Study Paper

[CFTraveler]

Temporoparietal junction:
Temporal lobe
parietal lobe
junction: where they meet
in other words, around the ear section- a bit to the back.

about the perspective thing: From what I read in the paper, the effect of autoscopy: auto-self, scope- to see
is that you're seeing yourself from your own body, not experiencing being out of body. Like looking in the mirror. Like seeing a reflection/projection of yourself.
Most of these people were experiencing autoscopy, not experiencing the sensory perception of being the reflection.
Even though OBE can have a variety of, well, variety, these people were essentially having the same experience, very limited in symptoms.
So in my opinion, the symptoms were not close to what we call OBE here to call it the same thing.
That's all I'm saying.
I left all the metaphysical stuff out of the critique (the mind-soul connection) because I was inspecting the scientific part of the theory behind the study, and I found it lacking.

[enoch]

I've already donated my brain to science. Hopefully they may spark me up one day in the future (you can't rid of me that easily! )

ok phg...here's a wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parietal_cortex

I'm gonna have to come back and read all this later because my wife is desperate to fiddle about with her i-tunes software.

Temporoparietal junction:
Temporal lobe
parietal lobe
junction: where they meet

Oh, great, Enoch. Way to go...trying to make me feel stupid. I was right after all. I knew I didn't forget everything about A & P. I didn't cut brains apart in my practical lab class for nuttin'. I KNEW it would come in handy some day. It's not only all in the head, it's all in the brain. Which was my point in the first place. Which was that your brain physiology is making you believe things that "might not be true". Now, I'm going to have to emoticon you for that!!!!!!!! Take this:

Aw, great. The emotican server is down. You'll have to content yourself with this:

Uh, Enoch, if you've donated your brain to science, they won't be able to spark it up again. Some medical student will be cutting it up in his/her anatomy class. Ha!

[CFTraveler]

Actually, that was me. But I'll let him take the blame.
Boo a ha ha ha!

[Senheiser]

Thanks, Senheiser. Just the right person to provide info on this.
Just to educate us, could you describe your seizures with a bit more details? And the diagnosis (if it's ok with you- If I'm being too invasive I'll back off.)

Sure it's not something i am ashamed of or evading to talk about

First the diagnose:

ype 1: Idiopathic Generalized Epilepsy

In idiopathic generalized epilepsy, there is often, but not always, a family history of epilepsy. Idiopathic generalized epilepsy tends to appear during childhood or adolescence, although it may not be diagnosed until adulthood. In this type of epilepsy, no nervous system (brain or spinal cord) abnormalities other than the seizures have been identified as of yet. The brain is structurally normal on brain magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scan.

People with idiopathic generalized epilepsy have normal intelligence and the results of the neurological examination and brain scan (MRI) are usually normal. The results of the electroencephalogram (EEG - a test which measures electrical impulses in the brain) may show epileptic discharges affecting the entire brain (so called generalized discharges).

The types of seizures affecting patients with idiopathic generalized epilepsy may include:

* Myoclonic seizures (sudden and very short duration jerking of the extremities
* Absence seizures (staring spells)
* Generalized tonic-clonic seizures (grand mal seizures)

Idiopathic generalized epilepsy is usually treated with medications. Some forms of this condition that may be outgrown, as is the case with childhood absence epilepsy and a large number of patients with juvenile myoclonic epilepsy.

Now the weird thing is i am 25 and still got it, alltho the neuropsychiatrics agreed it was supposed to be gone by now. It shows on EEG (Electroencephalography) only, meaning that Magnetic resonanse and computerised tomography scans are quite normal. It's threated by tegretol but excluding phenobarbital.

Now about the sensations. It usually occurs when i move among crowded places (but not always it can occur anywhere) it's rather hard to explain in words. It's like you are with a friend you are making some conversation and suddenly you feel like you are watching the whole thing on TV or you are in dream. Reality doesen't feel really real in those situations. You have a full control over your actions and can talk normally. Somethimes it's followed by some sort of dizzyness on very low level.

I also think that my overal sight of life has changed since i was a kid. This definetly can't be described with words since what i feel, and see i cannot compare it to others out of a simple reason - i do not know how other people see and feel, in other words i cannot tell if it's normal or not. Long story short i always see some sparky dots changing fast and my image is slightly distorted. In darker places distortion is higher and in dark is highest. If more light is added image get's clearer but there is another prolem with that, dizzyness. More brighter eniroinment means dizzyer for me, unless i am really well rested and with really well i mean a week or two without work, sleeping around 8-9 hours a day and lot's and lot's of sunlight. For example i was with my girlfriend on vacation in Greece and that week everything seemed better. I was driving around 700 km without feeling any abnormalities.

The other annoying thing is the uncontrolled body movements. They occure daily, but most of the time in the relaxation just before you are going to fall asleep. They are short and don't take longer then just one seccond or two, but are highly unpleasant. Once my jaw moved and i almost broke a tooth. I was confused since the doctors said clearly it will manifest with sudden moves of my extremities, but then it happened again that night, my whole head moved.

