IMPORTANT: I need a Robert Bruce answer here

[Anastrophe]

This is my first post and i will keep it as short as possible.

Robert Bruce answering my question is of utmost importance, because it is this issue of "respect" and the fact that I want HIS answer to what happened to me, therefore of course its not in a book.

I laid down, i felt my secondary energy centers, my inner hands, my bottom feet, my toes, my arms, my legs, i was feeling this energy around me.

I started doing a full body energy circuit, breathing in, drawing from my legs, arms, into my solar plexus, and i built up the energy.

First off, how long do i have to build energy before i project? How long does that take? When i start, time goes away....i just sit there and focus.

Below is a story that I SAW during this projection.....or I think I saw....thing is.....Im not really sure, but i will post it anyway.

i was lying down on my bed

i climbed a rope, it went higher and higher, there was a circle in my ceiling where it was
a gap and the rope went thru. I started climbing, and the first few pulls at the rope were hard. It seems as I got further away, the climbing was easier. I got at least a few hundred feet up, and looked around…I could see the street, outside and around the neighborhood. My neighbors were outside, garages open, one with a cigarette, talking to each other about meaningless neighborly conversations. I sat there for a minute and looked around, at everything. It was dark, the sun had just recently set, and at my position I could barely see an edge of it. I climbed further and I saw the entire west coast, people on the beaches, people scattered all across the entire west shoreline, and it not nearly as dark as it was. Everything was distant, but I could see far. I climbed further, at least 3,000 feet up, I didn’t have a very good sense of measurement, I was just…..way high up on this rope. From here, I could see everything for far. I climbed further, got up in space, and I saw satellites, rotating, huge giant structures flying past me. I climbed further to get out of the way, and in the direction of the sun was a blinding light. I squinted and I could see it burning, flowing, soundless. As soon as I entered space, sound stopped. A cliff appeared out of nowhere, and I walked it to it’s rocky narrow end. It was a red cliff, and as I looked around, I saw seemingly on mars now. It was quiet, desolate, yet there was sounds of light winds blowing by. I walked past and saw the ruins of the robots we left up there. There were very dusty, and seeing it was humbling. I decided to jump off this cliff backwards, as there was a white bottom with no end. I fell….for a long time. As I fell thru, I saw people, all of them blue, and the whiteness that I was falling thru seemed energetic. I was falling so fast at such a seemingless end, that the falling feeling nearly stopped. Then, I started slowing down, and I suddenly appeared back near the surface of the world. Now, there were no satellites rotating the world. I Immediately noticed that the world was coated in grass. Long, green Grass. As I went into the world, closer in, I could see gigantic domes over areas of the world that would now be where main areas of population are at. I got level, and I was flying around…and I decided to go to one that looked around the Washington d.c. area. There were no oceans at all….it was strange. I went thru this gigantic dome, and I saw strange buildings. As I touched ground again, I looked around. They were all at least 200 feet tall, and about 100 feet wide, squared. At the top of each one was a larger square structure with a rounded front side, with windows scattered around this top floor. There were some, they fit right into eachother, and buildings were stacked like puzzle pieces to make a large diagonal structure. I saw things flying, but they weren’t large enough to be airplanes of today..they were much smaller, and there was constantly one flying overhead. I noticed that I saw many different types of people, some looking like complete aliens. Some were wearing white robes….one unnerving looking being was all in white, with a black type of shirt over the upper half of his cloak. He had a brown green, wooden textured skin, elongated fingers, and a staff with a glowing red orb floating around in the middle of it. All these people seemed to be intermingling, talking, and if the emotion of happiness could express the mentality of these beings, it seems the appropriate one. Nobody seemed hard at work, everyone seemed contemplative. Some looked as though their clothing was painted on, and humans, although wearing a variety of clothing abound, I saw a group wearing thick blue leather pants and shirts. They all looked so odd, I almost didn’t know what I was looking at. Some had a thin gold ring aside each side of their head, but it seemed few. Those who did were doing all of their actions telepathically. Everyone seemed to be having a good time, there seemed to be people purchasing long white poles that could change shape, they would collapse into a ball and float aside the purchaser. I saw an odd person with three indentations on each side of his face, and his forehead curved up into a small q that slightly protruded in front of the upper front side of his head. It was odd, they all seemed to notice me, and they all seemed to be curious of me. I had approached from the sky, and while seeing them, they were all staring at me. There were oval eyes, round eyes, human eyes, all on me. One, the one with the q on his head finally asked who I was, and I said that my name was Ryan…and I didn’t really know where I was. It seemed odd that they spoke my language, and others were questioning me from within my head. I felt as if I had been probed mentally, and everyone seemed to ease. The one called me a traveler and said that he has never seen me, therefore, I have probably never been this far before. “Far?” I said, I didn’t even know where I was. He said I was what sounded like…the Quaalri dimension. They told me how they were advanced, and how they go all around the multiverse, and there are many shortcuts that take many years off, but their curiosity had arisen because they said that I didn’t travel like them. I said again that I didn’t really know how or where I was, and I was wondering what the domes were. They said that it catches the pollution of their vehicles, which gets turned back into energy. I asked what they have learned, and they said that the multiverse is a large maze that they are simply exploring. All of a sudden, there was a pull at my spine, and I started falling again. This time, I fell straight thru this planet, forcibly, back outside to outer space, and quicker and quicker thru the darkness until I was instantly back thru our atmosphere again. I slammed against the ground, the dirt in the desert, and I was writhing in pain. None of this seemed to make any sense, and it took me a minute to get on my feet. When I opened my eyes, everything was blurry, and I couldn’t move. I felt paralyzed, I looked over at my friend, and I couldn’t move at all. I was shaking, vibrating really heavily, and it took 10 minutes for every muscle to loosen up My hands were the last things to relax, and amazed at this, I went downstairs, and said something to my dad, who, still seeing me shaking and tensed up, thought that I did some sort of crazy drug. When I tried to explain all of this that had happened, I was confronted by complete ridicule. Regardless, it was amazing, and I plan on doing it again. 

