Bible ?

[Aunt Clair]

Somehow it does sound like some energetic instructions to me. Is this correct ?

This sounds reasonable . I do not know of the horns making noise but if the bees and the cobras can be heard why shouldn't the rams horns sound too ?

AC: There are extensions of several minor kandas in the moon stone which form energy horns ."

F:If I understand it correctly the three major channels (Ida, Pingala, Sushumna) origin in the major kanda. What are secondary kandas and why and when do they appear. Are the "horns" new channels? What happens to the horns when they drop of - are they transmuted into the eyes? And what are the eyes for - I mean what do they see? [quote:1ys46mfr]

The horns have dropped off a fair few times symbolic ,I feel ,of transmutation of negativity and ego . The kandas are flat energy centres which become minor chakras when they become spheroid . They are variable in size, beginning about the size of a golf ball . At least ,when I begin to perceive them they are that size . These rapidly grown becoming as large as a coffee cup , then a salad plate and then a dinner plate .

The eyes allow for heightened perception clairiently . We were temporarily blinded in the third eye ,for example, and we were tested by Buddha to find hidden doors to tunnels of Seth . This is about overcoming fears , having faith and also about removing illusions . 360 degree sight is possible , these eyes are a step in that direction but they also help with clairaudience and clairsentience too .
[quote:1ys46mfr]Does one get 360 degree vision by using them?

Yes but the main eye also turns on its own 360 degrees .

AC:"Imagine working on a path of light ,if you will ,and seeing yourself and your peers suddenly appearing clairvoyantly with curled goat horns in the front and a pair of more demonic looking horns in the rear ."

F:Ah, would LOVE to see that,

There were about 12 of us in a circle when we began to grow bat wings ,horns and a tail . It was difficult because we had not heard of this and we did not get a clear answer from the spirit teachers . There are times we have to figure out the puzzle as a test and there are lessons which are tests of faith too . It was a relief to find that this stage was written about albeit rarely by mystics before us . It was also interesting that the bat demon only grew on the back of us . The front , at that time , was adorned with flowers and cobras and we looked like Krishna .This was also very confusing at that time because we were all Christian Mystics . But Tom had always had an interest in the Hindu Pantheon and he was a great help in interpreting that stage . Kundalni manifested an urn of cobras on the heart and at the pelvis . When the horns , wings and tail disappeared we earned multiple eyes and a crown of cobras instead .
So we looked bizarre still , but no longer demonic .

Are the "stones" in the Bible the same as the tan tiens?

There are references to both the buried treasure stone in the garden and the inhumane acts of murderous stoning with rocks . Both occur . It is important to be discerning to understand when there is a subrosa message and when there is nothing more than the literal present in the text . I think that your interpretation of the rams horn is promising and intriguing . I am certain that the alchemy stones are mentioned in the Bible but not every mention of a stone , horn or bee is related to spiritual transformation.

Do you think that "being stoned" could refer to an energy rising that is hindered and blocked by an not filled energy storage center (would at least explain why prophets were afraid to do the bidding of the Lord - they knew their spiritual body was not yet ready).

Imho , my interpretation was that they were not capable of projecting and that Christ was aware that it would take 2000 years of slow but constant evolution of the human energy body for it to sustain enough energy to project 4 angels and follow him in instruction . Judas projects one self and attains the realm but he may only look under the door . He is not able to enter . There are many times when mystics cannot enter a realm on the first attempt . Raising the vibration on subsequent journies allows this entry eventually .

It is funny, for a long time I thought the Bible ridiculously silly and now I think it is ridiculously advanced. Sorry for my beginner's questions

[/quote:1ys46mfr][/quote:1ys46mfr]
I think your questions are very thought provoking actually . The names for the sepiroth , the dragon , the tree of life and more are in the Old Testament and repeated in the New Testament . I never tire of reading the Bible and I always come to it with a new sense of awe and wonder when another truth is revealed . I recommend the online parallel Bible to you . The Hebrew Lexicon helped me a lot with Alchemy and Kabballah references . Archetypical imagery can be searched to find and understand connotations in the text .
http://bible.cc/

[Aunt Clair]

