Niburu, Aliens and Solar System thoughts

[PauliEffect]

It has been proposed that there should be a 10th planet in the solar system,
this planet should somehow be related to aliens and Niburu should be
undetected. At the time when Niburu was brought into media, there may
still have been ideas around a 10th planet. Now we know so much more
and to my knowledge there are only 8 real planets and several dwarf-planets.

A real planet will clear its path in space over time. For example if Pluto and
Neptune will ever meet (which is possible), Pluto will be swallowed and the
path of Neptune will be almost the same as before.

A dwarf-planet will be able to shape itself by gravitational forces, which a big
rock has trouble to do. This means that a dwarf-planet will at least become
elipsoid by the gravitational and rotational force, but not necessarily
completely spherical.

To compare Pluto and the Moon, we know that the Moon has about 1 %
of Earth's mass. Pluto in turn has only 20 % of the Moon's mass. So it's
clear that Pluto is a significantly smaller object than our (small) Earth.

The biggest moon (Charon) of Pluto has such a mass that the combination
of Pluto-Charon could be considered to be a double planet as its unclear
what object rotates around the other, but by current definition Charon is
considered to be a moon of Pluto.

Eris, the biggest dwarf-planet has only 30 % of our Moons mass, so if
our Moon would ever break free from Earth, the Moon would be our Solar
System's biggest (?) dwarf-planet.

A few moons around Jupiter are even bigger than our Moon. Ganymedes
is 2 times as large as our Moon. Ganymedes has 2 % the mass of Earth.

Ceres may be one of the smallest dwarf-planet of them all, but it still has
more fresh water on its surface than exists fresh water on all of the Earth.


The planets and dwarf-planets (dashed -) are to date 13 in number, with
some large possible dwarf-planets (asterisked *). Moons in parenthesis
are known moons to date. From inside out:

Mercury
Venus
Earth (1 moon)
Mars (2 moons)
- Ceres
Jupiter (67 moons)
Saturn (62 moons)
Uranus (27 moons)
Neptune (13 moons)
- Pluto (5 moons)
* Orcus (1 moon)
* Salacia (1 moon)
* Quaoar (1 moon)
* Ixion
* Varuna
- Haumea (2 moons)
- Makemake
- Eris (1 moon)
* "2007 OR₁₀"
* Sedna


It has been noted that the possible number of dwarf-planets can be
in the range from 200 to 2000 inside the Öpik Cloud. Also note
that almost all the dwarf-planets have strong elliptic orbits, which
may alter their relative distance from the Sun (and each others
orbits).

What is worth to note is that not all planet orbits have been completely
cleared of smaller objects. Jupiter and other big planets still have objects
which move in and out of their orbital unstable Lagrangian points.


It should also be noted that there are regions in space with several objects,
which can drop out of orbit, either by gravitational pull when other objects
come close by or by direct collision with other large objects. I think that to
date the areas are divided into the following:

- Trojans (objects in a given planets orbit, usually at a Lagrangian point)
- Asteroid Belt (where Ceres orbits between Mars and Jupiter)
- Edgeworth Belt (where Pluto and Eris are located, outside of Neptune)
- Scattered Disc (elliptic-orbit objects sometimes outside the "well-defined" Edgeworth Belt)
- Detached Objects (objects completely outside the Edgeworth Belt)
- Öpik Cloud (objects further outside the Edgeworth Belt in a non-disc (ball) shaped region)


Of these regions it's clear that the Trojans and the Asteriod Belt are the most
easy to study as they are closest and most stationary to us. It's also clear that
the definition of a planet is not clear, as the Trojans may be in the same orbit
forever, unless they drop out of their Lagrangian point and collide with the planet
as Theia once did with Earth (due to Theia's large size).

What also is interesting is that several Trojans move in and out of their Lagrangian
points, specially those around Jupiter. If such a Trojan is exposed for a strong gravitational
pull and is _not_ swallowed by the planet, the Trojan will get a strong elliptical orbit,
possible ending up in the way of Earth.

Earth has at the current date only one Trojan and it's fairly stable in its unstable point,
probably due to its small mass.

There are also other objects flying by Earth's orbit, sometimes crossing it, like the
so called Earth's Second Moon, but these objects also seem fairly stable.
---

Now, for a "planet Niburu" to sneak in and disturb or collide with Earth, it has to
produce some kind of gravitational effect on other planets, which would make us
detect it fairly early.

This means that Niburu, if it is planet-size big, either has to arrive at a sick speed,
so we're unable to detect it in time, defying some regular laws of physics, or it has
to be too small to be a planet, probably not even a dwarf-planet.

Even if it arrives from above or below the Solar System's rotational plane, it will
produce gravitational effects fairly early if it's a planet.


Planet X - the 10th planet

To get some kind of feeling for how little mass is needed to make a disturbance,
we can look at Wikipedia on this subject. There were thought that there existed
a 10th planet beyond Pluto due to Neptune's strange orbit.

But when the Voyager satellite passed by Neptune, it was discovered that the
mass of Neptune had been measured wrongly by 0.5 %, and the corrected mass
adjusted the calculations and removed the possibility for a 10th planet.

