Jesus...

[CFTraveler]

The Quran clearly states that Mohammed is God's last messenger until the coming of the Antichrist. The Bible and the Quran both clearly state that if one does not follow their religion they're destined for hell. Again are you saying the concepts have been misunderstood?

Jumping in for a second, there is also the historicity of the documents that tell us this. How can you be sure that what you are reading is what actually happened? I'm not sure that the prophets were different in development (frankly I think they were more alike that most people think)- My thought is that the personalities we know as Jesus and Mohammed have been shaped by the people that follow/worship them.

I realise that if one lives their life with an honest and open heart... thats the way forward!... I'm trying to steer the topic more into the reasons why two profits got their messages from God so different. (not taking away the similarities)

I really think that we are disregarding the political climate around the time they were here- IMO that's where the differences come from, not from themselves.

According to the Quran Jesus spoke his first words when he was a baby (a few days old? I think) and explained that he was a profit so that everyone didn't think Mary had conceived without marriage and so that everyone didn't think she was going crazy! According to the Bible, Jesus didn't perform his first miracle until the age of 30 (changing water to wine)

This to me is a good example of how a culture defines it's spiritual leaders.

But it's interesting because the differences in religion have shaped our world and culture as it is today i.e. A Muslim woman from Iran leads a completely different life to that of a Christian man in say 'Britain. The religions have shaped cultures and ultimately led to death and war (worst scenario)

I think it's more of a give-and-take situation- the culture shapes the religion, and then the religion shapes the culture, and so it goes until the next religion comes along.

And the two main religions I mentioned (Christianity and Islam) were created by two Men that got their information from the same being, yet they may not have been developed enough to interpret the information they got. E.g. Mohammed was told that Jesus did not die for our sins and was not resurected. Jesus was told that he will die for everyones sin... I think they shaped humanity as it is today... Well at least 3 billion people that believe in each religion.

I think that both versions of the story were around and Mohammed was exposed to one theory (after all, he lived with Christians as a young man, this is historically recorded) than another group.
I believe you have oversimplified christianity as the religion that believes that Jesus died for our sins, and was resurrected. Early christians did not believe this, this only became official doctrine after a few years (possibly the Nicene Council, but maybe down to the Didache- the fact is that even today there are many christian sects that do not believe in this. So it is not that surprising that when Mohammed was alive this was not the christian prevailing belief.
Something that jumped out at me is your statement that the bible says that if you don't believe in Jesus you are going to hell- it actually does not say that anywhere, and having worked at a church for over 4 years I have looked- so where did that idea come from?

[rapidlearner]

Ok here is a reliable source from the Christian Apologetics and Research ministry where it clearly states that Jesus said he was God (not ignoring the fact he said God is in all of us)

http://www.carm.org/doctrine/Jesusisgod.htm

Since the bible states that Jesus is God... The belief is, if one does not ask him to be forgiven for their sins and accept the free gift of salvation then one is destined for hell. Something along those lines anyway...

[CFTraveler]

Ok here is a reliable source from the Christian Apologetics and Research ministry where it clearly states that Jesus said he was God (not ignoring the fact he said God is in all of us)

http://www.carm.org/doctrine/Jesusisgod.htm

Since the bible states that Jesus is God... The belief is, if one does not ask him to be forgiven for their sins and accept the free gift of salvation then one is destined for hell. Something along those lines anyway...

I am not asking where it says that Jesus is God. That is not my question. You showed me how some people interpret what the bible says to mean this. I can interpret the above quotes to say something completely different. What I want is one bible quote that says that if we don't believe in Jesus we will go to hell. That's all.

[rapidlearner]

CFtraveller, I'm sure you know more about the bible than me, having worked in a church...I'm not in competition with you or anything, I only know the basics of the two religions, which I've most probably misinterpreted myself. Which is the whole aim of this thread, to understand that it is how something is interpreted which can cause a chain reaction in society.