The Sheep and the Goats-he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

Yes ,I agree but it does not stop there . When we became rams at a stage instead of Goats , Christ said we must become shepherds and fishers and not sheep . The bar has been raised lol . He taught us the shepherds lead those who already are on the light path but the fish are more precious they are the lost souls lifted up in soul rescue . Christ teaches that humanity is supposed to forgive itself and empty Hell slowly . There are so many spirits there by their low vibration and not because they have been condemned . They are their own jailers . In the upper realms of the lower planes , there is nothing to prevent them from leaving . Have you seen the film "What Dreams May Come "? The hero , Robyn Williams , saves his wife from her grief and sorrow which mire her there and lifts her up so in love and hope so that she might rejoin her children in the homes of the deceased . I find this film a remarkably apt description of the lower planes and the sea of lost souls . So if you are a fish become a goat.If you are a goat , become a sheep . If you are a sheep, become a shepherd . If you are a shepherd , become a fisher
.... and so it goes . After we become fishers , what task will we do ?
Matt 23:33 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone.
==============================
Matt 13:44-47
44 "Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found, and hid. In his joy, he goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field.
45 "Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who is a merchant seeking fine pearls,
46 who having found one pearl of great price, he went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
47 "Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a dragnet, that was cast into the sea, and gathered some fish of every kind,
=============================
Luke 6:43-45
43 For there is no good tree that brings forth rotten fruit; nor again a rotten tree that brings forth good fruit.
44 For each tree is known by its own fruit. For people don't gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.
45 The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings out that which is good, and the evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings out that which is evil, for out of the abundance of the heart, his mouth speaks.

This is the Tree of Life and the treasure of the Philosopher's Stone . Beneath the tree is the snake of kundalini which causes us to bear good fruits of wisdom and service .
==============================
2 Cor 4 :6-7
6 seeing it is God who said, "Light will shine out of darkness," who has shone in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in clay vessels, that the exceeding greatness of the power may be of God, and not from ourselves.

Our spirit is light in this dark clay of the body . When we escape this clay vessel in projection it is our treasure to experience Godhead and be instructed with esoteric knowledge .
================================
Deut 28:12
24 Lay your treasure in the dust, the gold of Ophir among the stones of the brooks.
25 The Almighty will be your treasure, and precious silver to you.
=================================
Ecc 2:8
8 I also gathered silver and gold for myself, and the treasure of kings and of the provinces. I got myself male and female singers, and the delights of the sons of men-musical instruments, and that of all sorts.

Silver akasha is the Opus Minus .Gold is the Magnum Opus .
=================================

[Freawaru]

The eyes allow for heightened perception clairiently . We were temporarily blinded in the third eye ,for example, and we were tested by Buddha to find hidden doors to tunnels of Seth . This is about overcoming fears , having faith and also about removing illusions .

Well, don't know if this has to do with anything but I have problems to access my third eye - even just in energy work. I rarely get it to even tingling. And I dream a lot about hidden doors and secret ways.

But my temples tingle a lot - even without energy work.

What happend when you came out of this?

There were about 12 of us in a circle when we began to grow bat wings ,horns and a tail .

Were you shocked?

How exactly do you build such a circle and what do you do to rise the energy? Is it something like a guided instruction of NEW?

It was difficult because we had not heard of this and we did not get a clear answer from the spirit teachers . There are times we have to figure out the puzzle as a test and there are lessons which are tests of faith too . It was a relief to find that this stage was written about albeit rarely by mystics before us . It was also interesting that the bat demon only grew on the back of us . The front , at that time , was adorned with flowers and cobras and we looked like Krishna .This was also very confusing at that time because we were all Christian Mystics .

I think Jesus was another avatar.

But Tom had always had an interest in the Hindu Pantheon and he was a great help in interpreting that stage . Kundalni manifested an urn of cobras on the heart and at the pelvis . When the horns , wings and tail disappeared we earned multiple eyes and a crown of cobras instead .
So we looked bizarre still , but no longer demonic .

Do you also feel different? I mean are there other hints that clairvoyant ones of what happend?

There are references to both the buried treasure stone in the garden and the inhumane acts of murderous stoning with rocks .Both occur . It is important to be discerning to understand when there is a subrosa message and when there is nothing more than the literal present in the text .

Well maybe it is just me but I think that to make a law that an animal has to be stoned is more than silly - not to mention that I doubt that it happens very often that a tamed animal kills someone.

Exodus 21:28
"If a bull gores a man or a woman to death, the bull must be stoned to death, and its meat must not be eaten. But the owner of the bull will not be held responsible.
Exodus 21:29
If, however, the bull has had the habit of goring and the owner has been warned but has not kept it penned up and it kills a man or woman, the bull must be stoned and the owner also must be put to death.
Exodus 21:32
If the bull gores a male or female slave, the owner must pay thirty shekels of silver to the master of the slave, and the bull must be stoned.

