I need mentoring/coaching in practising deep trance, by chat or PM

[Cesm]

Ok i am asking this (i hope this is the right place) because honestly, i am that kind of persons that take things a bit too literally (i am asperger), this is why that even after reading DOUZENS of tuturials and posts in foruns like this i always get confused (yeah even after reading astral dynamics), i still am not sure if am practising trance right or not (so far i found out that i was doing a few mistakes before) because i seem to be having STRONG difficulties even reach light trance at all, and worst of all, i am having a LOT of difficulties even KNOWING if i am in trance or not, so i really need personal guidance, specially by chat (IRC or skype) or as a last resourt by PM or email, but chat is prefered.


My current goal is to be able to reach deep trance, that state of mind in which we are actually able to feel thoughforms/essences and kinda "interact" with them, i have met 2 persons that have reached that state (they have tulpas), but unfortunatly they can't help me anymore, so i would apreciate personal guidance from other people that were able to achieve such a deep state. And no, hypnosis and self-hypnosis don't seem to work for me (probably related to me being asperger).

Another important thing is that i would like to know how usually this kind of practises usually improve over time, so that i am sure if am doing them correctly or not.

[CFTraveler]

When you go to sleep at night, do you go to sleep right away or does it take a while? Considering what you've shared, I think you should not approach this 'technique-wise', and change the focus to results. If you don't mind, I'll ask a few questions and then you can take it from there.

[Cesm]

Yeah it does take a while, usually i always have insomnia problems frequently, but it's quite a bit always different everyday, usually i am able to fall asleep in 5m but sometimes without any appearent reason i get insomnia having no idea why... (even if i always try to go to sleep always the same way)

Remember that the problem here is indeed that if not seeing this as a technique or in a "mechanical way" it gets complicated to me to understand what's wrong when nothing happens when trying to go to trance, because unfortunately i have a very logical and linear thinking mind and i don't know how to do differently from this without proper guided advises.

The reason i told it was better by chat or PM it's because i already know that things like this will going to take several replys between someone and me since i usually NEVER understand something like this at the first tries and because of the "black and white" mentality i have, i always have douzens of doubts.

But i still hope you're willing to help me that way (i mean, without being just 1 or 2 replys), in case no one else replys since i don't know what else i can do anymore since even hypnosis and self-hypnosis seemed to have failed.

[Lionheart]

Cesm, I have found through my experiences in these AP Forums, the importance of reading all or most of the posts by a member before commenting with any advise. Because of this I have noticed that you are trying to rush a process that can't be rushed. This becomes quite evident in this recent statement by you here:

"I say this because unfortunately i have a big problem which is practising things like this for long periods of time (longer than 10-15m) without starting to get bored and frustated because i still am unable to get over the mentality of getting frusted by the lack of instant results. I know things like this aren't developed overnight, but to me being able to have motivation for this i need to know how exactly this kind of visualization is developed so that i fully understand when i am doing it "wrong" or not.

By this i mean to avoid at all costs wasting several months on a specific method and then finding i was doing it wrong because of not knowing "obvious" things about how mental training like this works, for example."


Every technique that you will read on any of the AP Forums, will have the same thing in common and that's to attain a good NP (Non physical) focus. That can be attained in various ways and that's why there are so many different techniques.

There isn't a right way or a wrong way, as long as you are reaching your goal. Not all techniques will work for a person. So if you find that you can't attain a good NP focus one way, try another.

Now to the rushing part. There are no "instant" results. How long does it take one to learn to play Piano or any other instrument and how do they achieve that goal? It takes a lot of practice, patience and perseverance to do that, just as it does with this practice.

I have spoken to people that said it took years until they could AP consciously aware. Mainly because they had some kind of "internal block" impeding their progress.

You have stated that you have Asperger's. What are your symptoms? I know people that have very mild symptoms and then others that have it much more severe. I would suggest that the ones with it severe would not even attempt to learn AP at all. It's one thing "getting there". It's a completely different story though handling and confronting what you see once you do "get there".

I hope this will give you some things to ponder.

[Cesm]

Cesm, I have found through my experiences in these AP Forums, the importance of reading all or most of the posts by a member before commenting with any advise. Because of this I have noticed that you are trying to rush a process that can't be rushed. This becomes quite evident in this recent statement by you here:


"I say this because unfortunately i have a big problem which is practising things like this for long periods of time (longer than 10-15m) without starting to get bored and frustated because i still am unable to get over the mentality of getting frusted by the lack of instant results. I know things like this aren't developed overnight, but to me being able to have motivation for this i need to know how exactly this kind of visualization is developed so that i fully understand when i am doing it "wrong" or not.

