How much easier can it get to have OBEs?

[gigaschatten]

Repeat when going to sleep, do it until you fade out or get into trance. One of the above will happen if you don't stop.

"When I command myself 'relax', my body will be fully relaxed.
When I command myself 'exit', I will leave my physical body.
I will remember everything."

When you enter trance (vibrations, heaviness, etc.), give yourself the 'exit' trigger command. If you don't, have a nice sleep and try again another time, but beginning with giving yourself the 'relax' command. You can also use the 'relax' trigger anytime you're stressed. You must know though what deep relaxation is, so exercise it.

Do it every day/night. Sooner or later, you will be able to 'relax' instantly and 'exit' your body afterwards.

Welcome to the happy and useful world of programming your subconscious! Yes, finally I found an effective way that is to my liking. And the good thing is, the more often you do it, the more effective it gets.

Please post your experiences with it.

[Deadliner]

How long did you have to use this technique in order for it to work? Whenever I've tried to use such methods I always fail, maybe beacuse I don't believe that something like this can happen, i.e. give myself a "command" and follow it automatically...

[gigaschatten]

Works like a charm so far. I didn't have a full exit tonight but after a series of SP (and "dweller") experiences there was a gentle pulling feeling and my "body" was lifted. This was after SP weared off.

I didn't enter trance when using my mantra, but a few hours later at night. Suppose the subconscious took its own time.

It's the second night I'm using that method, back to bed now.

@Deadliner: This method does not require you to believe in it, but you (on a subconscious level) must want it. The technique is derived from hypnosis (which is nothing else but a trance) and suggestion (which you can also call subliminal messages). You follow such triggers all your life, it's like a learned reflex of the mind. It's known though that some few people don't respond to hypnosis easily or at all. A multibillion dollar industry - marketing - relies on it, though they're usually not that lucky to catch you in a trancelike state, unless you prefer to doze with your TV on. <paranoia>Even the government likes to use it ("One thousand repetitions make one truth.").</paranoia>

How does it work? Basically like a mantra; repeating the sentences focusses your mind on them, distracting you from the body and blocking your mind from anything else, but the mind also gets extremely bored after a while, being strongly subchallenged, which can induce trance. This effect is also known e.g. from listening to minimal music. A trance is a state of improved learning and lowered psychic blockades, allowing access to the subconscious, which will be very receptive to suggestions then, especially if those resemble something it desires (like having OBEs or LDs).

So giving your subconscious the message above in a state of trance, it likely will adapt it. The subconscious (usually) will not adapt anything that it does not feel comfortable with, that's why you can't tell someone who is hypnotized to kill himself (unless he's strongly suicidal) or get undressed and run down the street naked. There are ways to bybass that though e.g. like telling you're going to take a shower after emphasizing how dirty you feel, a situation one would normally take off clothes, so the subconscious - unaware of the real environment - does not contradict it, especially when "the water is nice and warm" ... you get the point. This is dangerous stuff to mess with, if someone abuses it. But in that case we use it ourselves.

Remember the triggers a show hypnotist uses: "Snap, and you're awake, blow in face, and you fall in trance again."? Those triggers we program here are pretty much the same, but it is made clear that only you ("When *I* command myself ...") can use them.

Many new age mysticists refer to the brain as computer hardware and to the consciousness as its software. I wonder, why they don't take the direct approach in programming it then ... well, it's not that spectacular, isn't it? As I see most (or about all) of the methods currently used for inducing OBEs, they have two things in common: 1. Relaxation / trance and 2. Suggestion (ROPE, visualization, rolling out ...). There you go. I have to admit, that ROPE is a very strong suggestion, though I doubt it actually "puts pressure on the astral body", which is a strong suggestion as well. Of course, a bit of show amplifies the impact on your subconscious.

This should give you a hint, why or why not this method works. Don't use it when driving a car (I do mean it!). Anything that applies to hypnosis, applies to this as well, remember: Hypnosis = trance. You may find it very interesting to read about dissociation in that context, I'm sure it will ring a few bells if you've dealed with OBE. It still lacks a well-founded explanation, but it may not be as mystical as you may think. I said 'may'.

Have a nice trip and don't forget to tell me how it works. Maybe you have ideas how to further optimize that method.

[Deadliner]

Gigaschatten,

thanks a lot for your elaborate reply. Even though I'm quite open-minded and believe in OOBEs and many other stuff, hypnosis is one of those domains that I have no strong beliefs in. I have definitely seen things happening on TV and people supposed to be put to trances in a very short time, and perhaps that's the reason it's not convincing me - the fact that I need a lot of time and effort to go into trance myself!

