Looking for books about the subtler details of meditation

[Korpo]

alwayson4,

From hours of trancing continuously my experience is that trance is not the key ingredient, but happens along the way. I was capable of trancing well rather soon, but trance is not the secret of meditation, but only one of the things that happens along the way, IMO. While I got some interesting experiences during trance, only meditative training gave me experiences that are results of meditation, like increasing one-pointedness, detached observer state, etc.

I personally think that the key is more training the use of your awareness:

* Focus on a single thing continuously.
* Being capable of attaining a state of detached observation, like a meta-awareness.

Pretty much like Tom said.

What Robert describes is meditation according to the principles of pure concentration, what Tom described is meditation more along the lines of mindfulness. It seems to me for observing the mind mindfulness might be more appropriate, which I came to think also because of personal experience.

This requires training the mind, and trance itself does not help with it. I had trances where the incessant chatter just went on, the mind sped up or slowed, but the practice bestowed no peace. I think trance alone cannot do that or is the key. An untamed monkey mind stays an untamed monkey mind in trance, too, according to my experiences.

IMO trance is tuning to another frequency band, but it does not change the awareness perceiving that band. Meditation is actually changing the observing awareness gradually so that it can observe what actually is going on by detaching like Tom described. Trance just shifts the mind's primary focus out of the physical. If the mind is untrained, it still just goes on and on and not much is gained, IMO.

Oliver

[Korpo]

PS -

I had one particular experience during using Hemisync tapes. Time would randomly slow down or even seem to stop. A definitive sign of a rather deep trance. Between sentences that Monroe said an arbitrary time passed, seeming like minutes or longer when in fact but only seconds. On one occasion even Monroe's voice slowed to half speed. Such are the distortions of trance.

At the same time my mind was overcharged, bored, unruly, agitated, bored. All characteristics of the monkey mind. The trance did not produce a meditative state, it just changed my mind's "location" on the frequency band of human experience, skipping into ranges where time perception ceases. But it was still the same unruly mind as before.

Opposed to that meditation and focus on an object can bring periods of prolonged stillness, where the chatter ceases as the mind focuses more and more on the object and less and less energy is directed at the chattering awareness. I could perceive how the mind would slowly turn away from external senses and redirect awareness into the object at hand. I could feel my focus narrowing, which I believe was the beginning of one-pointedness.

Also observation can lead to totally different perceptions, where my mind would gradually perceive itself detached from ego voice, emotions and thought. Being capable of perceiving thoughts and the ego voice as separate things that are not me, but which I could perceive from "a distance". First the thoughts started racing, then the mind detached and let the thoughts race, everything went by but did no longer sap my energy and grab my awareness. My awareness amusedly touched upon things that came up and went in a sense of "How interesting" but without being engrossed by it. Then things suddenly slowed and I could observe a single thought as something concrete and separate. My mind's detachment had led into a state where awareness decoupled itself and observed the mind it is usually enthralled into.

IMO none of these states are actually enabled by trance, but instead enabled by the kind of awareness you cultivate in a given moment.

Oliver

[Korpo]

My big thing has been breath awareness meditation with the idea of learning to experience "the watcher". There are the experiences you have, the awareness of the experiences, and the awareness in the moment of being aware of having experiences. It is like lucid dreaming but the lucidity is while awake - just know what you are experiencing while you are experiencing it, because it creates a gap between the awareness and the experience. As the gap increases, you begin to see that your body, your emotions, your thoughts, and even your mind itself are not you. The process goes on until nothing is left that you can call you. At that point everything will be reversed - you are not separate from anything or anyone. That's the funny thing about zero and infinity. The breath is useful because you have it with you no matter where you go. It is a convenient point to be aware of, much more reliable than your thoughts and emotions can be.

I would be quite interested in the specific techniques you used.

I have a hard time understanding techniques like "noting" or "labelling", also I still wonder what the exact knack is with observing for example your thoughts. I would be glad to hear more about this gap, because to me this point seems vital to what you explained, and perhaps you could rephrase a bit so I can learn more about it. How to induce that gap.

Thank you,
Oliver

[Tom]

You are right. The gap between observer and object is vital. Usually there is a tendency to blur the distinction between the two, especially with thoughts and emotions. People will say "I am angry" or "I am sad" or "I am confused" and that is the actual experience - if you are identifying with a thought, an emotion, or a physical sensation then the gap is not there. Have you had a stomachache or a headache that you have taken medicine for, and the pain is still there, but somehow it seems farther away and you can't really care about it as much somehow? That is like what I mean by the gap ... you are here and the experience is over there, so it is not you really. At the same time you are aware of it and you can be aware of being aware of it. The content does not matter. It is about watching as you watch yourself. I wish I could remember the details of a study I read about. There is a section of the brain that responds when you develop this sort of awareness and it grows with use by forming new connections between the neurons. You are literally re-wiring your brain when you cultivate this ability, and the ability grows stronger as this re-wiring takes place. I think I read about it over on another forum (http://www.transparentcorp.com/community/forum/) because someone had posted a thread about the article. But to get to the point, I sort of borrowed from the Sedona Method. When you hold an object in your hand, you can blur the feeling of where your hand ends and the object begins by squeezing it tightly. After a while it can become difficult to let the object go. If you do get your hand to relax you can let go of the object by turning your hand over and letting it fall. There is another way to hold on to the object, though. You can let it rest on your hand, without squeezing it, so that when you want you can hold the object and when you want to let it go all you have to do is tilt your hand and it will roll off. It is possible to hold on to your thoughts and emotions in the same way, recognizing that you have them but they are not who you are, and that you can let them slide away at any time. What you have to keep working at is the tendency to grab the object again right away after you let it fall and put it back in your hand. You may have to let go many times before you can let it stay gone. You can let it go whether you have held it for twenty seconds or twenty years. Where I went with this was that I held objects in my hand - literally - because even though I would feel the object in my hand I would not be likely to mistake myself for something like a pen or pencil or stapler. I am not an office supply. It took a bit of practice before I got the idea of the observer, the observed, and the gap between the two. Being the watcher is about being present and watching in the gap. It is a step above the observer even and the experience is more continuous.

Labelling didn't work for me, either.

[Korpo]

Thank you very much, Tom, you're helping me a great deal.

I had a strong experience of that gap, but didn't induce it. I just know there is a kind of mental tension that just habitually holds on in an iron grip to the usual stuff, and that it can also be let gone of. I just could not find the "lever" to make that happen - to drop that link that habitually holds on to thoughts.

Thanks for your insights,
Oliver

[alwayson4]

Korpo

The mind will constantly chatter, but keep focused on whatever you are doing at the present moment throughout the day. Do not identify with thoughts. Thoughts are not you. Thoughts and the mind are like a burned rope, seemingly useful, but when grasped fall apart.

Thoughts are necessary sometimes, just dont identify with them to the point of exclusion like most people do. Identify with the current reality of the present moment, the only thing that ever is. Thoughts then start to take on a different quality...a quality of being icing on the cake, rather than the cake itself.