Why is this seemingly acceptable?

Donald McGlinn · 11th October 2012, 01:52 AM

I am blown away that snapping off someone's arm and displaying it in church is somehow acceptable. I find it morbid and disturbing what is done in the name of religion.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-1...-relic/4306244

**CFTraveler** · 11th October 2012, 02:18 AM

This is fairly normal in Catholic custom- I don't know about any other religion that has saints (Anyone know if they do something similar in Tibetan Buddhism? They have so many similar beliefs, I wonder if they have relic worship) but in Catholicism a Saint's body part is 'special' and is probably thought to be as magical as the person was in life. So it really doesn't surprise me, as it's a carry over from medieval times, and all kinds of things were acceptable in medieval times, as you probably know.

p.s. It's not done "in the name of religion", it's done because of belief in supernatural powers. It's a totally different thing.

**ButterflyWoman** · 11th October 2012, 03:14 AM

This custom goes back to Rome, and before that, Greece. Orthodox Christianity is a very, very Roman religion. The veneration of physical remains of saints (heroes, in the Greek custom, which the Romans adopted, but which later became saints) is ancient.

I don't know if any other religions do this. Some have saints and heroes and so on, but I don't know about the veneration of physical remains, to be honest. I can't think of any just offhand. Might be a fun thing to research, though.

**DarkChylde** · 11th October 2012, 03:56 AM

Originally Posted by CFTraveler

This is fairly normal in Catholic custom- I don't know about any other religion that has saints (Anyone know if they do something similar in Tibetan Buddhism? They have so many similar beliefs, I wonder if they have relic worship)

In Islam we don't "worship" relics directly but there is practice that itself directly translates to "Holy Veneration".
We have many many saints , patrons , prophets , sufi babas , peers mureeds and disciples wherein whose items and relics (locks of hair , apparel , sandals , nails , staffs et al) receive utmost deification and included in many parts of different ceremonies (its a very little known fact that other than 5 times worth of daily prayers Islam is actually a very ritual based religion).
A small example would be that one of my grandmothers "most venerated" rosary has beads are that are made of clay where Muhammad had once resided in Mecca , it "taken out" once a year on Muhammad's birthday where one is allowed to press it to ones cheek and forehead as a part of larger "ritual".

Personally if you compare this to other activities of faith (euchrist to name one) this comes somewhat more innocuous.

**SiriusTraveler** · 11th October 2012, 06:01 AM

To me its just strange to watch a rotten arm laying there. Its dead meat in a glass case. Why worship it? I mean they too believe in life after death - hence the soul etc. My point is that if they believe in life after death and that the spirit leaves the body, why worship a dead arm.
Dont get me wrong, I get why they do what they do but to me its not worth much looking at an old arm and sometimes I just need to question stuff like this.

IA56 · 11th October 2012, 06:20 AM

I don´t eighder understand this kind of worshipping, but I have never understood ritual thing´s so to speak.
I am happy I can believe what feels right to me, and I try as much as I can to live and let live so to speak, everyone is to take responsibillity of it´s own thinking and belief, and as far as I know, different things goes on in different places, and because I do not understand don´t mean it is wrong per se, and off course I wonder too...WHY....and I hope some day to get an answere...I hope that day to understand the answere I get

...so I can keep it as knowledge in my core...and grow.

BUT...

I also hope that knowing will help me be in and practis PUL....as I know ....LOVE is also to put limits what is not healthy ...and I am thinking if this kind of worshipping is healthy...and if not...then it will end....eventually.

**ButterflyWoman** · 11th October 2012, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by SiriusTraveler

To me its just strange to watch a rotten arm laying there. Its dead meat in a glass case. Why worship it?

Well, I feel the same way. But I wasn't raised in a traditionally Orthodox tradition. If I had been, it would probably make more symbolic sense. To me, yeah, it's a rotting piece of flesh. The toe bone of St Whatisface shouldn't have any more mystical power than anything else, but it comes from very ancient times when the idea that matter might be endued with godly or magical power made more sense. The ancient mind (and the Medieval one) was a good deal more mystically inclined, I think.

**SiriusTraveler** · 11th October 2012, 08:06 AM

Yeah, exactly my thoughts to. That explains a great deal about why.

**Beekeeper** · 11th October 2012, 08:58 AM

So am I the only one who laughed out loud? And I teach in a Australian Catholic school. If the damned thing toured its way to our place, I'd have a hard time containing myself, even though St Francis is one of my favourites as far as saints go!

Strangely, something from my girlhood popped into memory today. We were always reminded of the saint Maria Goretti, who was deemed an appropriate role model for little girls because she resisted attempted rape and was subsequently stabbed so many times that she would not recover. Then she had the good nature to forgive her attacker. I'm scratching my head now wondering why being a victim of attempted rape makes you a saint and why anyone would want to hold up such a saint for little girls to venerate.

IA56 · 11th October 2012, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Beekeeper

So am I the only one who laughed out loud? And I teach in a Australian Catholic school. If the damned thing toured its way to our place, I'd have a hard time containing myself, even though St Francis is one of my favourites as far as saints go!

Strangely, something from my girlhood popped into memory today. We were always reminded of the saint Maria Goretti, who was deemed an appropriate role model for little girls because she resisted attempted rape and was subsequently stabbed so many times that she would not recover. Then she had the good nature to forgive her attacker. I'm scratching my head now wondering why being a victim of attempted rape makes you a saint and why anyone would want to hold up such a saint for little girls to venerate.

I feel urged to say something here, I am sorry it will not come out right, but I will give it a try.....

Mostly all this kind of 0ld Knowledge what is not written down properly with the time will "fall out" the core and it leves the opportunity for missunderstanding and falsly way to interpret the meaning of the happening or it´s message...

To forgive is the key here...as I was told....to forgive all the way to eternity....it does not mean to forgive the action or the act...but the person who did it....there are so many actings what is nessessary for the evolution of the actor what is not easy to understand at earth level...but make´s much more sense at other levels so to speak.....

And when there is left out the outermost purpose or meaning it is not understandable at all..because all levels has it´s own purpose and truth....but the outermost one of the truths is to forgive everything ...and this is a very tough to do on the deepest level of our subconsius, but when this is done at the deepest level of us...then it will change even natur too...and healing happens at all levels...and this is therefore so important to understand but very hard to tell in right words to be understood right.... I am afraid I will be missunderstood but I dared to try .......