A planet Niburu is unlikely to exist, unless it is hidden or forcefully pushed into
the Solar System by advanced aliens.

[mick]

Useful points regarding the claims that prevail for Niburu/planet X.

Now, for a "planet Niburu" to sneak in and disturb or collide with Earth, it has to
produce some kind of gravitational effect on other planets, which would make us
detect it fairly early.

This means that Niburu, if it is planet-size big, either has to arrive at a sick speed,
so we're unable to detect it in time, defying some regular laws of physics, or it has
to be too small to be a planet, probably not even a dwarf-planet.

Even if it arrives from above or below the Solar System's rotational plane, it will
produce gravitational effects fairly early if it's a planet.

Last year I had joined a forum on some ones recommendation just as the Comet Elenin was detected and made public. It was a small comet detected by an amateur astronomer using data acquired from a robotic telescope based in New Mexico. His name being Elenin was assigned to the comet. For reasons unknown this Comet promptly become the harbinger for all things. A search for elenin will provide pages of sites explaining just what it all means or not as it turned out, these included responsibility for all earthquakes occurring during that period including the Japan and Chile large earthquakes. Organisations like Project Camelot leapt in to hold forth, on what it all meant, Hoagland joined in on that and made claims such as it was piloted. Then were claims that the ELE in the name was abbreviation for "Extinction Level Event" and that there was no such person named Elenin. Others claimed that when it was positioned between the Sun and Earth, the Earth would stop rotating for three days. Part of this was that either Elenin was Niburu in disguise or it was following just behind, failing that, it was being followed by a Dwarf star which may or may not be Niburu anyway. Of course, channellers were rushing to provide confirmation. I made a similar case to that presented by yourself with limited success as the forum owner wanted it all to be true but a few others did think for themselves. Others, it seems, had a need to defend Hoagland against such scurrilous attacks. During its closest point to the Sun Elenin broke up continuing on its way as largely a dust cloud. So ended that show and the various sources of that saga seamlessly moved on to the next (pseudo) event...

For entertainment purposes only, as mentioned, a search for Elenin will provide reams of links to doomer sites and the gory details of what was supposed to have happened last year.

I left the forum in question.

Also there is a NASA project WISE that is scanning for large dim objects and there look to be none that close.
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/WI...e20120608.html

[PauliEffect]

Thanks Mike, that was an interesting description of those events.

I found the following nice animation of the Jupiter trojans (Trojans, Greeks and Hildas).
There are several million trojans somewhere related to Jupiter, most are in stable
orbits over long time, but sometimes, some break off and head in other directions.

The Hildas (red dots) are the ones going around in the "inner"circle. Also notice that
the Asteroid Belt is even further inwards, but not included in the animation. There are
lots of asteroid fragments in the size of 1 km which can go in strange directions.

The trojan "Greeks" are the green dots moving in front of Jupiter, the green dots behind
in Jupiters orbit are the trojan "Trojans".

It would be possible to disguise an alien spaceship as a Jupiter trojan.

It will be very difficult to hide a Niburu size planet so close to the Solar System.

Your NASA link was quite interesting, too.

[mick]

The animation is fascinating, I left it running for while. The question of a nuts and bolts presence either on Earth or at a distance is a tough one as far as convincing evidence goes. I have been in a couple of organisations that look at such things and in some respects the evidence is thin but there are enduring accounts that keep the door open, at least, that is my opinion. The abduction thing is a compelling element and have met with a number of people that were seeking answers and indeed often also escape from their experiences. I took an interest in the abduction arena because of what some call the overlap between some UFO/Abduction experiences and the experiences of some that pin the source in the paranormal. It is possible to draw some common threads if standing back a little. Also there are the observations of some in an astral sight context that also view "aliens" without the benefit of the nuts and bolts physical aspects.

I also noted at the page for the animation a link to an article outlining a possible breakthrough in the design of a warp drive, a method by which the power requirements can be greatly reduced and maybe brought into the realm of practicality.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09...ks_warp_drive/

Having mentioned comets, this one could be interesting and possibly spectacular. Plus if the past is a guide might well spawn a few claims.

http://www.space.com/17762-newfound-...y-c2012s1.html

Edit: here is the JPL animation for the comet path.
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi?sst...og=0;cad=0#orb

[Korpo]

About Ceres:

contains 200 million cubic kilometres of water, which is more than the amount of fresh water on the Earth

(from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceres_%28dwarf_planet%29)

Emphasis by me.

[Korpo]

There has been some hypothesis floating around that a large gas planet like Jupiter in the outer system might be needed to enable life within the inner zone of the solar system, as it conveniently picks up space debris drifting into the inner system. Just looking at your video of the Trojans seems to lend some credibility to this.

[mick]

There has been some hypothesis floating around that a large gas planet like Jupiter in the outer system might be needed to enable life within the inner zone of the solar system, as it conveniently picks up space debris drifting into the inner system. Just looking at your video of the Trojans seems to lend some credibility to this.

This function is also attributed to Jupiter and Saturn. Still happens quite a lot, the recent best known perhaps is the demise of Shoemaker Levy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_S...E2%80%93Levy_9