HERES THE BIGGEST PART

When i woke up, my friend, in the room, said, as i experienced, that i was jolting around, twitching physically. I woke up and I was PARALYZED!! Not just that, i was shaking, vibrating HEAVILY. Now....it wasn't just a minor thing, i was paralyzed for a good 10-15 minutes...SURGING with energy.

THe whole "projection" I was like...so ....am i supposed to CLEAR my mind, or keep my mind on one thought??


Am i supposed to sink down in the elevator technique? Or rise up like the rope technique?

Am i supposed to CLEAR my head, or keep one thought going?

How do i know for sure if i'm going? or if i'm gone?

Why did i have such heavy heavy sensations and surges when i think...i came back?

Why was my physical body twitching so much?

Can i project in a noisy environment, or do i need absolute silence?

Am i supposed to just think of "whatever pops up" or a specific thought?

I just want to make sure i am doing it right and i spent a lot of hard earned money on your books and read them.

THerefore, i thank you, Robert Bruce, in advance, for replying to my question personally

I may have follow up, and i thank you for taking your time to reply to that. It shows me you don't care about the money, you care about enlightening all of us, and that makes you very respectable.

[Korpo]

Sorry, Anastrophe, but I still think most if not all of your questions are answered in Robert's books and tutorials.

Sleep paralysis, as a phenomenon before or in relation to OBE is well-known, so are heavy exit sensations especially for novice projectors.

Your physical body was probably twitching because the heightened energy flow in your subtler energy bodies triggered blockages in your physical body, which can cause twitches and spasms.

Basically I think your questions are answered very well in "Mastering Astral Projection", and "Astral Dynamics" could provide further background information.

I don't like the suggestion that Robert's books are pricey. They are fairly inexpensive. Therefore I cannot understand the "lot of hard earned money" comment.

Oliver

[journyman161]

And if cost is a problem you can look at the tutorials at http://www.astraldynamics.com and also check out your local library. The forums here are also a good source of information on most of what you are asking about.

Please read http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewto ... highlight=
and realise that, because Robert is trying to provide as much information, for free, as he can while still arranging to have food on his plate, his time here is limited.

Many people who claim to have knowledge will provide a website with lots of leading info but nothing you can actually use until you 'join' & pay - Robert is not one of these.

