"Out-of-Body Experiences Simulated" - with link in

[blowk]

Sort of: Ehrsson didn't undertake an indepth study of the phenomenon, but simply performed an experiment and postulated some theories on the results. The analysis admits that it doesn't have any real answers, and it didn't set out with any real questions, the experiment was just an experiment. However, the researchers did say that it was interesting and at the very least it opened up the possibilities for further research using similar techniques that might tentatively tackle the phenomenon head on. Further, the research only dealt with one part of one aspect of the OBE experience, namely seeing your own body from a different perspective. The experiment, importantly, did not simulate the full OBE experience, and thus there is nothing to say or infer about exit symptoms, astral vision and all the other stuff.

Later, journalists have put their spin on the experiment and made further postulations about the 'meaning' of the results.

Personally, I think that experiments such as this ultimately show the limits of science, rather than its potentiality.

[Blue Mage]

Well, to amend what I said, there are other factors. Sometimes they just want to word things such that they don't offend people's sensibilities. News sources don't want to look like one of those supermarket tabloids with stories about batboy and whatnot. But even then, why not just not-mention the story at all? Conspiracy theory-cist in me says that its so people with vague interest don't actually see the actual program, and just read the little blurb in the newspaper, and then consider themselves informed and then "go back to sleep".

[LightMan]

Well, to amend what I said, there are other factors. Sometimes they just want to word things such that they don't offend people's sensibilities. News sources don't want to look like one of those supermarket tabloids with stories about batboy and whatnot. But even then, why not just not-mention the story at all? Conspiracy theory-cist in me says that its so people with vague interest don't actually see the actual program, and just read the little blurb in the newspaper, and then consider themselves informed and then "go back to sleep".

What he said ^^^

I believe that too much of our news media is manipulated to get across fear and focus on the negatives in any way possible. This is the best way to control people after all, with fear. I mean, as a side note, you can't turn on the news these days and hear all the happy positive things going on in the world ( maybe sometimes ) but always the wars, crimes etc - I prefer to read the news on-line so I can pick and choose what I want to read. I do care about all the suffering in the world but I don't want to get depressed over it - can't afford to, so I read the headlines on such material. Seems spiritual matters are being put down whenever possible as well which is so sad.

[White Wolf]

What he said ^^^

I believe that too much of our news media is manipulated to get across fear and focus on the negatives in any way possible. This is the best way to control people after all, with fear. I mean, as a side note, you can't turn on the news these days and hear all the happy positive things going on in the world ( maybe sometimes ) but always the wars, crimes etc - I prefer to read the news on-line so I can pick and choose what I want to read. I do care about all the suffering in the world but I don't want to get depressed over it - can't afford to, so I read the headlines on such material. Seems spiritual matters are being put down whenever possible as well which is so sad.

While I agree that there is too much negativity in the press, you can always turn it around the other way too from an economics standpoint.

The press (supply) wouldn't keep reporting on nagative stuff, if people stopped listening to it. Its not like the press is force feeding the stuff to people, its just that people love being sad/worried/angry (demand).

There have been several attempts to report a more resprentative new program and even all positive programs, but it is as best a niche market so far. People just don't care to hear about other people that are happier than themselves.

If there was a demand for positive news, you bet that the powers that be would find a way meet that demand. There just simply isn't one.

Lets look at it another way. Who many times a week do you hear about how something bad happened to some common friend/aquaintance. You know the scenario. You meet up with an old friend you haven't seen in a while and what words eventually come out? "Did you hear what happened to so and so?" The news is almost never good. Its small talk, people use it to get reaquainted, but it is almost alway negative news that gets exchanged. Usualy, the good news seems to almost always get missed. I found out an old friend got married and now has 2 children and everything is going well, and it takes years to get that news. Someone dies, and I find out the next day.

Its human nature. Pure and simple. I'm not saying its bad or good. It is just how it is. CNN/ABC/FOX are all just supplying what people want.

[LightMan]

The press (supply) wouldn't keep reporting on nagative stuff, if people stopped listening to it. Its not like the press is force feeding the stuff to people, its just that people love being sad/worried/angry (demand).

I guess so, but many people that I'm acquainted with will agree on what I said above. I think it's good to stay informed about all the bad stuff but like everything else news reporting needs balance. Our local TV news, Calendar, has that balance with positive and negative reports and I find myself wanting to tune into that regularly. With the main news I can't help but feel anxious when it starts.

People just don't care to hear about other people that are happier than themselves.

I know .

If there was a demand for positive news, you bet that the powers that be would find a way meet that demand. There just simply isn't one.

Isn't that the truth . I know of people who simply skip the news altogether because they find it too depressing.

You meet up with an old friend you haven't seen in a while and what words eventually come out? "Did you hear what happened to so and so?" The news is almost never good. Its small talk, people use it to get reaquainted, but it is almost alway negative news that gets exchanged. Usualy, the good news seems to almost always get missed.

