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Thread: How many universes are there?

  1. #11

    Re: How many universes are there?

    Quote Originally Posted by IA56 View Post
    Is it from these 4 parallel universes that the 4 elements are decribed as??
    No.
    Sin nada (Nothing is impossible)

  2. #12

    Re: How many universes are there?

    If you want the more formal view (in reasonabl understandable terminology), you can find it here:
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/blogs/p...lel-universes/

    Quote Originally Posted by CFTraveler View Post
    I'd like for wstein to describe the four universes, if you're ok with this, W.
    There are not four universes. There are four classes of parallel universes.
    A-if space (AKA space-time continuum) is infinite and quantum states are finite, then there must be repeats of every configuration of quantum states. In other word, anything that exists anywhere has an infinite number of exact (quantum mechanically speaking) duplicates elsewhere.

    B-(multiverse, multiworlds interpretation, parallel timelines) the prevailing understanding of quantum mechanics is that fundamental particles are not exact in nature but rather a cloud of probabilities. Only when 'viewed' do they take on a singular exact state. Rising in popularity is the interpretation all of the probabilities 'occur' when 'viewed', each in a parallel universe. At every moment nearly identical 'copies' of the entire universe are created based on all the possible quantum outcomes of subatomic interactions. Each of those copies goes on to spawn its own copies at the next moment. The net effect at the macro level is that anything that can happen does happen. This does not meant anything is possible, whatever comes to be must have a 'valid' chain of cause and effect that created it (no violating laws of nature).

    C-some cosmological equations suggest that universes can bud (spawn) ‘daughter’ universes when space gets too distorted. These daughter universe eventually break free of their parents and become full and complete universe in their own right. Note that the laws of physic need not be identical between the parent and child.

    D-Membrane theory suggests that This universe is but a membrane floating in a reality with more dimensions (than the three we have). As such other membranes may be floating out there in the larger reality. Frighteningly, these membranes (universes) can collide (one possible explanation for the big bang).
    Sin nada (Nothing is impossible)

  3. #13

    Re: How many universes are there?

    Quote Originally Posted by ereus View Post
    Theoritically if there are a infinite amount on universes, all possibilities are true? so there is a universe where i am a female or entire universes identical to fiction if one goes to the logical extent
    All of the scientifically based parallel universes require that the laws of nature are are obeyed without exception. For instance this would preclude us all from instantly turning into cartoon characters.

    So it does support the idea that there are parallel universe out there where you where conceived and born as a female. However, as your current DNA was I assume XY, your XX (female) version would not be any more similar to you than a sister would be. There are of course more exotic possibilities that might be valid for you. Perhaps you currently are intersex or have transsexual genes. If so, your parallel versions might have chosen (or have chosen for them) to be raised female or to later become female.

    Actual versions of fictional universes are possible assuming that they are consistent with some set of fundamental laws (of nature). I would guess that more than half of fiction written to date would qualify.

    Advanced note: if this universe is a simulation, dream, or direct product of active consciousness, then in a sense its already fictional and could in fact be recreated as another fictional copy or altered in any arbitrary way. While this may sound ridiculous, there is a current scientific idea suggesting that this universe is more likely a simulation than what we would consider and actual universe (made of matter and energy).
    Sin nada (Nothing is impossible)

  4. #14

    Re: How many universes are there?

    Quote Originally Posted by CFTraveler View Post
    Theoretically anything is possible, but scientifically speaking it's not infinite possibilities, but an infinity of possible universes, making it finite. A very high number probably, but not strictly infinite. (See Shrodinger's waveform for a more 'scientifically accurate' estimation.)
    Having "an infinity of possible universes" can not make it finite (even is only a subset are actualized).

    What is finite (according to current theory) are the number of quantum states at a point in space, this makes the number of possibilities in a single universe finite. There is not yet any solid evidence as to whether or not the number of possible universes is infinite or finite.

    If you believe string/M theory, the number of possible sets of laws of nature and that no other possibilities exist. According to this there can still be an infinite number of universes, however only a finite (though large) number of things can be in those universes. As such there must be vast quantities of 'copies' of everything scattered about reality.
    Sin nada (Nothing is impossible)

  5. #15
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    Re: How many universes are there?

