Thread about "demons" from another forum

[defectron]

I don't know what you've heard about angels, but from my experience they will either work with you or not. No harm there.

Well there is this story http://www.evocationmagic.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3448 , I have heard from other sources as well that Enochian angels at least can be dangerous.

There's also indirect danger, though this applies to working with any sort of entity, in that if you want it to do a task for you, if you don't make certain specifications it might fullfill the task in way that isn't how you wanted. From what I have heard entities will usually just pick the easiest way in fullfilling a task unless other wise specified and the easiest way is not always nessecerily the right way.

So overall what I'm saying is while there's alot of good rewards with this sort of thing you always need to use caution. If anyone is interested in trying to summon something I would recommend the books "summoning spirits" and "evoking eternity" as those both do a pretty good job explaining things.

[ButterflyWoman]

Just a completely random set of thoughts. Take entirely for what it's worth (which may be very little, indeed ).

Quite honestly, I don't think the purpose of angels is to answer the call and do the bidding of random humans who might summon them. Angels are pretty terrifying (note that in the Bible, the first thing angels always say to people is, "Don't be afraid!" ), and in my limited experience, they're quite businesslike and not very talkative (unless they're on a mission to talk to you, I suppose, but I've never experienced that). Generally, I tend to leave angels alone, unless they come to me on their own (and they have, on occasion), in which case, it's pretty much impossible to ignore them. Very, very compelling presence, to say the least.

But, the bottom line is, you can manifest, create, do anything you want to do, with or without the assistance of angels or demons or ghosts or anything else along those lines. My personal drive is to cut to the chase and bring it about for myself, and let the angels and demons and whomever else is out there get about their own business while I tend to mine.

[defectron]

But, the bottom line is, you can manifest, create, do anything you want to do, with or without the assistance of angels or demons or ghosts or anything else along those lines. My personal drive is to cut to the chase and bring it about for myself, and let the angels and demons and whomever else is out there get about their own business while I tend to mine.

Very true, this is what I meant that humans have the potential to be just as powerful as any of those guys. But my primary motivation in calling them is to learn how to do these things. Getting instructions from someone who knows can save alot of time.

[ButterflyWoman]

Getting instructions from someone who knows can save alot of time.

True. Assuming you can get them to tell you what you want to know. Genii, demons, elementals, and the like, are notorious for lying to you or otherwise appearing to cooperate when they aren't. Angels are more trustworthy, certainly, but my experience of them is that it can be difficult to get them to tell you what you want to know, just because they're pretty much only interested in their own tasks, and yours are of little or not consequence to them.

But, generally, I've found that through trial and error, I can figure out pretty much anything I need to know, anyway. It isn't always instantaneous, and it's not always easy, but I've found it to be true that if I seek, I find.

[poème]

Well there is this story http://www.evocationmagic.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3448 , I have heard from other sources as well that Enochian angels at least can be dangerous.

I would read such stories with discernment as malevolent beings may lie about who they are and may for instance pretend to be angels. Robert Monroe even encountered a being who pretended to be God… So I wouldn’t rely solely on a name or a title given, nor on appearance, to tell if a being is benevolent and really who he says he is.

I don't know what you've heard about angels, but from my experience they will either work with you or not. No harm there.

I agree, benevolent beings will gladly teach you or support you without any harm. They will do so freely…and for free!

Angels are pretty terrifying (note that in the Bible, the first thing angels always say to people is, "Don't be afraid!" )

I thought this one was so funny!

I think they can choose to tone down their appearance and presence if needed, precisely not to cause fear or to impress too much. They may for instance appear not too tall, simply dressed, with no bright-and-powerful-looking shining light! They also do not always give their names, quite possibly for the same reasons. I’m likely to believe that more persons than we think actually met and meet angels and archangels in the dreamstate or in projections without recognizing them consciously. I do say consciously, here, as a part of us know who they are and intuitively recognize them, but the conscious mind may come in the way and discard the info as soon as it comes in if it thinks it is impossible…

But, the bottom line is, you can manifest, create, do anything you want to do, with or without the assistance of angels or demons or ghosts or anything else along those lines.

I agree. It’s simply a choice, and I wouldn’t say that one is necessarily better than the other.

That said, for those who choose to work with other beings, in order to stay on the safe side, I think it’s a good idea to carefully examine our motives before asking a being to work with us, as the nature of our motives is likely to attract beings alike, even if we think we call an angel. It is also best not to impose our will on another being, as all have free will. Benevolent beings are not likely to respond to a command, in my opinion...

(…) they're pretty much only interested in their own tasks, and yours are of little or not consequence to them.

