With a lot of practice it is possible to maintain a robust altered state of consciousness while also allowing thought words. In the same manner, it is possible for an advanced practitioner to energy altered states while still thinking thought words. This relates to how it is possible, with practice, to induce altered states while standing and walking.

For advanced practitioners, it is a matter of choice to allow thought words or not. See the Deep Thinking Creative practice at the end.

However, this should not be considered as a shortcut, as it is necessary to learn and practice how to hold the mind clear.

Your problems should ease if you begin learning to induce and hold trance while moving and walking, as this will make your altered state much more robust. This will allow you to withstand high energy movement sensations and phenomena more easily.

So, basically, thought words are only a problem if they break your altered state, or if they stop you going deeper. You will find that too many thought words will erode your altered state and or stop you going deeper.

This is all a matter of progressive regular practices.

OBE and Lucid Dreaming are gradients of each other. OBE has many levels, from deep real time OBE to high astral OBE. LD is technically (to my thinking) a projection of the mental body. But real time OBE also contains some of the mental body. The mental body of LD also contains some of the astral body. It should be noted that a low power OBE, or strong real time OBE, comes with difficulty thinking and remembering...even, at times, remembering ones name is difficult. So, it is obvious to me that there is a gradient of consciousness and energy from deep real time to high level lucid dreaming.

It is a common mistake to consider the physical body, the astral body, and the mental body, and higher aspects, as being completely separate items. They are all aspects of one, of one consciousness.

Deep Thinking Creative Practice....

Sit silently in a room with dim light. i prefer one candle somewhere behind me. No music or disturbances. Just sit and do nothing. Think if you like, but keep it light and observe your mind. Let yourself wind down, settle and relax. Your mind will naturally want to process recent events, like it does at the end of each day. You'll find yourself reminiscing Be aware of your mind like a gentle shepherd. The intention is to let it wind down and eventually stop naturally.

Put buy at least a couple of hours for this practice.

Allow your eyes to drift open and closed as they will. In very dim light, it is all the same.

You will feel the shift as your body falls into an altered state, and as it goes deeper.

Move in slow motion if needed, to keep your body comfortable, or to sip a little water.

The idea is to do nothing.

Everything you would normally do during a lengthy meditation session will happen naturally.

At some point you will begin to experience phenomena.

Your mind will deepen and broaden and begin thinking at a more profound level. Allow this to continue. You will find yourself thinking in abstracts. You will be able to hold many things in mind at the same time. You will, in time, gain access to your mind's eye space. When this happens, you can create things in your mind's eye space. It becomes a canvas and, much like in a lucid dream, you can create and change things as you will.

You can shift into a lucid dream or OBE here effortlessly. But try to stay in your chair. Let your eyes open and close as they will. Open your eyes a little wider if you feel you are about to shift out or go unconscious. This will cause a minor disturbance 'slight discomfort' that will help you stay focused and conscious.

Once you are immersed into this practice, you can do anything...you can plan and build models in your mind, you can craft a book or an art or musical piece. You can build machines and take them apart and put them back together. This is how Tesla did it, and other creative minds you may have heard of.

This is my favorite practice.

It is a timeless space to be in and you may find several hours will pass before your body demands attention, food, etc.

The point to this practice is to explore your creative mind, and to solve problems, and to allow the 'muse' to flow.

Note, during this practice, it is okay to take a short nap. If you do this, stay sitting upright and either balance your head or allow it to droop forward. When you awaken again, hold your trance state and resettle your head and continue.

You can use a short nap like this as a shortcut into the deeper state, so long as you are disciplined enough to maintain your posture.

robert