[CFTraveler]

Anastrophe, if you are serious about wanting to get Robert's feedback on your question, then you need to make it short and simple, and put it in the 'Ask Robert' section again, provided it is not already answered on the tutorials. A long detailed post like the one you wrote will definitely not get answered, he'll just tell you to condense it, and if it's been answered already, he'll just point you to where it was, as the mods did.

First off, how long do i have to build energy before i project? How long does that take? When i start, time goes away....i just sit there and focus.

From a week to a month, depending on how developed you are.

THe whole "projection" I was like...so ....am i supposed to CLEAR my mind, or keep my mind on one thought??

Whatever works for you to stay in trance.

Am i supposed to sink down in the elevator technique? Or rise up like the rope technique?

the elevator is a trance technique, the rope is an exit technique. Read the treatise.

Am i supposed to CLEAR my head, or keep one thought going?

Whatever works for you.

How do i know for sure if i'm going? or if i'm gone?

Try to get up. If you float up, you're gone. If you move, you're not in trance. But trance symptoms are clearly described in the treatise.

Why did i have such heavy heavy sensations and surges when i think...i came back?

That's in the treatise, and it happens to everyone when they are starting out.

Why was my physical body twitching so much?

Everybody's body twitches when they're asleep (ever seen someone else dreaming?) It's just that you are conscious of this when doing this work.

Can i project in a noisy environment, or do i need absolute silence?

Depends on you- can you trance in a noisy environment, or do you need absolute silence?

Am i supposed to just think of "whatever pops up" or a specific thought?

Practice mind taming, but don't let it consume you. In other words, whatever works for you.

I just want to make sure i am doing it right and i spent a lot of hard earned money on your books and read them.

If you did, you'd already know some of the answers to your questions, as they are clearly answered in MAP at the very least.

THerefore, i thank you, Robert Bruce, in advance, for replying to my question personally

That's up to him, of course.

I may have follow up, and i thank you for taking your time to reply to that. It shows me you don't care about the money, you care about enlightening all of us, and that makes you very respectable.

Maybe you should read all the tutorials? They are free, which shows exactly what you talked about.

[Anastrophe]

Well you see, i figured being as descriptive as possible would help detail what exactly was happening with me, and maybe i could help the answerer further analyze how to answer my question.

I don't like the suggestion that Robert's books are pricey. They are fairly inexpensive. Therefore I cannot understand the "lot of hard earned money" comment.

Oliver

30.00 for astral dynamics
25.00 for mastering astral projection.

with tax, around 60 dollars. may not be a lot to you, but everyone is in different income levels....and i bought them at a bookstore instead of online.

Sleep paralysis, as a phenomenon before or in relation to OBE is well-known, so are heavy exit sensations especially for novice projectors.

In the book Robert said it may last a few seconds or so....i was shaking and vibrating so heavily, and i was paralyzed in a tense position...i was talking to my friend thru tensed chattered teeth, and then i could stand up, but i couldnt move my entire upper half, then my fingertips started working, and all of that took about 10 minutes. 5 minutes afterwards i was still feeling heavy vibrations that made me jitter like i was on 10 cups of coffee.

And then one of you says the twitching was blockage, the other says its what your body does when it's sleeping.

First off, how long do i have to build energy before i project? How long does that take? When i start, time goes away....i just sit there and focus.
From a week to a month, depending on how developed you are.

Well, i am new to it, and as in his books, maybe i shouldnt have projected yet, but here's what i THOUGHT you were supposed to do before you project every time.

Lie down, hold arms up.

Do deep breathing, visualize the air, as a green cloud, and focus on that...going in, and out.

Then right after you start that, start to FEEL all of your fingers and toes, feel the energy running through you.

Do a full body energy circuit, breathing in, starting from your feet, up your body, up your hands, meet it all in the back of your throat, down your throat, and into the solar plexus.

Do this until you have energy running thru you to the point where you are vibrating.

The breathing keeps you focused on just the breathing.

But as far as a trance state, if im lying or sitting there breathing, when do i decide to grab the rope and come out? wouldn't that be a conscious thought?

do i think about the room around me, or do i think about where i'm gojng?

