his impressions in his book, seeing the lucid dream as a way to connect with a higher intelligence.

The theosophists believe that the dream and astral environments are created by "astral matter." Astral matter is rushing in, forming the environments surrounding the dreamer and giving him or her a dream-like experience. This experience is like a dream-bubble surrounding the dreamer. This is a very flexible environment, but the creations of the dreamer are limited to it. Kurt Leland believes that one can go beyond such environments into the wider astral plane only if a certain degree of ability exists to contain one's emotions and to stay focussed. Thoughts and intentions manifest consequences much quicker on the astral plane, and according to Kurt entry to the wider astral plane is granted when one essentially does not "pollute" the environment with such random creations and emotions.

Emotions play a role in this. The astral plane is a plane of desire and emotions. Unexpressed emotions and desires can generate again such dream-bubble environments to discharge them. This is exactly what attracts the rush-in of astral matter.

Asking for a change, as you suggested, might be an effective way to change such an astral environment. It leaves the nature of the change to the environment, and demonstrates its creative powers. An intent or a strong desire to experience something will then manifest something, but this process can work both consciously (in lucid dreams) and unconsciously (most other dreams) - in the later case we usually don't make the connection between what we see and what is within us, waiting for expression or discharge.

Kurt also suggested in a recently published newsletter about the nature of the astral plane that this is the place where deceased spirits can for example experience their desires coming through. Unfulfilled wishes that may have accumulated during a lifetime, being discharged through experiences of such desirable realities. This would be part of the function of the upper astral planes.

[dan4112]

So, the question really is how much conscious control do you have over your creations in the astral? Are you consciously in charge of exactly what gets manifested and how it acts or is some higher part of your consciousness creating the manifestation for you to experience based on your emotions and thought forms?

I've often struggled with this. I consciously believe that my consciousness is part of a Source Consciousness that is constantly projecting reality, so anything is possible because anything could get projected. Although I consciously believe anything is possible, I still find that reality doesn't respond to my conscious thoughts immediately. For example, I can tell myself there is a hot cup of coffee sitting on the table, visualize it, and try to believe it's there, but so far no coffee cup has materialized. So, physical reality seems to have built in limitations, which can be overcome if you can access deeper levels of consciousness. But for the most part we all seem to follow certain rules of the game so to speak.

I guess in the astral, the rules of the game are a little different, right? For instance, you can travel by thought and communicate telepathically. But you still don't have complete conscious control over reality. But still you have more control than in physical reality. Am I on the right track here?

Another interesting note: I recently read an OBE/NDE (http://www.nderf.org/glenda_g_possible_nde.htm) where she found herself in the astral plane in a house which was being constructed by a group of astral level construction workers who were surprised to see her there because they weren't finished constructing her house yet. But they telepathically told her that it was ok because they could just work around her. So I guess a good question would be if she wanted to later make changes to her astral home, would she have to ask the construction crew to come back and make the changes or would she have the ability to consciously alter it with her mind?

[CFTraveler]

I've often struggled with this. I consciously believe that my consciousness is part of a Source Consciousness that is constantly projecting reality, so anything is possible because anything could get projected. Although I consciously believe anything is possible, I still find that reality doesn't respond to my conscious thoughts immediately. For example, I can tell myself there is a hot cup of coffee sitting on the table, visualize it, and try to believe it's there, but so far no coffee cup has materialized.

That's because physical reality is a medium in which things manifest in spacetime- therefore it takes time, space and manifestation is turning energy into matter. So thinking about a cup of coffee will more than likely cause you to go make a cup or coffee, or have someone call you on the phone and invite you for coffee. Every matrix has it's rules, but still thought responsive.

So, physical reality seems to have built in limitations, which can be overcome if you can access deeper levels of consciousness. But for the most part we all seem to follow certain rules of the game so to speak.

And accessing deeper levels of consciousness is the trick, the basis for many forms of magic.

I guess in the astral, the rules of the game are a little different, right? For instance, you can travel by thought and communicate telepathically. But you still don't have complete conscious control over reality. But still you have more control than in physical reality. Am I on the right track here?

The operative phrase here is 'conscious' control. You are not just your conscious mind, you are also your unconscious/subconscious/superconscious mind. So unless you get all those in alignment, your results may vary.

Another interesting note: I recently read an OBE/NDE (http://www.nderf.org/glenda_g_possible_nde.htm) where she found herself in the astral plane in a house which was being constructed by a group of astral level construction workers who were surprised to see her there because they weren't finished constructing her house yet. But they telepathically told her that it was ok because they could just work around her. So I guess a good question would be if she wanted to later make changes to her astral home, would she have to ask the construction crew to come back and make the changes or would she have the ability to consciously alter it with her mind?

It is more than likely that those astral workers were self-aspects, as many projectors have come to realize historically- that many of the presences they have encountered in the nonphysical, the ones who have certain foreknowledge or special abilities were either future versions of themselves, or self-aspects (anima, animus) that had certain qualities that identified them.
Of course, this is only observation, and speculation....and statistics.

[Korpo]

So, the question really is how much conscious control do you have over your creations in the astral? Are you consciously in charge of exactly what gets manifested and how it acts or is some higher part of your consciousness creating the manifestation for you to experience based on your emotions and thought forms?