Yes that's EXACTLY the problem i always had and i still have, i am now mostly talking about developing psychic abilities, i just wonder how the heck am i supposed to get over this, if i keep getting VERY straong boring and frustating feelings if i keep practising something that doesn't give ANY signals it's working in a few days/2 weeks? Such situation just makes my belief system immediatly trigger the conclusion that means i am insisting in something that will never work, this is because one of my belief system is "if you do something that you see it's not working, it will never work no matter how you insist on it" and another of my belief systems is that i don't know why, somehow i have a LOT of trouble accepting that mental practises DO get better with practise even if done the SAME way everytime like in exercice and muscles... What is the solution to this then? Obviously i am unable to change my core beliefs, and just ignoring the boreness and frustation is obviously impossible, they become gradually stronger the more days i see without any indication what i am doing is working or not, and by nearly 2 weeks it just becomes a TORTURE or a CHORE practising something like this.

There isn't a right way or a wrong way, as long as you are reaching your goal. Not all techniques will work for a person. So if you find that you can't attain a good NP focus one way, try another.

There's no wrong way?? But to practise trance, first of all i tought that when being in trance was about being in hypnagogics and such strange states of mind, and that being in deep trance was about "feeling in another dimension" (which i did sometimes), so i focused on practising on trying to be aware inside hypnagogics WITHOUT falling asleep (because sometimes i really felt like being in another dimension inside hypnagogics), which i DID actually suceed in being more aware inside such scenes without falling asleep, but then 2-3 weeks later i learn that trance IS about getting focused without intrusive thoughts and having a clear min, which is the opposite of what happens in hypnagogics (i get douzens of intrusive thoughts near the hypnagogics state which seem very similar to those when falling asleep), so that means... 2-3 weeks wasted because i wasn't able to understand exactly what IS trance after all even after everything i read on articles, because some of them are contradictory and i keep having several literal different interpretations because of the specific way a person explains those things and then i keep thinking it's everything different.


Then i started to only just trying to have a clear mind when near hypnagogics since i presumed that reaching deep trance IS about remaining with a very clear and focused mind while we go through the hypnagogics and borderline of sleep, so i started to "will myself" out of hypnagogics everytime i was aware inside them to have a clear mind again, but it's obviously very difficult having a clear mind near the border line of sleep, and i keep being unsure if this is something that it's not possible to get better on at, or if it's supposed to be possible to overcome WITHOUT preventing us from falling asleep at night or causing insomnia.


But now i am not sure anymore if it's SUPPOSED to we avoid hypnagogics or not because i have no idea how to recognize exactly if hypnagogics IS a trance state or it actually prevents us from going deeper, this is SO confusing... even after reading the trance section in astral dynamics book, it's still confusing.

Now to the rushing part. There are no "instant" results. How long does it take one to learn to play Piano or any other instrument and how do they achieve that goal? It takes a lot of practice, patience and perseverance to do that, just as it does with this practice.

Yeah but at least on hypnagogics control and being aware i DID had almost instant results, i just have no idea if this is actually a hindrance to deep trance or not, because what i want is being able to interact and perceive thoughtforms in my mind in a ACCURATE way without accidently creating "fake" thoughforms or having random hypnagogic scenes, and so far, everything i tried in trance meditation, always keeps sending me totally random things and i am always unable to get any accurate information from thoughforms in a intuitive way without "faking" this with logical deductions or expectations.


The problem here is that i DON'T know how to know if i am progressing or not, when we practise instruments or other kind of skills it's easy to see if we are getting better or not, but in trance... how do i even know if i am getting better at it if what i keep getting all the times is hypnagogics and douzens of intrusive thoughts caused by the borderline to sleep? I keep thinking i am just accidently almost falling asleep and to my mind this registers as a ABSOLUTE waste of time and not practise at all, since no one gets better at trance by just "falling asleep", the problem is that i still have a lot of trouble understanding the difference between practising trance AND just falling asleep, to me they seem to be done exactly the same way... Unless you mean it's JUST about trying to be aware and meditating when we are apparently falling asleep so that prevents us from falling asleep, is THAT really what learning deep trance after all ? Even so, i need a lot more clarification on this.

I have spoken to people that said it took years until they could AP consciously aware. Mainly because they had some kind of "internal block" impeding their progress.

