Is NEW energy ways hypocritical for a humanist?

[Lion]

It would seem to make no sense that something exist before the existence of time, since the word before is, itself a reference to time...

Now you see the theoretical problem of time being created by the explosion of a flyspec. Explosions do not happen outside of, and therefore not prior to, time.

So it would appear that you were asking about something physical, rather than something astral.

Nothing there exists without cause, either.

But I suppose one might argue that such a mutation, though rare, might be possible.

Modern science has never seen any spontaneous mutation which is not a kind of cancer, making evolution impossible.

It's not even reasonable to expect cosmic radiation to form the primordial soup in which microbes supposedly formed. No amount of electricty and magnetism has ever been found to create water, much less an entire ammino acid. Yet it all came from chemicals which spontaneously formed themselves?

[Planet_Jeroen]

Time is non excistant. There is only 'now'. Yesterday and Tomorrow are man made concepts, to express ourselves. Tomorrow never came tho, and Yesterday is only our poor way of recording what happned.

Sure they are handy in our society, but meaningless in reality.

Modern science has never seen any spontaneous mutation which is not a kind of cancer, making evolution impossible.

That we don't understand cause and effect to it's fullest doesn't mean every spontanious mutation is a cancer. Saying that is presumptious in that we already think we know all variables and their meaning.

Given full knowledge of the laws and variables that apply, we would probably think it is perfectly logical that the earth formed the way it did, that species evolved the way they did and that the watch is lying on that path.

We are reverse engeneering it tho, and havent gotten that far with it yet. Saying that something is impossible because you havent witnessed it yet is like denying the existance of a 1000 piece puzzle, because you only have 500 pieces, and you can't make it complete with them.

Everything you see around you is simply a thought put in action. From your keyboard to the trees outside. The only difference is, you know who was the first to think of a keyboard, you don't know who thought of the tree first.

And something else I just thought of, spontanious mutation with the end result being you, me and everybody else on this planet is constantly taking place when the sperm reaches the egg cell's in the womb and unite. I wouldn't call that a cancer.

Regards,

Jeroen

[Lion]

Don't get me wrong. There are some kids I am respectful of.

Time is non excistant.

I guess you mean nonexistent. If E=mc2, then how is the speed of light measured?

Tomorrow never came tho, and Yesterday is only our poor way of recording what happned.

What was 'then'?

Sure they are handy in our society, but meaningless in reality.

What is the reality in which you are operating, right now?

And something else I just thought of, spontanious mutation with the end result being you, me and everybody else on this planet is constantly taking place when the sperm reaches the egg cell's in the womb and unite. I wouldn't call that a cancer.

You weren't even paying attention when you wrote this. If you can't tell that like begetting like does not create original genes, then I will spare you talk of genetics.

It would seem to make no sense that something exist before the existence of time, since the word before is, itself a reference to time...

Now you see the theoretical problem of time being created by the explosion of a flyspec. Explosions do not happen outside of, and therefore not prior to, time.

I see no logical problem to the idea of the Big Bang... One might suppose the 'universe' to be embedded in a greater 'multiverse' having no beginning. Alternatively, one might posit the moment of the Big Bang to be simultaneous with the beginning of time.

So it would appear that you were asking about something physical, rather than something astral.

Nothing there exists without cause, either.

That seems to be a non sequitur to me. My comment was with regard to the nature of the energy you were asking about, not its cause.

But I suppose one might argue that such a mutation, though rare, might be possible.

Modern science has never seen any spontaneous mutation which is not a kind of cancer, making evolution impossible.

There are many things unknown to modern science: The existence of God, for example. But the fact that modern science does not acknowledge God's existence hardly proves that God does not exist. Nor does your conclusion follow.

It's not even reasonable to expect cosmic radiation to form the primordial soup in which microbes supposedly formed. No amount of electricty and magnetism has ever been found to create water, much less an entire ammino acid. Yet it all came from chemicals which spontaneously formed themselves?

Hydrogen and oxygen do form water in a fuel cell, releasing electricity.

Time is non excistant. There is only 'now'. Yesterday and Tomorrow are man made concepts, to express ourselves. Tomorrow never came tho, and Yesterday is only our poor way of recording what happned.

Sure they are handy in our society, but meaningless in reality.

In my humble opinion, it is curious how often people contradict themselves, without realizing it.

Meaning in the sense that a word means such-and-such is entirely dependant on use. Thus, time is useful to the extent that it is meaningful. It is meaningful to the extent that it is useful.

