How would yo feel if...

[rapidlearner]

OBE's were scientifically proven to be hallucinations of the brain. Would it bother you?

I know I'm being hyperthetical and the subjectiveness of it all makes it difficult to assume but let's just say... what if!

I'll be honest I want them to be real. But I don't like selling myself short by just believing... One day I'm convinced, the next, I think it's just some sort of brain loop hole especially given "mind awake, body asleep" state that is occuring.

I know the reasons why I want them to be real - there are psychological terms but lets just say it's my little link to the afterlife and for me once they're proved, I'll take comfort from it. (Lol I would normally label someone else with that kind of psychology but again I think I'm just being honest)

If they were scientifically proven to be hallucinations, it would be another dent in evidence in the paranormall field and I'd feel gutted.

[CFTraveler]

I don't. I feel that knowing yourself is the most important thing you can learn, because self-knowledge is the key to successful interactions with others. And if the astral proved to be objectified subconscious, it still would be a great way to find out what's beneath the mind, the basic mover, so to speak. So I think it's very valuable, regardless.

[wstein]

I have seriously considered that many metaphysical/religious experiences are not hallucinations or 'real' but rather altered perceptions created by modifying the function of the brain. OK, it would be more satisfying if these things are external rather than internal. But still, it would be exciting to know that the functions of the brain can be changed under our control.

[White Wolf]

I frequently contemplate whether or not that experiences I've had so far were real or not. I often come to the same conclusion. My scientific mind tells me its most probably a hallucination of some sort and my intuition tells me that it is real. Despite the conflicts though, the have the same end point. The experiences, effects of the functional welness of my body, and the mind expanding nature of the work, all tell me that its a very positive occupation. The net result, whether real or not, still has the same beneficial effects.

I choose to believe that it is real, because it is the simplest explaination for a great many of the phenomenon that I've observed. Sure, I can make broad generalization, without equal scientific backing that would attempt to dsiprove it, but that would just undermine one of the basic process that I hold dear, the scientific method. I can't use science to prove or disprove these experiences. Not in any self consistant method that I know. I don't know of a way to disprove a subjective experience with objective methods without running into deep philosophical conflicts with the basic assumptions taht make science work in the first place.

There's lots of science that we know is incorrect, they are called theories. I view much of the knowledge in the arcane and mystic realms to be theories. One of the basic functions of a theory is that it models behavior, explains phenomenon, and makes predictions. Science hasn't been able to explain a lot of the experiences that I've had so far, and I'm just beginning.

Whereas, careful selection of the occult ideas that I've had experience with has lead to a much deeper understanding, as well as a guidebook of how to proceed further. It explains and makes predictions with only a sacrifice of objectivity to subjectivity. I can handle that, and will continue to do so, until science, via my own or someone elses research, is able to give me a more powerful theory, if that day comes.

[Beekeeper]

I wouldn't be bothered if they were hallucinations and I'd still try to induce them because, basically, I'd still enjoy marvelling at what my own brain can do.

Why I do not believe they are merely hallucinations is because of the few things I've been able to verify in the RTZ after a RTZ OBE and because I feel they're on a continuum with dreaming and I have had numerous predictive dreams.

[ButterflyWoman]

I don't think science can "prove" anything of the sort. My faith in science is fairly limited. I have nothing against science, but there's a great deal in the realms of human experience that science can't begin to measure, let alone prove or disprove.

But, hey, that's just me.

[Three_Nails]

In this sort of thing, I see both sides of the OBE argument, however, what I have read from men I trust such as Robert Bruce and what I have experienced with OBE bring me to feel that all of it is real. I was looking for answers and got sent me on my way to becoming and introvert. The Lord wouldn't stray me on this path if it wouldn't help me get closer to him.

Thats all the "Proof" I need. Faith, people.

[Aunt Clair]

I completely reject any empiral "Proofs " that the energy body does not project from the physical self . We are so far past that as a race .

If you sit in a circle and develop your clairvoyance , you will see yourself and your peers lift up from the body and you will have no reason to doubt it anymore .

This is not a new age fluffball . This is ancient wisdom that is the legacy of the human race .

[Blue Mage]

Scientists would have about as much luck disproving gravity. I'm with aunt clair here, we should be past this "is it real" stuff.

But playing along, I would find it a relief, in a way. OBE means there is so much to see and experience and explore out there, it means there is so much work to do.

[White Wolf]

I completely reject any empiral "Proofs " that the energy body does not project from the physical self . We are so far past that as a race .

Which is great because I don't any method by which to disprove a subjective experience. You can disprove objective theories, but not subjective ones. Disproving a subjective experience is like using double negatives; its doesn't make sense. As an operand, a double negation may bu useful as a stepwise simplification, but when you try to generalize it less abstractly, the meaning is many time lost.

Science fundamentally makes one assumption that makes analyzing subjective experience nonsense. It assumes that there is an objective "center" by which observations can be made. Using the rules of science, in the early part of the century, physicists discovered that there is no such thing as a observer. The very act of observation changes the experiment (see double slit experiements like the Aspect experiements, position/momentum exclusivity).

It is ironic that subjective experience was abandoned, for good reason I think, only to later find out that was there all along. That subjective experience is the fundamental foundation of the philosophy that denies (science) it is endless humorous to me.

Its not all bad though. Just look at all the mouths that science has fed compared to spirituality...so you can't knock people for wanting to understand through processes that are familiar.

I really don't think we are "past that as a race". The vast majority of people are asleep and others are just looking for an escape from thier troubles. Escapism is religion and dogma. I'd rather more people stayed alseep before that becomes more prevalent.

The double negative that is science is going to bring the vast majority into understanding, even if goes around the moon to do it. Technology will free peope from the shackles of thier 9-5 prision towards more leasurely persuits and with that comes time for introspection and the realization of truth.

It'll take a bit longer, but I think we are on the cusp of a great curve in our abilities as a race. We've given our technology enough momentum to carry us to a singularity beyond which we can not see, except that it will no doubt be profound. The next 50 years is going to be very exciting I think.

Well, I suppose I've rambled enough.