Yeah that's exactly what i suspect i have too (internal blocks) apparently i have the same thing abount hipnosis as well and most psychic abilities (except reiki, apparently from what other people say i am able to send powerfull reiki healings BUT remember since i was attuned, the processes are always "automatic" out of my control but at least it was enough for me to believe on psychic abilities in a general way), the problem is that what garantees me that if i practise something for years WILL actually work for my mind ? I need such kind of confirmation before pluging myself practising something like that for a long time. Sure you just say to keep trying other methods, but this is what is confusing, how can i practise the same method for months if i am not sure which one is the best for my mind and specific internal blocks, if to know such one is the right one i have to practise the same one for months becuase the results don't come instantly ? That's what i meant about not wanting to waste time, because it's quite possible that in for example 5 different methods, i spend 3 or 6 months practising 1, then another 3-6 months another one, what if the LAST method was the better to me ? That mean i "suffered" and wasted 2-3 years in methods that didn't work, all because we HAVE to practise them for some time to know if they work, and unfortuately just trying then 1-2 weeks apparently isn't enough to know if they work or not.

You have stated that you have Asperger's. What are your symptoms? I know people that have very mild symptoms and then others that have it much more severe. I would suggest that the ones with it severe would not even attempt to learn AP at all. It's one thing "getting there". It's a completely different story though handling and confronting what you see once you do "get there".

Well i confess this is just SELF-DIAGNOSED but from what i read on google i have nearly almost all the symptons : i have obssessive compulsive desires, literlal and linear thinking (when solving ANY problem at all on everything, i tend to always do everything the same way mechanically) which makes me literally dependend on everyone else's to solve problems, very logical mind and thinking in "black and white" (having a lot of trouble recognizing similar things just because of small details, this is why i was always a lot better at math than at languages), lack of empathy and social skills, very short attention span, difficulty in translating intentions into words correctly (not sure if this is a asperger characteristic). Note that i am aware that some of these symptons are NOT 100% asperger, i have different degrees of each symptom, for example i am actually more sociable than most aspergers, but at the same time i am very lonely and don't like social interactions so it's kinda like being half-normal half-asperger.


Despite all that i always have almost zero creativity skills, and even the intuintion i have is kinda "strange" since it appears to be reversed when it's about being absolutly sure about something or not!


Anyway if you think you CAN help me recognize if the kind of practises i am doing for trance please give your best, even if it's by PM because believe me i will never be fully clarified by just 1 or 2 posts, i speak from personal experience in years on making posts like this on foruns, because there's just so many things that AREN'T obvious to me because of literal interpretations and not being able to recognize similarities in similar things.

NOTE : as aditional information, when near the hypnagogic state sometimes something quite strange happens, it's almost like if i will something, my mind kinda "grants my wish" instantly, for example if i visualize something in mind's eye, suddently my mind turns that thing into a vivid hypnagogic scene adding random elements, much like creating a mini-dream based on what i visualized, sometimes i just literally hallucinate what i try to visualize and i am even able to do some "doodling", which is amazing, is this the so called "light trance" state? If it's not then what this means for the skill of achieving deep trance and how can i take advantage of this? It's really a hindrance? Because even tough this is a amazing skill i would also develop, i also want to be able to reach a deep trance of mind in which i am able to "explore" my mind in a accurate way to feel intuitively thoughtforms (or possible tulpas) without having visualizations or expectations corrupting it with random hypnagogics.

Also while in that state, when i tried to visualize situations to induce a falling sensation, to my surprise i also got a hypnagogic scene based on that visualization and i also even able to hallucinate the feeling of falling, much like i was really falling physically, i presume this too is VERY good for getting a deeper trance? My doubt in all of this is if hypnagogics does prevent me from getting deeper trances or not, OR if i am able to maintain concious and aware during the hypnagogics its ok ?

[Lionheart]

You are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yy over thinking this my friend.

My advise to you would be to learn to RELAX, RELEASE your thoughts, the LET GO and separate.

The RELAX is straight forward. You can do this with Robert's NEW here other kind of progressive relaxation.

The RELEASing of your thoughts means you need to practice losing that "monkey mind". You can't force it. Try watching your thoughts instead of joining them. Just watch them fly by, but don't stop them to "interrogate" them.

The Letting Go can come from a actual Exit technique or just by joining the visions you are seeing.

I can see that you are in the one step forward two steps back mode. This means you are getting to the point of a good NP focus, but then you look back at your physical body for signs that you are there, which is counterproductive.

The "signposts" you see are seeing are meant to be observed and passed, but not to halt your progress. You will see the more you practice the less "signposts" you will experience. That's why it's important not to get hooked on them as a sign of progress.

Hypnogogic Imagery, Vibrations, Heart palpitations, Temperature changes, etc.. Observe them and move on.

Now to this take on this statement here:
"That mean i "suffered" and wasted 2-3 years in methods that didn't work, all because we HAVE to practise them for some time to know if they work, and unfortuately just trying then 1-2 weeks apparently isn't enough to know if they work or not."