I do wonder about that from time to time, as I tend to think something like ``Who would I be to call an angel for my small matters? Surely, they have lots of other things to do.`` But it seems like our small matters…actually matter, more than we think they do. And it seems like they do respond, and to many and many, not just a few. They can be with you, with me and with several others all at once. Many people wouldn’t be shy to ask God (or Yahweh, Allah, The Divine, the Source, the Universe etc.) for support, and yet, unless I misunderstand, angels are different faces of the Divine, more focused aspects of God (as we are too), hence the meaning of the names of the archangels and the angels of the Kaballah for instance...

To be very honest however, I am still shy to ask, and mostly work my guides and higher selves… But it seems like I shouldn’t be shy… For instance, I have prayed St. Michael before, and he did answer. If I shouldn’t be shy, then others shouldn’t be either

[Korpo]

I agree a lot with what you wrote, poeme, very nicely put. I think it would work best if one asked an angel for something that is truly needed. I think this would yield the best response.

[ButterflyWoman]

I've never asked an angel for anything, unless the presence was already there. I mean, I've never tried to summon one or anything (I just figure they've got stuff to be doing, and it occurs to me that other entities may well appear as "an angel of light" to echo the words of St Paul).

When they have been present of their own accord, they've always been extremely businesslike, clearly had something to do and places to be, and they not at all open to chatting with me about the answers to life, the universe, and everything. Perhaps it's different for other people, but that's my own experience of them, so I generally leave them be to go about their business.

If they want to come and deal with me, that's fine, but I generally prefer to rely on my own resources (and if an angel has something to say about it, well, they're welcome to do so ).

As for other beings (elementals, genii, ghosts and assorted spirits, etc.), I pretty much leave them alone, too. I just can't see any reason to muck around with them, particularly when they can reportedly be extremely dangerous. I'll just do it myself and save myself the hassle and the potential trouble.

Just my experience/opinion. Take for what it's worth, including, possibly, "nothing at all".

[defectron]

True. Assuming you can get them to tell you what you want to know. Genii, demons, elementals, and the like, are notorious for lying to you or otherwise appearing to cooperate when they aren't. Angels are more trustworthy, certainly, but my experience of them is that it can be difficult to get them to tell you what you want to know, just because they're pretty much only interested in their own tasks, and yours are of little or not consequence to them.

It is true entities will sometimes lie, but I don't think you can place the fault entirely on the entity here. Based on what I have heard, you tend to get better results when the entity is approached in a certain sort of way and alot of people just don't do this. For example say some dude calls up a demon and demands that it tell him something in the name of god or he'll zap it with his blasting rod. Now imagine some guy just comes up to you on the street demanding something from you or he'll zap you with a taser. It's the same deal, except even more so here because some nobody who thinks he's better then this ancient entity is trying to order them around with no respect. Of course it'll do everything it can to turn on you if you do that, which alot of people will do. But based on what I have heard from people who have had alot of experience in this you'll get alot better results if you treat the entity with respect. I personally found this to be the case too as I took their advice in interacting with King Kandazi and so far have gotten good results.

Though that being said, there do exist some truly malevolent entities you don't want to work with no matter what. My advice is before you try to embark in any interactions with en entity is to ask your spirit guide if doing so is a good idea. If they say yes, then you should be in the clear.

I would read such stories with discernment as malevolent beings may lie about who they are and may for instance pretend to be angels. Robert Monroe even encountered a being who pretended to be God… So I wouldn’t rely solely on a name or a title given, nor on appearance, to tell if a being is benevolent and really who he says he is.

True, it may not have been an angel, but my point still stands. My point being regardless of what you are trying to call, you should be careful, because even if you guys are right in that there's no danger whatsoever in dealing with angels, there's still the possibility the wrong person could get your message.

[ButterflyWoman]

My point being regardless of what you are trying to call, you should be careful, because even if you guys are right in that there's no danger whatsoever in dealing with angels, there's still the possibility the wrong person could get your message.

I agree with that, except, I'm not necessarily convinced that there is no danger involved with dealing with angels. They're pretty powerful, and can be downright terrifying. Are they harmful? Well, they can be, according to most angel lore. Michael carries a great big sword, according to all the traditions. I don't think he'd be likely to cut you in two with it or anything, but an ultra-powerful being with a sword is not something to take lightly, IMHO. Caution is always well-advised.

[Genesis]

Pardon my ignorance, but do any of you know the "role" of an Angel? ButterflyWoman has mentioned that she often got the impression that Angels were busy so she didn't bother them. But what were they so busy doing?