If im going somewhere random, how do i know what i'm seeing, if i focus on it, how do i know im not losing concentration by having multiple thoughts going now?

How do i know, as a beginner, when im out for sure? Am i supposed to just jump out to my room?

Dont you have to get a certain distance from your body, otherwise it will pull you back in?

I'm not very reassured by the "do whatever works for you" answers, because Robert Bruce is very definitive, and yet you all answered very broadly.

I believe that you can travel, as soon as you are ready. I traveled on my own by choice, i was in my room with the lights off and door locked

I woke up, it was open, the lights were on....so i decided to read into it more.

Haven't read mastering astral projection yet, but i had caught that some of these things in astral dynamics are contradictory.

I made that comment about Robert answering my questions because i could tell off the bat that he wasnt going to.

If you guys can provide the answers i need for clarification, well, i don't even need to talk to him then.

Thing is, as im reading, im having these questions...and projecting is about building your energy,...and then...here's the biggest thing.

Clear my mind?

focus on one thought?

dont say whatever works for you. if i focus on one thought, wouldnt i be keeping my conscious mind awake? therefore not allowing my subconscious to take over? how do i know when that would have happened?

In the book, he shows techniques into completely silencing your mind...blanking it out...well then if you're a blank slate, how are you to be aware of anything, especially consciously jumping out of your body?

Tell me to read the book...still wont get it, im doing that already...clarify for me, and it is appreciated. As i was displaying above, give me step by step, broken down as far as you can, as to what exactly, mentally and physically, you all do to project.

There was a quote in the book....imagination is visualization, visualization is imagination....

since visualization would be realistic visuals, visions, such as nostradamus' visions of the future, that would be a clearer definition of visuals...visuals are unlimited as sometimes you see what you cant imagine.

imagination is what i imagine, and is limited to whatever i can think up of, and whatever i can put together mentally.

but if it goes hand in hand, its as if i am just thinking this all up, or it is all happening randomly.

dont get me wrong, i believe in this 100% and i can tell while doing the energy exercises that i didnt need to do anything twice..he says feel second energy circuits, day 1, bam, i felt them. feel awareness hands, instantly, i got them. i have a heightened sense of things and i want to jump out asap.

I'm not afraid of what happened to me being paralyzed....i wrote that story up while i had projected...i had felt the sensations of flying and floating and vibrating

Physically, i was aware of everything around me, i was listening to the music and my friend playing his game...it seemed as if i was deeply relaxed, then i started the rapid vibration and paralysis, then i woke up.

But, you get that paralysis only when you had left right? you are paralyzed because your energy isnt back yet and you woke up too early?

I want to make sure im not taking the wrong path down this training, because as robert said in his book, you can create bad habits in training, so i'd like to clarify and catch them before i go further.

again thank you all.

[Anastrophe]

Maybe im worrying too much...the way in which i write some things may seem offensive but it's not meant to be that way. I think i'll just do more reading,

[CFTraveler]

Dear Anastrophe:
It does appear to me that you are stressing out too much about this- try to relax! This is supposed to be fun!
I'm sorry if we seemed to 'gang' up on you. I understand you may have some questions, I'll try to revisit them as I know:

And then one of you says the twitching was blockage, the other says its what your body does when it's sleeping.

Obviously he and I disagree, because we come from different camps. What I know: When you fall asleep, your muscles twitch. If you don't believe me look at anyone who is sleeping. I have a child, and watch him sleep all the time. (That's when they're cutest). do you have a pet? Have you seen them sleeping?
When you go into a trance, what you are doing is putting your body to sleep but staying aware. Your body does what it always does- it systematically twitches, the only difference is that now you are aware of this.
I understand that sometimes blocks may be perceived as causing twitching, but I think the twitching that are related to them are violent, repetitive, and obviously caused by stress- have you been in the situation where you are very distressed (maybe in the middle of an argument) and then your eyes start twitching? The causal relationship of blocks and twitching is perceptual- a case of chicken and the egg. Which causes which? I think that they're both affected by trauma of any kind (physical, mental or emotional). So yes, 'nervous twitches' can indicate blocks. But to say one causes the other is a matter of perception and opinion.
And yes, it is ok to disagree.
But what I am trying to drive home here is that muscle twitches are common and normal, and nothing to worry about in this context.