Robert Waggoner's experience suggests otherwise. He discovered that the real creator was unseen and unidentified, that all the details he didn't think of were still fleshed out, and surprises included beyond that. The same experience is reported by Bruce Moen who was supposed to create his own spiritual place during exercises of the Monroe Institute's Lifeline program. The reality he created ultimately always started to surprise him, and he encountered entities that had not emerged from his imagination and had their very own mind.

Imagine having to "think up" every tiny detail of a scene with conscious effort. It might certainly not be as hard as painting a picture, but it is hard effort, and the result will always seem lacking. But entering a dream is effortless, and with the same ease whole realities are created around you with an invisible brush, full of detail beyond conscious imagination. That's an enormous contrast.

I've often struggled with this. I consciously believe that my consciousness is part of a Source Consciousness that is constantly projecting reality, so anything is possible because anything could get projected.

The emphasis here is on "part." You don't have the state of consciousness from which the Source experiences all of creation. If you had that, you'd have the Source's understanding and the Source's powers.

Although I consciously believe anything is possible, I still find that reality doesn't respond to my conscious thoughts immediately. For example, I can tell myself there is a hot cup of coffee sitting on the table, visualize it, and try to believe it's there, but so far no coffee cup has materialized. So, physical reality seems to have built in limitations, which can be overcome if you can access deeper levels of consciousness. But for the most part we all seem to follow certain rules of the game so to speak.

Physical reality is slowed down - CF explained it quite well. It is a different environment that teaches different lessons than the planes of higher vibration. It's not that you cannot manifest here, though this is not what you're asking for. Here on the physical plane we call what you ask for materialization, and that is beyond the abilities of most people. I don't think any of us can imagine the state of consciousness needed to materialize something.

CF gives you examples of manifestation as it works on the physical plane, and already the second example is quite beyond what a lot of people on this planet dare imagine - that you can think of something and it is suddenly reflected back to you in your surrounding reality. There's no perceptible cause that links your thoughts to the phone ringing and a friend inviting you over for a cup of joe. Synchronicities are strong indications of the link between human consciousness and all the realities it experiences, even on the physical plane.

I guess in the astral, the rules of the game are a little different, right? For instance, you can travel by thought and communicate telepathically. But you still don't have complete conscious control over reality. But still you have more control than in physical reality. Am I on the right track here?

The word control is a bit problematic here. I was inclined to say that if you had the state of consciousness of the Source, you would have such control. But control is the wrong word, because the Source is not using force. The Source invites us and laid down certain fundamental laws (as in physics) that guide its creation, but it does not exercise control in the same ways we might imagine. We're not far from biblical territory here - the ways of the Source are mysterious insofar we don't have achieved the necessary state of understanding to comprehend them, and our concepts and words fall short of describing them.

I find the term "consensus reality" helpful as it highlights that reality is somehow negotiated between all consciousness occupying it, deriving from the Source. I however do not take it to mean that we know much about how this is brought about or what influences what.

Another interesting note: I recently read an OBE/NDE (http://www.nderf.org/glenda_g_possible_nde.htm) where she found herself in the astral plane in a house which was being constructed by a group of astral level construction workers who were surprised to see her there because they weren't finished constructing her house yet. But they telepathically told her that it was ok because they could just work around her. So I guess a good question would be if she wanted to later make changes to her astral home, would she have to ask the construction crew to come back and make the changes or would she have the ability to consciously alter it with her mind?

I might have a look, but my first hunch is that this is a case of barely understood symbolism. What we experience in nonphysical reality is translated by our inner senses, our skill at translating and decoding energetic experiences, and limited and filtered by our physical plane beliefs and mindset. I wouldn't take such an account as literal, and certainly with a grain of salt.

[greytraveller]

Greetings all
My comment upon limitations in the astral is that emotional baggage and religious conditioning are undoubtedly the biggest limitations. If a person goes out of body with the conviction that something Is possible Then he or she is quite likely to accomplish that thing in the astral/ethereal. Conversely if a person projects OOB with the firm belief that such and such a thing is Not possible then it is most probable that he/she will Not be able to do that thing even if shown guidance and aided by discarnate helpers.
Such reasoning must be behind the belief that people of low morale character usually end up in the lower astral realms after physical death. Even the intervention of spirit helpers and guides cannot keep these people from eventually reaching the planes that match their own levels of vibrations (= lower less enlightened thoughts).

Cheers
Grey

[Korpo]

Such reasoning must be behind the belief that people of low morale character usually end up in the lower astral realms after physical death. Even the intervention of spirit helpers and guides cannot keep these people from eventually reaching the planes that match their own levels of vibrations (= lower less enlightened thoughts).

Hello, Grey.

I don't understand what you're saying here. How is this related to what people believe?

[greytraveller]

Greetings Korpo
I am simply stating that where a person ends up in the astral after physical death is likely determined by their religious and social conditioning during physical life. Thus a person brought up in a strict religious community is apt to wind up in a very similar religious intolerant BST after death. A person heavily involved in drugs and crime while on Earth is likely to inhabit a non-physical location where similar activities take place. etc.

Regards
Grey

[dan4112]

Hello everyone and thanks for the great information! I understand that the Physical is a consensus reality that we all agree to participate in. And I gather that many places in the astral are communities of many souls of like mindset living together and there are various limitations in the astral based on beliefs. But I guess I'm really interested in the fundamentals. What is fundamentally different about the astral. So regardless of my mentally imposed limitations in the astal, what are the fundamental abilities that one has in the astral that they lack in the physical? Like telepathy for instance. Is that a fundamental ability that 99% of astral beings posses?