(...continued.)

Complicated Questions...

At some early moment I begin with question about Consciousness.

I ask: "If human Consciousness leaves matter, will physical matter still
exist?"

Pierre Marcel responds: "Yes, physical matter will still exist, even if
human Consciousness leaves matter."


I ask: "Does there exist some _other_ Consciousness in matter, some
Consciousness which is not human?"

Pierre Marcel responds: "Yes, there exists another Consciousness in
physical matter, Consciousness which is different to Human Consciousness."


Hmm..

I add more questions related to Human Consciousness and this _other_
Consciousness in physical matter. This is the result of my questions:


There seem to exist many different types of Consciousnesses.

Eventually I get the response about this _other_ Consciousness, which we
can call Low-Level-Consciousness (Low-Lev-Consc), that it's a quite different
kind of Consciousness.

I didn't ask about animals, but I just assume now that human
Consciousness and animal Consciousness are (almost?) the same.

Consciousness of humans is a certain kind of Consciousness. Things are
complicated. There are different kinds of Consciousness and they just
can't be put into the same basket. You just can't say that all is Data,
all is just Consciousness.

I got the impression that the Consciousness of for example rocks or
stones is different than this Low-Lev-Consc. I also got the impression
that Low-Lev-Consc had a very low degree of awareness, but I'm not
completely sure.


Low-Lev-Consc is part of all sub-atomic particles down to the lowest level.
I now understand why my concept of Consciousness was faulty at the
Saturday PE session, because I had assumed that there only existed
on type of Consciousness, because that's how Campbell and other
important authors have stated the existence of Consciousness.

I ask Pierre Marcel: "Can human Consciousness or a similar sort of
Consciousness move Low-Lev-Consc out of physical matter?"

Pierre Marcel responds: "No, we can't move Low-Lev-Consc, we can
only interact with Low-Lev-Consc, to a degree we can communicate with
Low-Lev-Consc. But we can't make it move."

I ask: "Will physical matter still exist if Low-Lev-Consc leaves
matter?"

Pierre Marcel, with some intensity: "It's not really a valid
question. You should view things another way. Low-Lev-Consc will
most likely never move out. Low-Lev-Consc is in matter."

I'm puzzled.

That was not a direct answer. I repeat my question several times, and each
time get a kind of rejection. I almost reach a level where I think my
question is as strange as asking if physical matter will still exist
if electrical charge moves out of all electrons.

But I persist.

I say: "You have to trust me. I'm sure that this question is important.
You have to answer. In this particular case, for me in physical reality,
it's important to get the answer. I sure I'm making the right decision
when I seek the answer. So, will physical matter still exist if Low-Lev-Consc leaves matter? Will it still exist?"

Pierre Marcel: "Well... We... I, don't know what to say. You want answer on
a question which could be formulated differently."

Somewhere around here, there could be a little hesitation from the guides'
side, not only because I might not understand the answer, but maybe because
I could create a belief system as well? It could get a lot of peoples'
glasses even more colored, instead of clearing up things?

I say: "I'm sure about my judgement. I will make the best of your answer.
So again, will physical matter still exist if Low-Lev-Consc leaves
matter?"

Pierre Marcel: "No. The physical universe will cease to exist as you
know it. But this will most likely never happen, so our response is
invalid. It's an invalid scenario. But if Low-Lev-Consc leaves matter,
residue will be left. Let us show you.


Matter.

I see a piece (?) of matter.

I see the whole universe or a sub-atomic particle. To see the world in
a grain of sand...

This piece, sub-atomic particle, whatever... I watch as Low-Lev-Consc leaves
matter. Low-Lev-Consc moves upwards like a cloud. What is left of physical
matter now breaks apart into two big chunks of stuff made out of
non-matter or some similar "substance".


Jeez..!

I react to this.

I had accepted Campbells claim that everything is just Data, Consciousness.
I had accepted that matter was left unchanged when Consciousness abandoned
matter.

But this..!? I hadn't anticipated this result at all.

I literally shake in whole my body. No puny pre-OBE vibrations. I get
real physical shakings in my hole body and partly shake out of my deep
session state as I look up into my bedroom ceiling as I jog and my
head physically reacts.


Physical matter will break if Low-Lev-Consc leaves matter.

I ask if our scientists will be able to detect this Low-Lev-Consc. I get
a collective laughing answer; scientists will not be able to detect
Low-Lev-Consc with current scientific methods used today.

Physical matter is made of a special type of Consciousness, Low-Lev-Consc
_and_ some other kind of "stuff". If Low-Lev-Consc leaves matter, something
is still left, some residue(s).

I wonder if any of the other PE participants got that? Anyway, they have
probably helped me get that answer, as I otherwise only would have gotten
dumbed down answers in Yes/No format.

Thank you fellow PE participants, both known and unknown!

---


Cleaning Up

There are some other questions left.

I ask: "If Low-Lev-Consc leaves matter and this residue is left as the
result, will 3-dimensional space cease to exist?"

Pierre Marcel says: "No, 3-dimensional space will still exist with
the 'residue', as you call it."

I continue: "This answer which you have given me, is in conflict with
Campbell's claim that all is Data only, Consciousness which is digital in
its nature. The TBC. What do you have to say about that?"

Pierre Marcel says: "Too simple. That model is too simple. Reality
is more complicated."


I felt sort of stoo-peed having been prepared to accept such a simple
model of reality. I wondered how much my colored glasses had compromised
Pierre Marcel's answers. Was he human at all?

I say: "You could be an alien with different background than me. Are
you really human?

Pierre Marcel responded with some pun: "I'm more human than you."


He made me laugh.

Well, that was a response.

But maybe he is true? Maybe my I-There or incarnation have more alien
elements to it, then Pierre has ever had? After all, I interact with
aliens at times.

---


The OBE Question

I'm a little tired, but continue with the second Main Question.

Why do many people have problems doing conscious OBEs and how can we
improve OBE ability? I first ask Pierre Marcel the question and he
just says that OBEs are "energy dependent". He tries to explain by
showing me spherical lumps with lots of knobs and he say that these
lumps symbolize energy centers. But I don't really feel helped.

I repeat my question and am suddenly transferred back to Robert Monroe.

He laughs, and also tells me that he is not really good at answering
that question. He was just good at doing OBEs, not on training people.

I almost get the impression that Monroe feels a little embarrassed to
have to answer my second Main Question.

I ask if we can train and improve our OBE ability, and get the response
from Monroe that we can't train OBE ability on our own. We have to get
help, either by having a purpose with doing OBEs, or we find a need for
doing OBEs. We can set intent to get better at OBEs and we will maybe
get help, but not really if there is no purpose with getting better
OBE ability.

But if we already are born with well developed OBE ability, well then
we have that ability and everything is fine.

We can initiate any attempt to improve OBE ability, but we will have
to rely on nonphysical Helpers to improve. That will take time.

Many answers from Monroe related to the second Main Question were a
little unclear to me.


Eventually I decide to quit.

I thank Monroe and move to the Garden and Park. I say bye-bye to everyone.
When I come to Campbell, he responds: "You're welcome."

---


This was a long report. Much was perhaps not so useful but I included it
out of completeness reason to the interested reader.