Do deep breathing, visualize the air, as a green cloud, and focus on that...going in, and out.

I always visualize a white cloud. The purpose of this is to clear out negativity from your energy body.

Then right after you start that, start to FEEL all of your fingers and toes, feel the energy running through you.

Sounds right.

Do a full body energy circuit, breathing in, starting from your feet, up your body, up your hands, meet it all in the back of your throat, down your throat, and into the solar plexus.

Ok?

Do this until you have energy running thru you to the point where you are vibrating.

Not everyone vibrates. A tingling is perfectly sufficient.

The breathing keeps you focused on just the breathing.

Ok.

But as far as a trance state, if im lying or sitting there breathing, when do i decide to grab the rope and come out? wouldn't that be a conscious thought?

Yes, you are supposed to have conscious thoughts. Consciousness in this case is awareness.

do i think about the room around me, or do i think about where i'm gojng?

In my experience it's better to think of where you are, as in 'the spot you're sitting or laying at', because trying to think of anything else can get your subconscious turning your thoughts into a dream.

If im going somewhere random, how do i know what i'm seeing, if i focus on it, how do i know im not losing concentration by having multiple thoughts going now?

I don't understand the question. You don't know what you're seeing? You're seeing what you're seeing. Think of yourself as an observer. It doesn't matter what kind of thoughts you're having, because when you run out of energy you'll come back. Focusing on one object will help you stay in one place longer, but I still don't see what the problem with 'thinking' is.

How do i know, as a beginner, when im out for sure? Am i supposed to just jump out to my room?

If you can fly you're out- that is unmistakeable. You don't have to jump out of your room- float around it. If you have any doubts, I can't help you.

Dont you have to get a certain distance from your body, otherwise it will pull you back in?

Yes, but even if it does, you still will know you got out. In fact, short trips are best for beginners, because the experience will stay with you.

I'm not very reassured by the "do whatever works for you" answers, because Robert Bruce is very definitive, and yet you all answered very broadly.

Robert is very definite about how to do his techniques, but when it comes to mind taming (which is what I notice seems to get you more concerned) everyone is different, and you have to tailor the techniques for 'how your mind works.'

Some other things:
Robert recommends raising one arm to keep you from falling asleep, but he makes it clear that this is not necessary if that is not your problem. If it takes you three hours to get into trance, chances are you are not going to have to put your arm up. However, if you are (like my hubby) asleep two seconds after laying down, then, yes, raise that arm.

Vibrations are variable. There is no way to predict how severe they will be for you. Most 'new' projectors will have heavy, strong, and oftentimes loud vibrations- like having a chainsaw on your chest, or like being in the middle of an earhquake (I used to have those when younger). But when you do it over and over, they smooth out and if you do it long enough, you may not get any vibrations at all.
Some people never get any vibrations. The thing is to realize that OBE is a subjective experience, and as such, the variety of symptoms and experience vary greatly among projectors.

The beauty of MAP is that it gives you a good guide on how long to do things before you move on to the next thing. Each exercise has a minimum and maximum time limit to do the exercises (at least in book form). Following those guidelines is a good first step. It establishes a good routine to follow, and will give you a feel for how long it will take you to do something. Once you finish MAP, then you can taylor the routine to what works for you, and you will keep changing it, because what works for you will change as you change.

Please realize that the reason that Robert created these forums (and pays for them too) is so that members can post their own experiences and can compare to other posters. There is a wealth of information here about what works for who, what doesn't, and why.
Make use of them, that's why they are here.

Haven't read mastering astral projection yet, but i had caught that some of these things in astral dynamics are contradictory.

I have not read anything contradictory, but some things are subject to interpretation. MAP answers some of your next questions, so I recommend you read that one first.

Clear my mind?

Means don't think of your problems or worries, nothing more.

focus on one thought?

For the same reason- keeps you from going from thought to thought.

dont say whatever works for you. if i focus on one thought, wouldnt i be keeping my conscious mind awake? therefore not allowing my subconscious to take over?

Yes, that is the point.

how do i know when that would have happened?