    Quote Originally Posted by wstein View Post
    No.
    Thank you wstein. Is the 4 elements scientific explained ??

    So the B universe or multiverse is where we live??

    Love
    ia
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    Re: How many universes are there?

    Gotcha.
    Now another question, since I'm not up on the latest stuff:
    A-if space (AKA space-time continuum) is infinite and quantum states are finite
    I had the understanding that space (the spacetime continuum) can't be infinite because it's expanding, and for it to expand there has to be some sort of 'quantity' aspect, that maybe what is infinite is 'where' it's expanding to? Even trying to express this is giving me a headache because terms like 'where' imply 'something' and that's not what I mean, but the 'occupied space' versus the 'empty space' infinity aspect, if there is such a thing, seems to be a difference.

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  7. #17

    Re: How many universes are there?

    Quote Originally Posted by IA56 View Post
    Is the 4 elements scientific explained ??
    To my best understanding, the four elements view is considered an outdated and mostly naive early model of chemistry. So expalined, yes, but not the way you mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by IA56 View Post
    So the B universe or multiverse is where we live??
    My extensive OBE experience suggests that this universe is A, B, C, and D. Not all the C type universes I have been to have A or B type parallel companions. B type seems especially uncommon (though could be an artifact of limited sampling).
    Sin nada (Nothing is impossible)

  8. #18

    Re: How many universes are there?

    Quote Originally Posted by CFTraveler View Post
    I had the understanding that space (the spacetime continuum) can't be infinite because it's expanding,
    contrary to popular understanding, there is not one infinity. Infinities come in different 'sizes'. Also infinite is can expand/increase though perversely it doesn't get any 'larger'. Note that combining infinities can make a 'larger' infinity. Its better not to think of infinity as a precise number. Though not technically correct, it is easier to work with if you consider it an undefined really large amount.

    Quote Originally Posted by CFTraveler View Post
    and for it to expand there has to be some sort of 'quantity' aspect, that maybe what is infinite is 'where' it's expanding to?
    It does have a 'quantity' aspect. That quantity in this case is 'infinity'.

    I know it kills brain cells to contemplate something expanding into nothing. However in the case of universes, that is pretty much the case. Really, the size of the universe does not affect nor is affected by the nothing.

    Infinity need not expand 'to' anywhere. One can just as easily get an infinity by dividing something. For instance, cutting a pie into ever smaller pieces. The total amount of pie remains the same.
    Sin nada (Nothing is impossible)

  9. #19
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    Re: How many universes are there?

    Thank you wstein.

    Does science have any definition or name on ? what is always bigger then it´s parts??


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    Core Affirmation: I am loved and I am worthy,
    I am safe and I am free.
    I am powerfully protected.
    I am master of my body and ruler of my mind.
    By Robert Bruce

  10. #20
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    Re: How many universes are there?

    Quote Originally Posted by wstein View Post
    To my best understanding, the four elements view is considered an outdated and mostly naive early model of chemistry.
    Indeed. Ancient Greece, to the best of my knowledge. Early philosophers were trying to figure out how the world was put together, and decided that everything was based in water because of the "moistness" of things like sex and birth and so on, and then it grew from there to include other "elements" (which aren't actually elemental at all). I wrote an academic essay once that touched on this topic; can't drag the names of the philosophers out of my head just at the moment, though.

    But the idea of "four elements" was picked up by the Romans (who absorbed most of Greek culture), and given the power and longevity of the Roman empire, the idea persisted through the Middle Ages and right through the Renaissance, only being really dispelled by The Enlightenment in the 17th-18th centuries.

    People still cling to the idea, though, for a variety of reasons, and the notion does work for in a metaphorical sense for some things, but, yes, it's from an era modern minds can barely comprehend (getting your mind into the worldview of an ancient Greek is quite an interesting challenge!), and, essentially, it doesn't really make any actual sense, scientifically.

    It's interesting to me how certain ancient ideas persist while others perish. The meme must be useful, or it would have died out long ago. A lot of ancient Greek philosophy is still around in various forms, though, which, to me, indicates the power of the collective Unconsciousness.
    May the light surround you, may you be blessed. May the light surround us, may we be blessed. May love and light surround us all, and may we all be healed and blessed. And so it is, and so it shall be, now and ever after.

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