[Chris]

Time is non excistant. There is only 'now'. Yesterday and Tomorrow are man made concepts, to express ourselves. Tomorrow never came tho, and Yesterday is only our poor way of recording what happned.

Sure they are handy in our society, but meaningless in reality.

In my humble opinion, it is curious how often people contradict themselves, without realizing it.

Meaning in the sense that a word means such-and-such is entirely dependant on use. Thus, time is useful to the extent that it is meaningful. It is meaningful to the extent that it is useful.

Time is a confusing subject, according to relativity, time is effected by gravity and speed (relative to an observer). Yet at the point of the big bang, there was near infinite energy and mass, so what effect did this mass have on our predictions of the universe age of around 15 billion years? There are theories emerging now which suggest time is simply the movement of matter in the universe from a low entropy state (big bang) to an increasingly higher state of entropy - this is caused by a negative curvature of the universe (being shaped like a horses saddle). If this is the case, then our time perception is simply perception of increasing states of entropy.

Regarding energy not being destroyed or created, according to quantum physics, energy can be created and destroyed at any point in space. New energy being created is balanced out by the gravity the new energy is effected by. Virtual particles can produce particles from nothing which then continue to break down into other particles. The reverse can happen too. People suggest that this is what the universe actually is.
Other theories for the bigbang are contained within M theory. Our universe is a (mem)brane and the bigbang could have been caused by our brane colliding with another brane and releasing tremendous energy.

All we can be certain of is that our current understanding of time, quantum physics and the universe will alter dramatically as time goes on. So it is best not to take what each of the current theories say too seriously.

Time is a confusing subject, according to relativity, time is effected by gravity and speed (relative to an observer). Yet at the point of the big bang, there was near infinite energy and mass, so what effect did this mass have on our predictions of the universe age of around 15 billion years? There are theories emerging now which suggest time is simply the movement of matter in the universe from a low entropy state (big bang) to an increasingly higher state of entropy - this is caused by a negative curvature of the universe (being shaped like a horses saddle). If this is the case, then our time perception is simply perception of increasing states of entropy.

Regarding energy not being destroyed or created, according to quantum physics, energy can be created and destroyed at any point in space. New energy being created is balanced out by the gravity the new energy is effected by. Virtual particles can produce particles from nothing which then continue to break down into other particles. The reverse can happen too. People suggest that this is what the universe actually is.
Other theories for the bigbang are contained within M theory. Our universe is a (mem)brane and the bigbang could have been caused by our brane colliding with another brane and releasing tremendous energy.

All we can be certain of is that our current understanding of time, quantum physics and the universe will alter dramatically as time goes on. So it is best not to take what each of the current theories say too seriously.

As long as my heart is beating, I shall continue -- fool that I am -- to believe that time is real.

[Chris]

As long as my heart is beating, I shall continue -- fool that I am -- to believe that time is real.

I don’t think that anyone has claimed that time does not exist, they have just pondered on what time actually is.
In these discussions we can either talk on a scientific level (and all that scientific rigor entails) or a philosophical/theoretical level. If we stick to science we work on common ground (such as reality is ‘real’, people are not deterministic driven automations who have been genetically programmed to believe they are aware when they are truly not (See memes) etc).

Something we should take into account is that our perception of time is filtered through a biological brain which has been created through evolution with survival in mind. We actually perceive an absolutely minute amount of the possible sensory data around us, some of it is filtered by the brain as irrelevant to survival, and a huge majority is simply behind our senses to perceive. This means our perception of time is imperfect at best, and vastly distorted to allow us to build a mental construct of reality at worst. I guess this is why people ask such questions of what is real or not, and what is the nature of time. With our current brains, we might not be capable of ever knowing. An example is trying to teach quantum theory to a cat. A cat in its present state of evolution would not have the faculties to ever understand such things.

As long as my heart is beating, I shall continue -- fool that I am -- to believe that time is real.

I don’t think that anyone has claimed that time does not exist, they have just pondered on what time actually is.

Time is non excistant. There is only 'now'. Yesterday and Tomorrow are man made concepts, to express ourselves. Tomorrow never came tho, and Yesterday is only our poor way of recording what happned.

Sure they are handy in our society, but meaningless in reality.

[Chris]

As long as my heart is beating, I shall continue -- fool that I am -- to believe that time is real.

I don’t think that anyone has claimed that time does not exist, they have just pondered on what time actually is.

Time is non excistant. There is only 'now'. Yesterday and Tomorrow are man made concepts, to express ourselves. Tomorrow never came tho, and Yesterday is only our poor way of recording what happned.

Sure they are handy in our society, but meaningless in reality.

well... I missed that one lol.