On the other hand if there is an energetical interpretation I understand why they thought it worthy of writing down. I already know that the terms "man", "woman", "slave", "owner" are not to be interpreted biologically - Meister Eckhart gives some usefull definitions of these states of consciousness.

Deuteronomy 33:17
In majesty he is like a firstborn bull; his horns are the horns of a wild ox. With them he will gore the nations, even those at the ends of the earth. Such are the ten thousands of Ephraim; such are the thousands of Manasseh."

It seems to me that "gore" is another energetical term - do you have an idea or speculation what it could be.

Thanks for the link and the discussion

[Beekeeper]

Aunt Claire,

I have to admit I often get lost in your posts. I just don't have the prerequisite knowledge. But I've read everything you've written here with such excitement and interest.

You said, "When we became rams at a stage instead of Goats , Christ said we must become shepherds and fishers and not sheep ," but how do we ordinary souls know what we are?

You asked, "Have you seen the film "What Dreams May Come "?"
Yes, I have, when it was first out. It really resonated with me, even though it wasn't a huge commercial success. I've always remembered it and it influenced my thinking.

Finally, you declared, "So if you are a fish become a goat. If you are a goat , become a sheep . If you are a sheep, become a shepherd . If you are a shepherd , become a fisher."
I'm such a jaded old thing but your rhetoric has stirred me up!

[Aunt Clair]

The eyes allow for heightened perception clairiently . We were temporarily blinded in the third eye ,for example, and we were tested by Buddha to find hidden doors to tunnels of Seth . This is about overcoming fears , having faith and also about removing illusions .

What happened when you came out of this?

We went into hidden and invisible realms . This was when we learned more about the hidden realms of Daath and learned for the first time about the invisible realms of the aqua sephiroth . One of the invisible qlippoth tunnels lead to the testes off the death chamber for example . The uterus on the other side of the Queen's chamber has been explored and chronicled by earlier mystics but onlyu Aleister Crowley ever mentioned the testicles as being a realm . Each realm is on the body , in the heart and outside of the body in a realm to which we can project .

There were about 12 of us in a circle when we began to grow bat wings ,horns and a tail .

Were you shocked?

Yes , we are eclectic . Some of us were atheists when we began . Some were Buddhists . Most of us were Christians and continue to be Christian eclectic Mystics . So,we were shaken and wondered if our pathworking had been a sham and if we were going a dark path ? It was a test of faith . We were rewarded soon when the lights came on again .

How exactly do you build such a circle

We found each other in open circles, at table tapping groups , at Buddhist Centres , Spiritual Churches , psychic fairs , thru friends and thru syncronicity .

and what do you do to rise the energy?Is it something like a guided instruction of NEW?

NEW is the best method I know of for developing the Human Energy Body . I use Robert Bruce's methods and then modify them according to how we are instructed by spirit . It is a great foundation . Particularly important to power up is to open the feet as Robert Bruce suggests . The effluent and influent centres must be prepared by pushing energy out and pulling energy in ;
http://forums.riverofenlightenment.com/ ... 346.0.html
http://forums.riverofenlightenment.com/ ... 333.0.html

Do you also feel different? I mean are there other hints that clairvoyant ones of what happened?

Yes , you will get visions and dreams as well as sensations in the physical body as you change . If you sit in routine meditation , your clairvoyance will improve and spirit teachers will begin to come to you .

Well maybe it is just me but I think that to make a law that an animal has to be stoned is more than silly -

I agree .

Exodus 21:28
"If a bull gores a man or a woman to death, the bull must be stoned to death, and its meat must not be eaten.

The Bull is a stage of alchemy . The Bull appears as the minotaur in the Labrynth in meditative visions for example . The Bull is part of the Sphinx which is a huge part of Alchemy . The Bull is Earth and red hermetically and symbolises taming the Guardian Demon within .

I already know that the terms "man", "woman", "slave", "owner" are not to be interpreted biologically - Meister Eckhart gives some usefull definitions of these states of consciousness.

Please tell us more . Do you have an url ?

It seems to me that "gore" is another energetical term - do you have an idea or speculation what it could be.

