Are all dreams OBE's? Just not as aware?

[AstralCody]

Alot of people say this, and I wonder myself if this is true or not. I always thought a dream was your subconscious mind. Not a astral projections with very low awareness. I was wondering. Could it be both? It's interesting because some dreams have meaning to them, and can be real. It's nothing like and AP or OBE though.

What do you think? I wonder if maybe sometimes dreams are just your subconscious, and other times they are really low awareness projections. I do not know... I just really don't like to dream. All my dreams are vivid, violent, make no sense, and last it seems forever. It's the exact opposite with a projection. I wish I could have those every night.

What do you think?

[SoulSail]

There are as many opinions on this one as there are people who've taken up the question. And while there are very knowledgable people here that may provide answers closer to what you've asked, I believe that dreams play a specific role: that of helping us gauge our level of awareness every single night we're alive.

The mechanics and constructs behind them aren't important. Whether dreams are generated in an OBE state or in organic matter or somewhere in between, I believe the role they serve is to help us essentially "wake up" by giving us a chance, every night, to increase our awareness and overcome our innate nature--that of a sleepwalker.

So, when you are dreaming (not lucidly), your dream self accepts the dreamscape (no matter how unusual) for waking reality. Take it one step farther-- when you actually are awake, is it possible you're mistaking that reality for something up a level as well? And how many levels are there? No matter. Your job is to ascend them all, and you've got forever to do so.

Before I get too esoteric, the point I'm making here is that you've asked a fair question, but shift it up a bit so you can see the bigger point in it all: whether you are refining the microscope so you can increase lucidity and wake up in your dreams, or you're refining the telescope so you can explore "out there," you're tuning yourself toward the exact same goal: vivid awareness. What we don't want to do is get hung up on the details to how the dream state comes about in the first place. (Or we DO want to get hung up there and become a dream researcher and have a very cool job!)

Some Buddhist traditions say that implicit in the term "Awakened One," or "Enlightened One" is the truth that a sentient being is always aware--master of dream states and waking states alike. To "awaken" literally means one holds awareness all the time.

Focus there.


Ok, that's my big rambling half-answer for the night. Hope that makes some sense.


Soul

[SiriusTraveler]

Soul, you are one wize individual. I like reading your toughts here!

[Korpo]

Hello, AstralCody.

In the theosophic model as interpreted by Kurt it kind of comes together:

When most people dream they end up on the astral plane. So technically it could be called an astral projection, but it is usually not a lucid one, nor one with any degree of freedom.

What happens next is that the unresolved desires and issues attract a dream environment to help release/resolve them. This dream environment is like a bubble cutting you off from the wider astral plane, so in terms of effect it is not an astral projection as you experience mostly your own dream world.

This cut-off dream world has to do with your subconscious, as what attracts the dream environment is the whole of your energy body configuration, not necessarily just what you are conscious of. I'd say the process is rather similar to what happens on the physical plane, where your inner makeup also attracts the reality you experience, however much quicker.

Experiences on the middle and higher astral planes develop once the most coarse desires and issues have been released. This promotes one up into experiencing the higher subplanes, which is a less cathartic experience, and more cooperative. Simulations may arise to train the energy body. One might from time to time get to explore more of the astral plane then. Over time also the lucidity level might rise. This is usually where one could talk of astral projection, as it is more clearly on the astral plane, one experiences more freedom of movement and more lucidity.

In this sense, dreams are astral experiences, but many may be of a mostly cathartic nature. Astral projections are more likely when there are less issues to resolve/process and hence some space for exploring beyond the Dream Zone.

The way you describe it, your dreams do help you release stuff. You could see your dreams as being instrumental to having the astral projections you do have. You could see them as effort spent for getting your mind clear enough to have those projections.

[SoulSail]

Dearest Korpo,

I hope cleaning up after my mush-laden, wordy replies isn't too exhausting.

Now I must confess a great sin:

I have fallen into a bad habit because of you, a habit were I take liberties with my replies here, knowing full well mind you, that Korpo will come in behind me and with the mop of discernment.

Ich habe nie erfahren, das tue ich?

You're a good man.

Soul

[CFTraveler]

I've been busy today and this is my first look today at the forums, but I'd swear that I've seen and answered this question before, yet I don't see my answer. Which is not necessary, but it makes me wonder what reality I've been in lately.

[summersolstice]

This is why I keep a journal, not only of my significant dreams, but also of significant meditation experiences. By looking through them I can see common threads and perhaps learn a little about their meanings. I believe this to be one of the more important tools in personal growth.

[CFTraveler]

Well, since I think I already gave a long-winded answer to this somewhere, and everyone gave amazing answers (you don't really need mine) I'll put it in a nutshell:
All dreams are projections to the nonphysical dimensions (mind being nonphysical, as brain being physical), and we classify them as we perceive them- dreams as projections of our subconscious, and APs as projections to the more collective areas of the nonphysical- and an OBE by definition is an experience of being out of the body, (destination may vary), I'd say that not all dreams are OBEs, but all of them are projections.

[Korpo]

Hello, SoulSail.

I had the impression we gave two answers pointing at two different things.

[SoulSail]

Hello, SoulSail.

I had the impression we gave two answers pointing at two different things.

We did. Unfortunately my poor humor seldom conveys over the wire.

I have a habit of offering "answers" that may or may not relate much to what was asked, and part of that habit is the anticipation that someone with more insight will indeed get to the point after me.

I always enjoy your perspective.


How's the weather over there?


Soul