But I guess it's also a matter of precoccupation. When you're in a TV show for a specific purpose (to become hypnotized) and you know there's a special person, the hypnotists who does this easily, then when it's time to face him you're already prepared and just awai the commands. Maybe.

Anyway, the chapter of hypnosis and self-hypnosis is quite vast, so we better focus on the part of it that has to do with OOBEs. I've read about methods of going into an OOBE by using suggestions but never really tried it. First of all, Robert Monroe uses similar suggestions to help oneself to go into the various Foci, or come back from them. I've been trying to command myself to go to Focus 10, like he suggested, but I don't think it really happened. But then again maybe it needs more practice.

William Buhlman also state that his method of going into an OOBE was mostly by suggesting himself, actually repeating a mantra like "I am now out of body". Once (or twice) I tried this, but I don't think it worked. I guess it needs more time, determination and some belief in it.

I do not discard this theory at all, actually if it holds true it may be one of the easiest techniques for an OOBE, although experiences would always be spontaneous. Perhaps what's holding me back is the feeling that I want my conscious mind to have control of me and my experiences, and not my subsconscious!

But I would like to experiment a bit with this technique. Could you be a bit more elaborate on how you're using it? With details, like, when to start saying the mantra, when you're in bed, before, all day? How many times do you have to say it, do you have to block your mind from all other thoughts, etc etc

Thanks a lot!

[Three_Nails]

Deadliner - How can you not put stock into hypnosis? If you can put yourself into a trance, who is to say, that if you put your trust into someone like a hypnotist that they couldn't help you enter trance? Have you ever done a guided meditation? Like with an MP3 or something? Its gotta be sort of the same thing just with a guy in the room with you. I've recently been reading about groups of Projectors/Introverts getting together and helping eachother develop and explore the astral plane.

[gigaschatten]

After reading your post gigaschatten I really feel like a shower.

LOL, yeah, me too.

[Deadliner]

Deadliner - How can you not put stock into hypnosis? If you can put yourself into a trance, who is to say, that if you put your trust into someone like a hypnotist that they couldn't help you enter trance? Have you ever done a guided meditation? Like with an MP3 or something? Its gotta be sort of the same thing just with a guy in the room with you. I've recently been reading about groups of Projectors/Introverts getting together and helping eachother develop and explore the astral plane.

Sorry but I don't really get your point here

Maybe it's my english...

[gigaschatten]

Gigaschatten,

thanks a lot for your elaborate reply. Even though I'm quite open-minded and believe in OOBEs and many other stuff, hypnosis is one of those domains that I have no strong beliefs in. I have definitely seen things happening on TV and people supposed to be put to trances in a very short time, and perhaps that's the reason it's not convincing me - the fact that I need a lot of time and effort to go into trance myself!

But I guess it's also a matter of precoccupation. When you're in a TV show for a specific purpose (to become hypnotized) and you know there's a special person, the hypnotists who does this easily, then when it's time to face him you're already prepared and just awai the commands. Maybe.

Anyway, the chapter of hypnosis and self-hypnosis is quite vast, so we better focus on the part of it that has to do with OOBEs. I've read about methods of going into an OOBE by using suggestions but never really tried it. First of all, Robert Monroe uses similar suggestions to help oneself to go into the various Foci, or come back from them. I've been trying to command myself to go to Focus 10, like he suggested, but I don't think it really happened. But then again maybe it needs more practice.

William Buhlman also state that his method of going into an OOBE was mostly by suggesting himself, actually repeating a mantra like "I am now out of body". Once (or twice) I tried this, but I don't think it worked. I guess it needs more time, determination and some belief in it.

I do not discard this theory at all, actually if it holds true it may be one of the easiest techniques for an OOBE, although experiences would always be spontaneous.

'Hypnosis' is just a word. Replace it with 'trance' and it won't change a thing, no matter if self-induced or otherwise commenced. It is all about losing physical awareness and suggestion/affirmation. Suggestion has many shapes. If you want, light black candles, sacrifice a goat and mumble strange verses, all the same. You try to convince your subconscious. You try to change your very own reality. And because we can never be objective, this changes all reality ... from your point of view of course, the only one you have.

Don't misunderstand me, I am not denying the possibility of dimensions that exist outside the reach of science. Our physical senses are indeed very limited and reality is a construct of the mind, filling empty gaps and creating context that doesn't exist objectively. Time itself is a construct of the mind. I find the thought, that the brain is just a receiver for an independent consciousness in order to control the physical body quite interesting and alluring as well.