Well , the Red Earth Stone must be gored to release the Guardian Demon . The Guardian Angel projects from the Blue Moon Stone . The Higher Self and the later stage of the united Guardian Angel and Higher Self projects from the Yellow SUn Stone. These are directly beneath each other on the same side of the body . However , the amber stone behind us projects the Lower Self . The Guardian Demon is on the other side . This seperation versus this proximity is one of the clues that the Guardian Demon is not supposed to merge with the Lower Self but that they must be transmuted individually instead . To transmute each the stones are gored . That is ,they are punctured by the mystic to let in light . This is done in energy exercises .

I feel that your ideas are profoundly insightful and that by considering your questions , I have come to new understandings of the subtleties in these texts . Thank you .

[Freawaru]

Aunt Clair,

Regarding "virgin" etc I have tried to find internet sites with the quotes I got from books but no success so far

My source are books written in german so I will try my best to translated the passages I mean.

[Aunt Clair]

I am sorry I do not know what you mean . I would reply but I do not understand . Thanks

[Freawaru]

Aunt Clair,

I am sorry for the long absense. My search for the terminology took longer than expected and is still going on.

However. I can give a short report of my progress.

The "virgin" is defined by Meister Eckhart as "the soul without all alien images". I am not quite sure what the "alien" is, though. In the BIble this term appears usually in connection with the "widow" and the "fatherless". The "widow" seems to be a vipassana/Witnessing state (pure observation, no I-function), at least Mechthild of Magdeburg describes it as a heavenly state and "seeing the unification of the Lamb with the virgins" (the title of the book is "The flowing light of the Divine"). It seems that it is two steps (two copper coins) from Enlightment (Luke 21:2).

The "Fatherless" is the term for an avatar, Jesus was a fatherless for example.

Psalm 68:5
A father to the fatherless, a defender of widows, is God in his holy dwelling.

This is why Jesus could claim God as his father.

"Poor in Spirit" is identical to the sunyata (sunnata), i.e. the voidness, in Eastern terms.

I have been troubled long by not being able to define "man" and "woman" precisely. Meister Eckhart defines them in their relationship to God. "Man" searches for and penetrates into God and "woman" recieves God. But what does this mean? The "soul" itself is female by defininition. After reading John Paul II "Theology of the body", however, I think now that it is very simple. In Genesis the human is created as man and woman. At that point of creation the subject/object duality inside the creature is created and initiated. This means that "man" refers to the "I-function" and "woman" refers to the "me/mine-function" of a person. They are one flesh. We are usually not aware of being merged with both a subject "I" and an object "me/mine", or think they are identical, but from Witness states this can be discerned. It can even be seen when the two are not functioning properly and harmonically - leads to several psycological problems.

Here is a link to the late popes sermons. It took me a while and most everybody else believes he spoke of physical man and women but these definitions lead to inconsistencies inside the sermons while the definition of man as the "I" and woman as the "me" don't, IMO:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2TBIND.HTM

The term "child is born" refers to an identification/merging with the "I" and "mine", i.e. man and woman. "I" and "mine" are there first - thus the term "child" makes some sense. Except for the fatherless child of course, this is the identification/merging with an "I" and "mine" that is not of human origin. I still don't know the exact difference between a "son" and a "daughter", though. I seem to remember reading years ago that Meister Eckhart discerns them, but I have to search for the related sermon again.

"Married ones" or "married couple" refers to Vipassana again. It seems to me that the unification of the "I" and "mine", the unification of the subject-object duality initiates the change of the energetical flow into the sushumna channel - thus pure observation is gained.

So much for now ...

[Tempestinateapot]

The "soul" itself is female by defininition.

Huh? By whose definition? My understanding is that the soul is neither female nor male. Is this an eastern religion belief? I've never heard of it. It sounds really odd. Kind of the opposite of what we've been taught in western religion for so long..."God, the Father".

[Freawaru]

HI again,

Why did you change your name?

The "soul" itself is female by defininition.

Huh? By whose definition? My understanding is that the soul is neither female nor male. Is this an eastern religion belief? I've never heard of it. It sounds really odd. Kind of the opposite of what we've been taught in western religion for so long..."God, the Father".

I am using the Catholic/Orthodox definition here. They are the oldest Christian Churches after all. Gnostics use the soul as a female, too.

Sant John of The Cross for example describes the soul as a she. God is *her* beloved, etc.

But as I said I am not sure what exactly the soul is anyway. I mean the term as used in the Bible is not clear to me. The Catholics do not necessarily have it right

BTW I think that JHWH is the Hindu Atman (The Self). I mean, "I am what I am"! What could it possibly be if not the ultimate subject?