Yeah, I find that too. When telling someone something positive about someone else I mostly get an "oh," an "I see" or a nod but when catching up with someone I haven't seen for a long while they do seem interested in the good things as well.

Its human nature. Pure and simple. I'm not saying its bad or good. It is just how it is. CNN/ABC/FOX are all just supplying what people want.

Fair enough .

[blowk]

For those who tend towards the cynical when it comes "The Media", I heartily recommend Noam Chomsky. A work like 'Understanding Power' is great bed time reading. It's kind of like Orwell's 1984 but more plausible and of the 'now' rather than tomorrow. It will help confirm your suspicions while giving you lots more intellectual ammunition rather than lame mud slinging.

[Blue Mage]

I don't think it's human nature to only be interested in negative stuff. If you go to other countries or communities you see that people can be so completely different than what you are used to. Humankind has so much great potential, we just need to realize it. There is such an onslaught of conditioning a person can take from birth such that hardly anyone knows who they really are.

[White Wolf]

I don't think it's human nature to only be interested in negative stuff. If you go to other countries or communities you see that people can be so completely different than what you are used to. Humankind has so much great potential, we just need to realize it. There is such an onslaught of conditioning a person can take from birth such that hardly anyone knows who they really are.

Well, I'll grant you that much, I think. I could be observing a predominately western phenomenon, which has influenced all the cultures I have observed. But I can say that it is true of the many people that I've met in the great many states I've visited in the US and currently reside, as well as Japan, Thailand, East Timor, and the Phillipines. As well as witnessed through personal relationships with persons from Austalia, China, Korea, France, England, Germany, Russia, Malaysia and India.

Obviously, I can't say with absolute certainty as I haven't spoken with everyone in the whole world, but I choose to believe that I have a pretty good impression of what human traits transend cultural barriers.

I'm not being sacastic, please don't take it that way. I'm just saying that maybe naive or purposeful optimism leads peope to think that such negativity isn't an ingrained pattern fro most of the people in the world.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying that such a thing is bad either. Listening up and pasing on tramatic experiences is a very useful survival trait. You hear that someone died because they were driving drunk and it helps make the penalties from that behavior more real and you are more likely to not do such a thing. Not so much of that type of useful information gets passed with positive news i think, which is why people say that all they hear is bad news. Maybe its just because it is the only news with useful information.

To bring a recent example into play, we can see some of this in action. I had several topics passed to me in conversation recently. Like I said earlier, one was that a friend had gotten married and had two children and was living a good life. Its uplifting, but there's really not much useful information there. Maybe that finding a good partner that I would be willing to have children with is a good experience? Like I said, not much information is being passed.

On the other hand, there's was news of a old friends death. He had died in a car accident, he apparently pulled out in front of a speeding car. There some good information there. It makes real the lesson to be careful while driving and to be extra careful of the other driver and don't misjudge speed.

Another friend died of heart failure. She was severly obese. I think the lesson is pretty clear. If you don't take care of you body, it won't take care of you.

Don't get me wrong. I was hurt when I found out about both of their deaths. But by passing the news, their lessons can be taught, and maybe thier deaths weren't in vein.

Maybe we hear about bad news more than good news is that bad news has a higher intrinsic value.

[Tim Brewer]

I actually thought it was a cool article. I don't think they were trying to disprove or belittle anyone's OBE experiences. They were just showing that the perception of "self" isn't always tied to the physical body, which, if anything, supports OBE - even if this was only "virtual". I didn't see where it said "They reproduce the illusion" as Korpo writes, but even if they don't believe OBEs are real, this article does nothing to convince me of that, nor do I feel it was their intention.

I also don't think that by showing the "mind can be tricked" that they are trying to say OBEs are simply tricks of the mind. This past Thursday, my mind was tricked into thinking it was Wednesday. That does not mean that Wednesdays aren't real!

I like the way you think

[Flash_hound]

I think these experiments, while interesting, don't prove anything.

1) They don't have any explicit exit symptoms.
2) They don't control the OOB point of view, it is simply there.
3) It is a mind trick, and it isn't an "experience" meaning, there wasn't anything significant it was just an outside perception of your body.

As far as negative news being predominant, I think the reason people like to listen to negative news is because they like to feel involved. It's simply that people like to feel like they are involved. It feeds their ego to watch negative news because they get to demonstrate sympathy to others. Great. They feel like they are "educated" in what is "really going on in the world". For example you get people who seem all enlightened by saying, "Well somewhere else in the world with $5 they could live for a week! How could they charge that much for a hamburger!" It's called economy my friend...

It's simply that people like to feel like they are knowledgeable and sophisticated and have a knowledge of the world around them, but they don't want to leave their couches to become so.