When you are not blindingly accepting what doesn't make sense.
In other words, when you have a regular old dream, anything can happen and you accept it. Vampires in your room, pink elephants flying by, it's all ok to your subconscious mind, because it doesn't doubt, question, or judge. When you are in trance (body asleep and mind awake) you are judging everything you see- "My eyes are closed, yet I can see, I must be either dreaming or getting ready to project." "Wow, I'm floating! This isn't normal! I must be getting out of my body". That's lucidity, or 'being conscious'.

In the book, he shows techniques into completely silencing your mind...blanking it out...well then if you're a blank slate, how are you to be aware of anything, especially consciously jumping out of your body?

Because blanking your mind doesn't mean passing out, it means controlling what you think about, and just observe. You don't stop perceiving, just talking like a monkey to yourself about it. (a.k.a. 'monkey mind')

Tell me to read the book...still wont get it, im doing that already...clarify for me, and it is appreciated. As i was displaying above, give me step by step, broken down as far as you can, as to what exactly, mentally and physically, you all do to project.

For that you have to go to the OBE section and look at OBE journals. They're all over the place, mostly in the OBE forum and/or MAP Part 1, 2, or Success Stories.

There was a quote in the book....imagination is visualization, visualization is imagination....

since visualization would be realistic visuals, visions, such as nostradamus' visions of the future, that would be a clearer definition of visuals...visuals are unlimited as sometimes you see what you cant imagine.

imagination is what i imagine, and is limited to whatever i can think up of, and whatever i can put together mentally.

but if it goes hand in hand, its as if i am just thinking this all up, or it is all happening randomly.

What? I don't understand the question.
Visualizing is getting a mental picture of something in your mind.
Visuals are those pictures.
Imagining is creating the pictures in your mind. It's not the same as 'getting visuals', because 'getting' implies that it comes from somewhere other than your mind.
So you can 'get visuals' without visualizing. However, I'm not sure where the question was there.

But, you get that paralysis only when you had left right? you are paralyzed because your energy isnt back yet and you woke up too early?

Not understanding the question, I'll tell you what I know:
When your brain goes into REM your body produces chemicals to paralyze your body to protect you from yourself. This is also the time you project, so if you wake up paralyzed, two things happened- you woke up while in the REM state and haven't broken the state yet, so you're paralyzed. If you woke up with vibes, chances are you just returned from a short trip, and are not fully integrated yet. However, your body hasn't 'gotten the memo' yet, and is still paralyzed. Part of you could still be 'partly projected' and you can see things from your body that are not 'objectively real'. So yes, it was a projection, but not an OBE as a matter of perception. (That is, you didn't have the experience of projecting, but you actually did project.) I hope that wasn't too confusing.

I want to make sure im not taking the wrong path down this training, because as robert said in his book, you can create bad habits in training, so i'd like to clarify and catch them before i go further.

It doesn't seem to me you're doing anything wrong, except sweating the small stuff.

[Anastrophe]

awesome...thank you.

So according to the story that i wrote in bold originally, does it sound like i projected or not? Im thinking (and as the response above is, that i did, therefore that's partially why i was paralyzed)

I took memories from a lost OBE, which the book said was rare, and all energy exercises i have done immediately. I think i'm one of those with heightened senses, my lack was understanding what exactly to do.

What gets me was the fact that i have NEVER had sleep paralysis, and when projecting, i awoke in a state of extreme paralysis, so i definitely do think something is there...i did feel the feelings of flying and falling.

Anyway, i know i have to be more patient, so im gonna read from these books, and maybe post later on...but i see my further questions as a waste of all your time, as i guess the answers are in the books.

So, sorry about that, thanks for replying, and again, if you can assess if i left or not from what i told you would help me understand what happened that night.

I have 2 memories for that time frame....strange indeed.

[wstein]

I have 2 memories for that time frame....strange indeed.

Very rare and a good thing. It shows much promise.

Rather than stopping entirely, I suggest some moderation. Perhaps individual questions posted one at a time in the appropiate forums.

[CFTraveler]

So according to the story that i wrote in bold originally, does it sound like i projected or not? Im thinking (and as the response above is, that i did, therefore that's partially why i was paralyzed)

That's what it sounds like to me.