You use words like "wasted" and above you used "Torture" and a "Chore". If you meant what you are saying, you are missing the whole point of AP to begin with. Therefore, maybe you should really reconsider learning this skill to begin with.

I am not telling you not to, I am saying that by your descriptions and words, that you have already decided this at some level already.

This is where it's good to take a step back and question yourself on why you want to AP in the first place. Why is this important to you? What do you expect to get out of it? You don't need to answer those questions here, but you definitely need to answer those to yourself!

[Terry]

Ok i am asking this (i hope this is the right place) because honestly, i am that kind of persons that take things a bit too literally (i am asperger), this is why that even after reading DOUZENS of tuturials and posts in foruns like this i always get confused (yeah even after reading astral dynamics), i still am not sure if am practising trance right or not (so far i found out that i was doing a few mistakes before) because i seem to be having STRONG difficulties even reach light trance at all, and worst of all, i am having a LOT of difficulties even KNOWING if i am in trance or not, so i really need personal guidance, specially by chat (IRC or skype) or as a last resourt by PM or email, but chat is prefered.


My current goal is to be able to reach deep trance, that state of mind in which we are actually able to feel thoughforms/essences and kinda "interact" with them, i have met 2 persons that have reached that state (they have tulpas), but unfortunatly they can't help me anymore, so i would apreciate personal guidance from other people that were able to achieve such a deep state. And no, hypnosis and self-hypnosis don't seem to work for me (probably related to me being asperger).

Another important thing is that i would like to know how usually this kind of practises usually improve over time, so that i am sure if am doing them correctly or not.

The sense that I get from your post is that you are over thinking the process and not letting yourself relax and let go. Your own mental chatter is blocking out or talking over the ones who are trying to communicate with you.

Have you gotten to the point where you can differentiate between your voice and that of something or someone(s) elses?

Many communication comes in the form of knowings, voice that is your own but if you pay close attention the words don't seem to originate from your own thoughts, symbols, flashes of insight these are just a few ways I have experienced entity communications.

Most of the time when difficulty happens is because of too much focus on a specific outcome or expectation of what communication should be like. You can prevent yourself from hearing the communication, it doesn't mean there isn't any happening you just are too focused on it to realize it is happening. Most experiences are not long or go on for hours and hours, instead a few seconds.

Sometimes it is a "download" where you become consciously aware and understanding comes over time. Maybe it comes through in a dream and you don't recognize it for what it is.

I haven't read the rest of this thread but these are my thoughts from your OP.

[Terry]

Ok, I read through the entire thread and I think there are somethings that are working for you but you are second guessing them and then get frustrated. I am not sure which or what methods you are trying but I feel that you need to pay more attention to the experience that you are having from an emotional presence stand point.

I mean letting yourself feel the experience as you are having it. From what I get you are intellectually thinking about the process as you go through it, which in the very beginning is a common thing for people to do, especially more left brained oriented people.

Stop labeling things and using some ruler to gadge what you think the experience should be like or where you think you should be at. There is NO person that ever reaches whatever self imposed level regularly or consistently, I am telling you it is ok to let go of this way of measuring whatever progress you think should be attained or be possible before you even experience whatever it is you think should happen.

You have from what I can determine a focus issue more than anything when it comes to getting into trance, meditative state or state of mind... whatever label you want to put on it.

I have no idea what understanding you have or personal realizations you have had in your life to date when it comes to this stuff.
All I can suggest is that you focus your attention on experiencing whatever you experience entirely and not trouble yourself with intellectual thought, just let the thoughts happen but don't concern yourself with their content. Eventually overtime you will become a more peaceful person as you do this more and you will be able to more easily get into the desired state of mind.

During this process you will experience good and bad, have visions that inspire you and make you feel wonderful and also have visions that may scare the hell out of you. The key is to not get too wrapped up in meaning of whatever gets thrown at you, sometimes it is just lunch being digested or personal traumas coming back up to be released.

It can be difficult at times but just make sure whenever you are exploring your abilities and going off on adventures that you focus your intention on the greatest good and highest vibration and light. You will experience whatever you focus your intention on whether that be dark and black or white and etheral.

Whatever experience you have always run it through your gut instinct because sometimes the information you get is not always in your best interest and feelings of depression or wanting to hurt yourself or others may not actually be your own thoughts or feelings but influences from outside yourself. Anytime you feel or begin thinking dramatically different stop and analyze why you maybe feeling this way BEFORE you take any actions.

Protect yourself with white light or whatever process that works for you, make sure you feel safe and protected before attempting to communicate with other beings. Some will just mess with you just because you allow it or because they don't really care about you at all. Intention has a huge impact here on what is allowed into your presence, make that intention known before you start and take precautions as needed.