how can we prove the psychic phenominon?

[BDeye]

I wish I could feel Like ButterflyWoman, but in truth I don't think I'm quite there yet. There are a few people whose opinion greatly matters to me and value there counters to my current outlook. Sometimes a non aggressive challenge to an idea is healthy and it has helped me reevaluate ideas I may have become too attached to. So long as the brass knuckles are left at the door..

[Energize]

I completely agree, I am trying so many things to heal myself and expand my mind and all the astral comes with it. Instead I have to bottle it up and listen to the everyday stuff that people talk about during get togethers. It's nice to see people but I lack a depth and meaning. Perhaps it's just my selfish hedonistic side but I just want to talk about me I feel that for the first time in a long time maybe ever that I have something interesting to contribute but I can't as I will appear way off key. Thank god for the Internet.

I think that for most people, they are stuck in a very narrow concept of what they are and what reality is. The daily routine, watching the football, going to work, going to the pub. That's it, from horizon to horizon! When you bring up esoteric subjects with people that have narrow views, it's so outside their frame of reference that to them, you sound a little goofy or gullible.

This used to drive me crazy, especially when I was younger and desperately searching for answers. Not only was I scared that they might be right, and this drudgery was really all there was, but I had no avenue to ask questions. So I turned to books. Over time, as my knowledge increased, my urgent need to seek people out and speak with them about esoteric matters diminished.

Last year I was at a house warming party. I was getting quite inebriated. One of the people I spoke to was this guy who said he had studied a course in parapsychology for years, at some university or other. I thought "Yahoo! Finally someone who is interested in something other than football teams!". Turns out that after completing his course, he came to the conclusion that absolutely none of it was true - not any of it. Not souls, hauntings, UFO's, psychic abilities, etc. etc., you name it. Totally convinced anything to do with the mysteries was complete hogwash. We proceeded to drunkenly argue for the rest of the evening, so I guess I finally did get to discuss things with someone at last. Sigh.

At the time, I felt the flickering of those old negative emotions - maybe he's right, and it's all nonsense, and I'm on some gullible fools errand. The positive thing was, that I think it was around that time I decided to seek out experiences that would verify the truth of what I had been reading about for years...that there is more to life. So I guess I have him to thank for my current pursuit of an astral projection experience!

[ButterflyWoman]

I think that for most people, they are stuck in a very narrow concept of what they are and what reality is.

This continues more or less indefinitely, too. There are plenty of people who think they're "very spiritual" but who actually have a limited idea of reality. They think that because their view of reality includes non-standard and/or supernatural extras, they're somehow "more aware", but they're actually just in a slightly different reality box. (Note: I'm not referring to any specific person, and I don't want anyone reading this to think I might mean them, because I don't. This is a general observation, based on many years of hanging around religious, supernatural, metaphysical, and similar communities, online and off.)

This used to drive me crazy, especially when I was younger and desperately searching for answers.

Me, too. But now I know there are no answers, because there are no questions, and nobody else can experience my reality and tell me about it, anyway. (Oooh, there's that bad wannabe Zen mastery babble again. Sorry. Can't seem to help it. It's not intentional. )

Not only was I scared that they might be right

And THIS is the reason that people sometimes fight so strongly against opposing ideas. Unfortunately, resistance just leads to more of the same, because energy put into any idea, though, belief, etc just powers it up more and causes it to keep happening in your reality.

maybe he's right, and it's all nonsense

In HIS reality, I'm sure it is nonsense. But what happens in other peoples' realities stays in other peoples' realities. You only have to adopt their stuff if you want to.

For what it's worth, though, I went through years and years of this kind of agonising and self-doubt. I called it "tail chasing". I have a figurine in my curio cabinet of a baby dragon with its tail in its mouth (yes, like a cute puppy, but it's a dragon), and I got it during a period of very intense self-doubt and reality-questioning. Sometimes when I look at it now I can't help but smile. That used to be me...

[BDeye]

ButterflyWoman are you familiar with Robert Anton Wilson?.

[ButterflyWoman]

The name rings a bell... *goes off to see what Google has to say*

Ohhh, yes. Scifi author. Haven't read any of his work, though. I have read rather a lot of Philip K. Dick, though (I don't know if the censor is going to let me say that... we'll see ). PKD wrote a LOT of "reality bending" stuff. I read his works and thought, "Yeah, I know what he's trying to say." He was definitely a mystic, though I don't know how well he understood that. A lot of people, possibly also himself, attributed his visions and odd views to drug use, but he was an amphetamine addict and as far as I'm aware, speed doesn't turn you into a mystic...

[BDeye]

Yeah I'll carefully avoid the whole drug angle of it, but he had some very interesting ideas about reality tunnels. Although copious amounts of any narcotic may produce novel ideas..

[Sinera]

Yeah I'll carefully avoid the whole drug angle of it, but he had some very interesting ideas about reality tunnels. Although copious amounts of any narcotic may produce novel ideas..

many musicians and other kinds of artists are known to have used all different kinds of drugs through history in their creations, some astonishing results came to be in existence

on a sidenote: maybe we should write instead of ♥♥♥♥♥ now: "that bearded Dick" to avoid ceonsoring and yet we know who we're talking about ....

[BDeye]

many musicians and other kinds of artists are known to have used all different kinds of drugs through history in their creations, some astonishing results came to be in existence[QUOTE Volgerle]

Yeah but I thought that talk of drugs was discouraged so I moved away from it.

[ButterflyWoman]

Drug talk is discouraged, but it's a very fine line. You're allowed to mention drugs, I mean, the taking of drugs is a fact of human existence. But the promotion of drugs, illicit or otherwise, is not allowed for various legal reasons (this is Robert's rule, by the way; the mods would probably feel comfortable with some kinds of drug talk, I mean, most of us grew up in the 60s and 70s, yanno? )

So it's pretty close to the line now, and I don't want to be all moderator in your face, but let's not go over the line and advocate the taking of drugs for recreational or spiritual or creative purposes, m'kay?

But the fact remains that Philip K. Dick ("dick" is apparently not in the censorship file ) was an amphetamine addict, and that is NOT a good thing, and I definitely do not recommend the taking of speed, nor of any other drug unless your doctor prescribes it and you feel it's in your best interest to take that prescribed drug. (There. I think that should be okay. If not, CFT will step in and clear her throat and then we're all in trouble. ).

[BDeye]

No worries, cool.