Can someone please help me find answers

[Timothy]

If you want to go from a straightforward Biblical point of view, Paul is blazingly, unmistakably, completely clear on the idea that you don't have to "do" anything, that you are redeemed by virtue of faith. Faith meaning "trust", similar to the phrase "in good faith". Trust that you are already acceptable, and go from there.

This doesn't mean that your "personality" (such as it is) is without flaws or other programming glitches (so to speak), and those things may change, spontaneously sometimes, or by what seems to be spiritual movement apart form your conscious self. But it's not "you" doing these things. The material self can no more remake itself or rewrite itself than a drawing of a rabbit can pick up a pencil and erase bits of itself and draw them in ways it likes better. So, again, it comes back to trust/faith, and allowing yourself to be shaped. A Christian POV would be that this is the work of the Holy Spirit.

The salvation, regeneration, whatever it ends up being, is not the work of works, and not something that you do for yourself. Any sort of "but then you must do X and Y" is directly contrary to what Paul had to say on the subject.

WOW !!! Dat's Just Pure Sexy Right ^There^.

[IA56]

If you want to go from a straightforward Biblical point of view, Paul is blazingly, unmistakably, completely clear on the idea that you don't have to "do" anything, that you are redeemed by virtue of faith. Faith meaning "trust", similar to the phrase "in good faith". Trust that you are already acceptable, and go from there.

This doesn't mean that your "personality" (such as it is) is without flaws or other programming glitches (so to speak), and those things may change, spontaneously sometimes, or by what seems to be spiritual movement apart form your conscious self. But it's not "you" doing these things. The material self can no more remake itself or rewrite itself than a drawing of a rabbit can pick up a pencil and erase bits of itself and draw them in ways it likes better. So, again, it comes back to trust/faith, and allowing yourself to be shaped. A Christian POV would be that this is the work of the Holy Spirit.

The salvation, regeneration, whatever it ends up being, is not the work of works, and not something that you do for yourself. Any sort of "but then you must do X and Y" is directly contrary to what Paul had to say on the subject.

I now again put me out there for sure....I have to say something about this....you took Paul as a example...and I feel it is not so good example because Paul is very strict on that women be silence and not to speak public...he did not help women to become equal with men....if Paul was the one to dictate how to live we still be on the level of other countries who do not value women but keeps still women silent.......As you say that Paul said you do not have to do anything....and that advice in my world is not good because it is to lead you on wrong belief.....to get further you need to work on many subjects....like forgiveness...salvation is forgiveness.....you get what you can give others.....
The only good I see in Paul is that Jesus did open up his heart and he stopped to pursuit Jesus...Jesus did learn him forgiveness....Jesus did forgive him for have tried to hurt him badly...
Only to have felt pure love Paul did change ....but still can see that he have much to work on in him....but all disciples are hand picked by Jesus to show all kind of personalities and flaws....and that how bad you are you can be forgiven but you have to learn to forgive first too and learn what love is......

There is nothing that bad that can´t be forgiven....

Love
ia

[Sinera]

*retracted*

[ButterflyWoman]

Paul is very strict on that women be silence and not to speak public.

Which has nothing at all to do what the topic. The OP is coming at this from a Christian perspective. I assumed a standard Christology.

Yes, Paul wrote a lot of things that people find problematic. I've read his letters, and the letters attributed to him (but which probably were not written by him) as well as the rest of the Bible and other related works, so I'm well aware.

HOWEVER, most of the New Testament is based on the letters of Paul, and the most common forms of Christianity are also based on the teachings of Paul. Which is why I referenced Paul. Essentially, if you're going to talk about Christian context in anything like a traditional sense, you MUST acknowledge Paul as the foundation for much of established Christianity.

Honestly, I could go on indefinitely about the history of Christianity, various Christologies, etc., but I generally don't. I've been studying Christianity and comparative religions, formally and informally, for most of my life.

If you have a better way of expressing that salvation (in Christian terms) is by faith and not by works -- within the established parameters of historical and cultural Christianity -- feel free to do so, and I don't personally care if people like or don't like the Apostle Paul or his writings (honestly, I'm not at all invested in that), but you have to acknowledge that most Christian thought from the very earliest days is based directly on the teachings of Paul.

[IA56]

Which has nothing at all to do what the topic. The OP is coming at this from a Christian perspective. I assumed a standard Christology.

Yes, Paul wrote a lot of things that people find problematic. I've read his letters, and the letters attributed to him (but which probably were not written by him) as well as the rest of the Bible and other related works, so I'm well aware.

HOWEVER, most of the New Testament is based on the letters of Paul, and the most common forms of Christianity are also based on the teachings of Paul. Which is why I referenced Paul. Essentially, if you're going to talk about Christian context in anything like a traditional sense, you MUST acknowledge Paul as the foundation for much of established Christianity.

Honestly, I could go on indefinitely about the history of Christianity, various Christologies, etc., but I generally don't. I've been studying Christianity and comparative religions, formally and informally, for most of my life.

If you have a better way of expressing that salvation (in Christian terms) is by faith and not by works -- within the established parameters of historical and cultural Christianity -- feel free to do so, and I don't personally care if people like or don't like the Apostle Paul or his writings (honestly, I'm not at all invested in that), but you have to acknowledge that most Christian thought from the very earliest days is based directly on the teachings of Paul.

No, no I have nothing more than I have said about Christianity...it was why I wrote in the first post on this thread....that I also took the religious road ....and went through the church sealing....through the dogma to the void.......away from the box ...as the religions are...

Love
ia

[Timothy]

Moreso than Solomon are You arrayed.

letters2.jpg

Yet open, from here to fore...can we look to the Cross of Christ. Though...no One through having gone may again through "it" come.

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Ergo, as You are ... come.

Those whom are exalted shall be humbled, and those humbled shall be exalted.

I shall be ...what... I shall be.

Shah MahT ...~t~... I remaining...Do stay.

Mah

As to say, that within the sons of Shem, did Ham working the lands of Elam grow the wild grapes for a wine that would not be stayed, the fermentation running out all sweetness. Media, the generations of Japeth, at a later date marrying into Elam...were as brandy to this wild grape wine, thusly staying the fermentation at the peak of sweetness for a refreshing Table Wine. Sherry