Neverthless, there are explanations for OBE that would be accordant to scientifical logic ... and I am not talking about an "all just hallucination, your mind is farting" attitude. Let me give you one example just to think about:

(1) In a "normal" state, your mind receives sensorial input.
(2) Reality is an interpretation of the mind of that input.
(3) We take away body awareness (equal to sensorial input).

What is left for the mind to interpret?

(4) It may be, that without any more sensorial input, the mind begins creating a reality on its own, probably based on the interpretation of experience (memory), emotions, the subconscious and the conscious, to list a few of the most likely factors.

It's not more or less real than any other reality, just an interpretation ... or imagination? Who can tell? We can even go further and assume that (1) is evoked by (4) and reality is basically a feedback loop of imagination and a paradoxon. Prove me wrong!

That is not necessarily what I am convinced of, it's a thought experiment. But as you see, various explanations may be fully compliant with your reception of things. What matters in the end are your personal beliefs. In fact that's all truth we'll ever have, maybe all there ever is. A stone thrown upwards will fall down, no matter if you say that it happens because of gravity or because god wanted it that way and you cannot be sure that this empirically derived 'rule' will be valid forever. Choose and belief or 'choose to believe', which is the principle of affirmation/suggestion.

Perhaps what's holding me back is the feeling that I want my conscious mind to have control of me and my experiences, and not my subsconscious!

Here's another thought experiment: What if you are fully controlled by your subconscious all the time and consciousness is just a side-effect like waves on the surface of an ocean. All your conscious decisions could be just a mental justification for something the subconscious already determined long before. (That's not a very new idea, S. Freud considered the consciousness - the *I* - as a mediator between animalistic motivations - the subconsciousness - and the higher self, which could be seen as a social imprint. Sometimes the consciousness breaks with the strain ... yet, which part makes the decisions?)

Here's more: What if every move you make is predetermined and the sensation of the will is simply a consequence, but not the cause? (I think this is an idea represented by Wittgenstein.)

Considering the above, control is a very uncertain thing. You may feel in control when reacting, but it might be also that what provokes your reaction is really in control ... hen, egg, egg, hen. I'm repeating myself when I say now, that only belief matters, once again. Could the fear of your consciousness losing control be rooted in your subconscious?

You see, nothing is just simple. The rabbit hole goes a lot deeper though.

Use what you feel comfortable with.

But I would like to experiment a bit with this technique. Could you be a bit more elaborate on how you're using it? With details, like, when to start saying the mantra, when you're in bed, before, all day? How many times do you have to say it, do you have to block your mind from all other thoughts, etc etc

I am using my 'mantra' when I go to bed, repeating it until I just fall asleep or enter trance state. It may also happen (as I recently learned), that I fall asleep first to wake up later in a trance. Just repeat and repeat and repeat and so on. But do it with conviction, slowly and with grave pronounciation. Don't let yourself get distracted, keep to it, don't concentrate too hard, just focus your attention on it. You don't have to speak it aloud, just thinking it with your inner voice is sufficient. That's all, it's really that simple.

Today I was on a tradeshow. I hate all that noise, rooms with many people give me a very unpleasant feeling. I successfully used my 'relax' trigger, a nice side-effect.

I will go on using my "mantra" whenever I have time, e.g. in public transportation. Earplugs may help me with that. Also I have to try variations of the mantra. It's just a first draft if you want and I'm sure it can be improved a lot, making it stronger or extending it for example with a trigger allowing you to enter trance at once. Maybe three triggers, one to relax, one to enter trance and one to exit show best results when activated in sequence. Time for more experimentation. Please tell me if you found out anything more.

Thanks a lot!

Sure, anytime.

[Three_Nails]

Deadliner - Let me try to clarify.

You said you didn't put much stock into hypnosis. My experience with hypnosis has been that it isn't much different than a guided meditation, which I know works if you put your trust into the person performing the walkthrough. So what's not to believe? Is all I am saying... Any better?

[Deadliner]

Deadliner - Let me try to clarify.

You said you didn't put much stock into hypnosis. My experience with hypnosis has been that it isn't much different than a guided meditation, which I know works if you put your trust into the person performing the walkthrough. So what's not to believe? Is all I am saying... Any better?

(I guess the phrase "to put much stock in something" kinf of startled me!)

Guiding yourself into relaxation IMHO is kind of different than what I imagine as subconsciously obeying commands and therefore reach the desired state. I mean, the first case (of guided meditation) is one where you are slowly guided to feel relaxed etc, while the second one, if it works, is where you command yourself "relax" and it happens automatically.

I have tried to do this some times till now, but it didn't work But I guess that it needs some practice...