Copy: About Suicide

[ButterflyWoman]

Madame C. sees you eating a yummy lunch, maybe with a good book next to you.

[John Sorensen]

The opinion I'm going to share is not on the topic of suicide, per se, but on the topic of people who insist they "know what happens" to those who commit suicide, or who do this, or that, or any other thing. This has been bugging me for a while, and I'm going to rant about it. NOTE: I am not applying this to any specific person or persons, though I am kinda looking at organised religion (all of them), but not only at that.

IMHO, what people are stating when they claim to know exactly what happens "in the afterlife" is just their belief, based on their interpretations of any number of things. Mystical visions, maybe, dogma, cultural bias, all kinds of things contribute to beliefs. And when we really believe something, well, for us it's truth. Is it truth for everyone? I certainly hope not, given some of the ridiculous nonsense some people sincerely believe and even preach!

I don't think there is any way to know what will or will not happen to anyone else in any real or imagined afterlife. Your own experience? Yes, it's entirely possible, I suspect, to get an idea for and about yourself, because it's all about you, your beliefs, your worldview, etc. But how could you (or anyone) know what will or won't be happening to me tomorrow around mid-afternoon? If that's difficult to predict or know, how on earth could anyone know what will or won't be happening to me or anyone else once we die?

The point of this rant is basically this: nobody knows. At least, nobody knows as far as YOU are concerned. For themselves, sure, maybe they have a good idea. Maybe they even know, or believe they know. And maybe they sincerely believe they know for every soul on the planet, because their dogma or visions or cultural training tells them they do. But until you have some direct experience of your own (and it is possible to get direct answers, though I don't recommend dying to find out ), it's all just pure speculation, particularly when it's someone else deciding (or "knowing") what's in store for others.

Reality is what you make of it, an open source, everybody's experience is different and highly personal, but why insist that things only flow in one direction and not in every direction simultaneously? Is that not a belief?

You can and DO know what happens when you die, you have experience it many times, and also you experience it every night when you sleep.

Is that my belief? Sure why not, I don't insist anyone agree with it, but I offer a viewpoint that is something to encourage anyone not to take my word, but find out for themselves.

I don't find anything mystical about it, our perception is so narrow than we ignore any data that does not agree or conform with our mass beliefs, and when it does powerfully contradict mass (agreed upon) belief, we label those people crazy and put them in a box, and that is the finish of them, they cease to be a person to us.

"Nobody owns a copyright on truth" - Unknown

"Anyone who says THIS is the only way, I don't want to hear it, there's no one way to do anything" - John Lennon

[ButterflyWoman]

why insist that things only flow in one direction and not in every direction simultaneously?

Of course it flows that way. I was only suggesting that direct experiential information is worth infinitely more than taking the heresay advice from random others and assuming it must be true for you. But, honestly, if people want to just listen to a bunch of opinions and so-called insights and accept one or another or parts from various ones as "the truth" for their reality tapestry, I don't stand in their way. If you WANT to just take whatever you're fed and swallow it and make it part of you, hey, go for it. That's as valid a path as anything else. This particular persona (that is, "me") doesn't swing that way, and I often take the opportunity to point out that if someone else wants to forge their own experiential path, they can, but, in the long run, meh. I mostly write as I'm inspired and it's probably mostly for myself, anyway.

Basically, I just like to rattle people's reality cage. I know people HATE it when that happens, because there's nothing more disconcerting than having your reality shaken about, but this is my current apparent function, so that's what I do.

You may be assuming more about the depth of my convictions and beliefs than is actually there. I have no particular investment in "teaching" anyone anything. I did once, yes, because I believed (ah hah!) that I had some unique thing to teach or that there was some "greater good" that I could contribute to or... I dunno, something. Now, not so much. I write when I feel like writing and I rattle cages when I feel like it, and if it doesn't make any sense to anyone but me, I'm good with that, too. Did what I wrote or will write in the future or am writing right now have any effect in the overall chaotic tapestry that is "reality"? *shrug* Not my concern.