Then i asked for seccond and even third opinion from other doctors and they all agreed my case isn't exactly classic. Absence seizures, when happen, usually the subject blacks out, well i don't. I am very well aware of my condition in such situations. Only once or twice i had this total black outs, say's my mother and father, but i don't recall having them.

During the seizure, awareness and responsiveness are impaired. People who have them usually don't realize when they've had one. There is no warning before a seizure, and the person is completely alert immediately afterward.

The Generalized tonic-clonic seizures is:

A generalized tonic-clonic seizure is a seizure involving the entire body, usually characterized by muscle rigidity, violent rhythmic muscle contractions, and loss of consciousness. The condition is caused by abnormal electrical activity in the nerve cells of the brain.

Thanks God i don't have those. Those are the classic attacks i think.


Post if you wish to know something else i didn't mention.

[CFTraveler]

Thanks for posting. My brother in law was diagnosed with psychological seizures after his thirties, if you can believe it. He gets absence seizures during the day, letting him know a big one is coming, and when he seizes it's always during sleep, in which he'll get up and start acting like he's having some sort of drug-induced rage, (the doctors liken it to something like Tourrette's syndrome, only more dramatic.) He's on some medications, I believe Neurontin may be one of them, but am not sure, since he also has Fibromyalgia.
Interestingly, he used to get the OBE-like episode where the legs feel like they go up in the air in a strobelike fashion like one of the people in the study. He doesn't get those anymore, I've been told.

[enoch]

cf said (in italics)

My main problem with this is that what these people experienced were visions of their own bodies, without the shift in perspective that comes with an OBE[/i]

But they projected outside their bodies and viewed them from the ceiling?? isn't that the same difference.

I'm not saying that you can't create an OBE experience with the right stimulation, I'm just saying that the examples in that specific study weren't close enough for me to identify with their cases.

I can see that. Judging by the various descriptions I've read here in the forums, the study cases weren't that spectacular, apart from the similarities mentioned above (distorted body image, dual consciousness, shadow-beings, etc.)

I may be wrong here but I think the primary study was obe but they drafted-in epileptics because they have a higher frequency of projections ir separations than most people.

the makers of binaural beats have proven that you can facilitate an OBE by stimulating the right 'buttons' in the brain- IMO a serious scientific study that isn't necessarily looking to find pathology should study the folks that demonstrably have the phenomenon and see what part of their brains light up when they report OBE symptoms (at least those that I can relate to). I think that would be very interesting.

I wonder whether there aren't enough people who project at will. I wonder why RB hasn't participated yet?

If they found out what to stimulate I'd be the first one to volunteer.

That would be awesome.

phg said (in bold character )

So, I'm going to take your word for it that this isn't a location in the brain, but where is it? The foot?

It's funny you mention that because there are cases where people have become their feet!

It's not only all in the head, it's all in the brain.

I wasn't objecting to your "it's all in the head/brain" thing. I was objecting to the "imagination" that you added in brackets. The patients were stimulated in the left temporoparietal junction ...the right hemisphere deals with creativity, vision and imagination.

Now, where's my beer!

I mean, to put it crudely, we know (roughly) how certain psychoactives act on the receptors to induce 'spiritual states' but it doesn't stop people enjoying them, gaining knowledge from them and reaping great mystical/spiritual rewards from them. It changes lives for the better. (and sometimes for the worse).

I've always been of the impression that the brain is a nuts and bolts system genetically engineered to provide the basics for survival (in order for us to successfully reproduce) but there are some gates in there that, when opened, can give us access to a wider picture. I don't care if they find out how to unlock that gate - it's what lies behind it that's exciting!!

edit: now there is another line of research going on at machester uni. The researchers there are exploring the possibility that obe is related to the person's dislike of their own body image. Going along the lines of obe attempts being a form of desperate escapism from a body they're not content with in reality. the results of which were extracted from surveys. (I do believe that particular survey link was added here last year). ?? Fruitless is you ask me, but there you go

[enoch]

http://cref.tripod.com/article_oberesearch.htm

laboratory research info

http://www.bookofjoe.com/2006/10/behindthemedspe_1.html

more recent new york times article covering topics here..and more.

the right hemisphere deals with creativity, vision and imagination.

Oh, no, no, no, my dear! I just saw a program on the Science channel a couple of months ago. The latest research out is showing that many, many areas (previously unrecognized) of the brain are lighting up using CT Scans when creativity and imagination are involved. They think it is a whole brain use phenomenum. It really interested me because of hypnosis and the use of imagination while in trance.

There was also some interesting stuff about hearing and vision not being localized, either. Don't remember the specifics. Vvvveeeerrrryyyy interesting.

[wjjw]

Very interesting. I’d also be interested in the neuroscientific explanation of remote viewing.

Maybe people should experiment more with OBEs in pairs to look for objective characteristics:
http://hrvg.org/newsletter/2002-08/true.html