What OOBE is, and what isn't

[Sephir]

Although I'm a newbe on this forum, I have experienced a lot of projections (approximately 40). I'll share You the method I was using in other topic, however now I'd like to be talking about what the OOBE actually is - in my personal pont of view, of course.

I can't agree with opinion, according to which we experience some kind of perception out of the body.

First, let me say a few words about our perception being in body. We have no idea how the external reality looks like, because we're limited by our 5 senses in our perception. We can't perceive objective reality at all, even some slice of it. In fact, our senses are NOT like windows in our body. We don't see the objective reality using them. Our senses are just like the radio - they are able to deliver some unknown information to our brain. The brain converts the received impulses into a "picture of the external world". But, what exactly exists beyond our senses???

We even cannot imagine the world without a "picture", "sound", "toutch", "smell", "taste". How can we believe in external perception during OOBE? The world beyond the body doesn't contain any visual forms. Our perception during OOBE is closely depended on the brain-memory, and this is a fact.

According to above-mentioned way of thinking :

Is OOBE a proof of the soul existence?
Is OOBE a proof of live after the death?

I know, there are a lot of relations giving evidence of remote perception. I've experienced such things as well. But is there a diference between a dream and OOBE at all? A lot of people have experienced remote perception during a deam also.

And, the last :
Is there a diference between our daily life and our dream? We have nothing about the external world being in both states. In both states we are limited by internal world created by out brain inside us. So, maybe OOBE is the most internal experience? The travel inside internal world...?

________________
sorry for my english

[CFTraveler]

Some of us believe that we create our reality, in waking reality as much as in 'dreamtime'; so about the only difference is that in waking reality we experience the world in timespace, so we create it within the confines of such a 'background', while in the 'sleeptime' the environment is thought responsive, so that whatever we create is practically immediate. So that the 'outside' and the 'inside' are the same, only perception of a point-of view. For labeling purposes only, we classify projection in more traditional or recognizable terms, for purposes of classification- but at least in my opinion, everything is a projection from mind- call it 'group mind', 'the mind of God', or whatever your worldview allows you to conceive.
When we talk about Astral projection we differentiate for practical purposes only, a dream from a projection to the RTZ or the 'astral proper', or whatever else you call it- because if we get too deep into a 'sort of' solipistic way of thinking, discussion becomes pointless, doesn't it? And part of the fun of projecting is talking about it.
That's why we assign values and differentiate one type of projection from another.

[paker7]

I can't agree with opinion, according to which we experience some kind of perception out of the body.

I have a little advice for you:
Before forming any strong opinion about any possible thing, wait until you are really experienced in the matter.

Be like a good scientist who doesn't really know what will happen during his experiment, who always waits for the experiment to finish completely before writing down all resulting data.

[ButterflyWoman]

Before forming any strong opinion about any possible thing, wait until you are really experienced in the matter.

Be like a good scientist who doesn't really know what will happen during his experiment, who always waits for the experiment to finish completely before writing down all resulting data.

That's excellent advice. Automatically deciding that something is fake, unreal, impossible, etc. etc. before you've found out enough just closes doors that could have led to excellent and enlightening places.

[Triot]

The best thing is to try before making conclusions. One thing is
limitations of sensorary perception and how a reality could look
like when removing what is fabric within consciousness, and left
with what is not. Another is limitations of the academic mind.
Sceptic say universe. noooo... me say multiverses.

Can I post a book link here? Like the bible maybe to understand the
mechanics behind dynamic universes.

[CFTraveler]

Can I post a book link here? Like the bible maybe to understand the
mechanics behind dynamic universes.

When you have 20 posts. Don't worry, you're close.

[Chris]

I don’t think Sephir is jumping to conclusions or making assumptions about the OBE state being valid or not, he actually raises a few important issues about the nature of in-body experience and asks what it suggests about OBE state as currently perceived (although I think some confusion does seep into his ideas).
Looking at OBE through a phasing view could answer some of these questions. Such that (as you rightly stated) even perception of body is a construct of brain, built upon stimuli from an ultimately unknown/unknowable source. Likewise, OBEs could also be experienced through consciousness, but the source of them is unknown/unknowable – we simply filter the stimuli through brain pathways which have evolved. So when we are OBE we might be no more out of body (or even in body) then we are when actually moving about in ‘physical’ reality. We might simply be ‘tuning in’ to some other form of stimuli source.

Something I will note is that I’m not one of these people who hold personal experience as greater proof then some form of shared consensus experience. Perception of reality is too distorted on a preconscious level based upon our experiences, desires and attitudes. What we see or think we see is usually not what is actually happening – confabulation bends our experiences into an acceptable form. So we must question our beliefs and experiences even if we want to hold them to be true and indicative of reality at large.

Ps. Sorry if he is a she .

[Akorah]

I like your frame of thought Chris, yours too paker7.

I have only experimented a couple of times with AP/OBE but one experience I had was completely different from the rest... I quite literally dived into pure mind.. it was like being sucked into one of those winamp/media player visualisations with all the psychedelic colours, where there was no form.. just shape, colour, sound and texture continually changing form and at one stage it even felt like liquid and I had no body, only conscious awareness. It was like being a drop of water going into an ocean... it completely warped my view breaking down any conception of there being limitations on the mind.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that everything.. and i mean EVERYTHING is all just a way of perception. Perceiving what exactly? that can never accurately be answered because no matter how we try to perceive it, it will still only be our perception of it. I guess this is the part where i say there is no absolute truth, everything is mind, and I am quite clearly insane.

[CFTraveler]

Welcome to the club!

[Akorah]

lol, thanks i guess.. wheres the lolly tray?