Like you say it is interpretations that creates confusion. It's happeining today with suicide bombers thinking they're going to paradise in the name of their God.

The following could be an interpretation of not being saved (going to hell)

"He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who
does not believe will be condemned." (Mark 16:16 RSV)

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the
life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.
(John 14:6 RSV)


But again the question begs... Why do things have to be metaphorical or symbolic? And if its a case of development, how can you be sure that you are at the right stage of development and not interpreting a message literally that was supposed to be metaphorical?

[Palehorse Redivivus]

The Bible and the Quran both clearly state that if one does not follow their religion they're destined for hell. Again are you saying the concepts have been misunderstood?

I am! I am! The Quran is indeed clear (and graphic) on the subject of Hell, but with the Bible its not so clear cut. Christian ideas of "Hell" mostly come from the fact that the word was pasted over four different words that mean completely different things, none of which refer to a place of punishment after death.

I wouldn't recommend taking anything on CARM too seriously either. Its run by a staunch Calvinist posing as a mainstream evangelical; i.e. a very narrow brand of Christian theology coming off like an authority for all Christians everywhere. It also grossly misrepresents other belief systems in order to discredit them, using this same theology that relatively few Christians share.

As a sidenote, interestingly Calvinism, which among other things posits that not only is there a Hell, God deliberately chooses who goes there, is closer to Islamic theology than it is to most other strains of Christian thought.

[rapidlearner]

I am! I am!

Ha ha Yes, at last!

So it is all about interpretations... One can be absolutly sure of what something means when in fact it could be a metaphore. It's kind of like the Homer effect, I can just imagine people smacking their heads at the pearly gates screaming "Doh" When God says "No no no.. It was a metaphore!"

[journyman161]

Ha ha Yes, at last!

So it is all about interpretations... One can be absolutly sure of what something means when in fact it could be a metaphore. It's kind of like the Homer effect, I can just imagine people smacking their heads at the pearly gates screaming "Doh" When God says "No no no.. It was a metaphore!"

You may want to have a read of this thread There's a definite possibility that everything is interpretation.

The problem with discussions about beliefs is that beliefs don't rely on anything real. When they (beliefs) are used as the foundations for a life, it leaves the believer open to all kinds of manipulation. You only have to look at how the supposed teachings of Christ have been manipulated to be justification for mass murder & terror. Mohammed formed a very tolerant society initially, one in which other religions were not only allowed, but given the protection of the Muslim empire. Look at it now.

Even if the original instigators of the religions were real & had great vision, their teachings have been corrupted & twisted to mean whatever those in power wish them to be.

[sorana]

You could go and mentally project and talk to Jesus yourself about what he believed and his opinions on what people do in his name. I'm sure you will have an interesting conversation with him.

lol. Now this line was so inspired!

[U-Mos]

i don't know what the akishak records say but im under the impression that the astral plain is extremely mold-able by the minds of the mases that the akishak records is polluted with mythology and popular opinion so what ever you do find there may be the polutants and not what really happened.

personally im a firmly believe that jesus is a mythological charter and there is quite a bit of evidence supporting that fact in the physical world. you can find the sake down on this movie.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
you only need to watch the fist part. and search up "the god who wasn't there" on you tube

[CEP2plet]

When bringing up the Akashic Records, it's hard not to think of Edgar Cayce. Cayce himself has said that the only reason he was able to access the Akashic Records so frequently and readily is because he had no intention of using the information in the Records for profit or personal/corporate/political/religious gain whatsoever. The Records were only readily accessible to him because he used the information to help heal others. He was known as the "sleeping doctor", because that's how he would figure out what to prescribe to his patients to heal whatever ailments they had was by falling asleep and accessing the Akashic Records. Cayce never attended or graduated from medical school in his life. Anyway, if you're planning on accessing the Records, there MIGHT be a "subscrition fee", aka agreement of good will/intent (I'm only saying this because of Cayce's experience of it).