May I introduce the highest Buddist practice?

[ps24eva]

You would have to refute my point about the Divine Eye being the third eye strobe Vision Screen.

As you know, the Divine Eye is the most important ability in Theravada.

I am certain that the fourth jhana is simply a full trance state.

[Tom]

It was enough to provide links to how to get to jhana. It is a sort of out-of-body experience in that the body remains in the physical world and at the same time the mind goes to the level of various heavens. You could say that in the 4th jhana the mind reaches a higher level of heaven than in the 1st jhana.

[ps24eva]

In the fourth jhana, the divine eye appears, where the practitioner can view any person, any place, any time, including the heavens.

Before the divine eye manifests, there is a flash of inner light onto which the practitioner must focus.

Sounds exactly like the vision screen in Astral Dynamics!

And I think Gautama Buddha admitted non-buddhists could obtain the divine eye

So basically one should completely master wake induced OBE. The same skills are useful for many things including thogal.

[Tom]

Astral projection is one of the siddhis (accomplishments) listed both as a result of the 4th jhana and in the chapter on siddhis in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali. I agree that all of these things are related and connected. If I have a point to make it is that you do not seem to value foundation type exercises. One of the biggest mistakes I have made was to think of preliminary exercises as something to do quickly in order to discard in favor of more interesting practices. It is something I would like to think I have stopped doing.

[ps24eva]

What is more foundational than wake induced OBE?

Reread my post.

I am saying, start out with wake induced OBE


Regarding siddhis, in the literature it says that raising kundalini gives one siddhis. If you believe Robert Bruce raised his kundalini, he says all his psychic abilities became stronger after a period of stabilization. Therefore logically the so called ancient siddhis are simply clairvoyance, vision screen, and OBE.

[Tom]

What I mean is that the quality of out-of-body experience that one has after mastering the 4th jhana or various pranayama exercises is probably very different than what is experienced with astral projection alone, even if it is astral projection either way and we can talk about the experience the same way.

[ps24eva]

Its the same. You would realize this, if you read the primary sources...or had practical experience with wake induced OBE

You need to do pranayama even to do OBE as advocated by Robert Bruce. He talks about breath in Astral Dynamics and in posts in the "Ask Robert Bruce" section.

[CFTraveler]

Its the same. You would realize this, if you read the primary sources...or had practical experience with wake induced OBE

No insults. I won't say it again.

[Hastor]

CFTraveler, would you happen to know any good books related to higher energy practices such as kundalini or the rainbow body? Tom gave two good sites discussing the preliminary Jhana which would help with providing a foundation. Any material would be very welcome.

Thanks,
Hastor

[CFTraveler]

I believe either Tom or Oliver would be the people to ask- Oliver is on sabbatical, though. What I do is not specific enough.