[MooSaysTheCat]

Ummm.....but can't suicides be a positive thing too? I mean...who has not heard of the hero that "sacrifices" himself to save the world? He's basically taking his life to save everyone....taking his life....or in other words he's committing suicide to save everyone. Or , if my son has a heart problem and he will die unless he can get a replacement. But only I have a heart that is compatible with his, I will sacrifice myself to save him. Or in other words you could say I committed suicided to save my son... Will I still go to hell for that? Suicide and sacrifice could mean the same thing given the situation. It's just like when you call a person "weird" or "different" they mean the same thing it's just that "different" is a nicer or positive way of saying the same thing.

You could say that Jesus committed suicided to repent for the sins if humanity. If you can see it from a different point of view, I mean he knew he was going to die...and he personally let himself get captured when he could have easily escaped. Yet he did not get punished as far as I know.


I am in no way trying to justify suicide. However I believe that the word "suicide" has received a "negative" meaning or vibe by society. The word by itself is not "evil" .


Now that I think about it.....everything I just wrote might be a bit off-topic....

[CFTraveler]

But it's charged with meaning, and in this society being a hero that sacrifices him-or-herself for others are not called suicides, they're called either martyrs, or sacrifices.

[Osiris]

Well lol l cant help but have an opinion regarding suicide to. And I sticking to my guns...suicide is a bad deal. Not just for the perpetrator but for all of us. Sure I dont have a pipeline to any "Gods" top desk drawer. But when I look around nature I dont see too many squirrels and blackbirds throwing themselves on sharp sticks. I dont see roses in my garden choking themselves. I know Im being silly but its what I see. I see things being born....growing....and dying (usually of old age...check the obits). And it dosnt take a rocket scientist to see that we learn and usually become happier and more well rounded individuals as we age. Everything in nature Grows with age....
I dont give a hoot about what religion or science says about anything they are all about power and money. Things in nature (of which we are an intimate part) mature and grow and almost always in a positive way. I do personally know there is another side....Ive experienced it in obes and wide awake in the physical. Sure its a "personal" experience... the scientific method, wonderful as it is, is not perfect and its requirement and dependence on experimentation can blind in individual and a society. Just look at the west and what we've created.
The real problem with suicide isnt the death itself its that soooo little is ever done to tend to the suffering that leads to it. In the west especially there is such a stigma attached to helping anyone suffering. Most people just want the person to crawl into a corner and die so they dont have to see or hear about it anymore or so they dont have to stop there "busy day" to lend a hand. Here in the america its all about the Money....and if your taking up my time...".get away from me!" If the people on this side could get a fraction of the help they will get on the otherside after the unfortunate deed is done the deed itself would have never occurred. Thats the rub....if you destroy yourself you no longer grow (here at least) and here is were we need the growth the most. Rant over
'

[MooSaysTheCat]

But it's charged with meaning, and in this society being a hero that sacrifices him-or-herself for others are not called suicides, they're called either martyrs, or sacrifices.

Exactly my point...they would be called martyrs. But it's basically just suicide...Because what would come of the heroes suicide would be a positive thing. But suicide is an "evil" thing, se we just HAVE to change the word into a "good" thing. In this case a heroic sacrifice.

And for suicide to bring a good thing...we'll that would be just silly now wouldn't it?

I'm sorry if what I wrote upsets anyone ...but I have been reading this thread for some time now and I was not seeing anyone saying anything positive about suicides....we'll maybe there is nothing positive about them...but of course this is a world ruled by the law of duality...so for suicide not to have a "good" side is absolutely impossible. I guess.
And I believe that anyone that wants to know something about anything must first hear both sides of the story, so to speak.

[CFTraveler]

What you wrote didn't upset anyone that I know of, but in most societies, even the ones that see suicide as a 'good thing', all this manner of labeling exists. We label something the way we see it, and just because an act 'seems' to be the same thing, it really isn't- the motivation of the 'doer' puts a different spin on the act. Take 'killing' for example- you can be a war hero, or a murderer, or even an idiot- the act of killing someone will have different descriptors, because the act really isn't the same, even if it seems so on the surface.
In the big picture everything is the same, some describe it as illusion, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't use as many words as possible to describe an event- in my opinion, the more descriptive the better- and an attempt to 'overly simplify' it is an excuse to not look at everything that is associated with it.

[Reav3R]

Pardon me, but I think the subject's being derailed here, the question wasn't whether suicide is or could be a good or bad thing. The topic is mainly about "what" could possibly unfold for someone who commits a suicide, it doesn't matter whether it's a good thing or a bad one.

[CFTraveler]

Good catch, Reav3r.

7