Teenagers and OBE.

[Hastor]

After reading through some articles on here i have noticed a few minors in this group and their presence has caused
me to question the affects of Out of Body Experiances on the developing human body. Many of the well accomplished
projectors i have heard of seem to be older than 18 which leads me to wonder wether the developing human body
hinders the abilities of projectors.

On the other hand, i remember reading in one of Robert's books that very young children often experiance Projection naturally
whichmakes me wonder wether such a developmental stage is the closing end on a time period a heightened natural Projection
ability.

The last question that came to mind did wile i was reading one of the various articles that finds corrolations between
reading as a child and increased brain activity as an adult. This made me question wether attempts at projection during
younger years has a positive or negative affect on projection ability as an adult. Thank you for any help in this little study
of mine. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Korpo]

Many assume that children can use the natural projection ability as they are not weighed down by hindering beliefs about what is possible or not. This belief is rooted in the idea that what prevents a lot of projection-related events to occur or be remembered in most people is the state of their belief system.

There's nothing harmful about astral projection - it is an ability that comes naturally with the fact that you are more than a physical being. I believe that the development of the astral body can actually help the emotional development of a person. Dreams and their symbology aim at teaching us about our emotions. I read (and believe) that every dream of such a nature happens in the astral body, so everybody who can even remember dreams is working naturally with the astral body anyway. See for example "Otherwhere" by Kurt Leland how this relates to the wider astral.

Oliver

[sdbl731]

I agree with what Oliver said. I think that, by the time you reach your teenage years, you already have some form of belief system or other, whether created of your own volition or stuffed down your throat (religious dogma or otherwise). I personally agree with the idea that, depending on what it is, your belief system can "weigh you down" in terms of astral projection / OBE. I certainly feel that this is the case for me, but the problem is I'm not sure what my belief system is anymore because I've changed my mind about the world several times - I've gone from being religious in my early years to becoming scientific and nihilistic to believing in all this OBE stuff . That's all good and fine, but I'm not sure to what extent my subconscious has "gotten the memo" - I suspect I have fragments of my different stages of belief floating around in there like driftwood. In any case, I know my belief system needs work.

Andy

[CFTraveler]

That's true for all of us, no matter what we think we believe.

[Jaco]

but the problem is I'm not sure what my belief system is anymore because I've changed my mind about the world several times - I've gone from being religious in my early years to becoming scientific and nihilistic to believing in all this OBE stuff . That's all good and fine, but I'm not sure to what extent my subconscious has "gotten the memo" - I suspect I have fragments of my different stages of belief floating around in there like driftwood. In any case, I know my belief system needs work.

Andy

Maybe it will be easier for you if you switch from "I need a right/good belief system" to "I don't really need a belief system".
You don't have to believe in anything. You don't have to believe in something just because you feel you need to have something to believe in.
Experience, observe, draw careful conclusions. Always accept that you might be wrong or biased.
Listen to experiences, observations and conclusions of other people. Always accept that they might be wrong or biased.
There is no need to build an artificial "I believe" bubble in a place where truthful "I don't really know" is sufficient.
Big picture might not be even possible to see.

[sdbl731]

Jaco, I totally see where you're coming from (and what you say makes a lot of sense ) - but is there even such thing as "no belief system"? You're assuming that people's belief systems are a lot easier to manipulate than they actually are. It's not as easy as saying "I don't believe in this" and then, poof, the belief is gone. From what I've heard and seen, you need to use affirmations or examine / rearrange your belief system in trance, or something along those lines, in order to actually change your belief system. I think it was Palehorse who was talking about his methods for destroying one's belief system - he said something like "imagine that your belief is a building, and then blow it up with TNT", while warning to use this method judiciously.

Trust me, I *want* to destroy my belief system and start clean, but I know it takes time and effort to do so (and lately, between being sick, busy with college applications, and busy with school, I just haven't had the time or motivation to work on this).

What you're proposing is actually where I want to end up - believing in using something like the Scientific Method to analyze and categorize life experiences, and deferring judgment on something until I get the chance to experience it. But I figure it's a long road to that destination...

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I guess it's not a destination, but just another starting point.

Andy

[Jaco]

I never said it was easy or quick
Somewhere along the way I stopped being afraid of "not believing in the "right" things".

Maybe you should determine what are you afraid of. What fears are associated with your beliefs. Observe your emotions. Go deep.
When something restrains us it means we are afraid of something.

Good luck

[sdbl731]

Somewhere along the way I stopped being afraid of "not believing in the "right" things".

I'm not trying to believe in the "right" things - just the things that won't interfere with further spiritual development. Who knows, though - subconsciously there may be a whole different story I'm not aware of.

Maybe you should determine what are you afraid of. What fears are associated with your beliefs. Observe your emotions. Go deep.
When something restrains us it means we are afraid of something.

Good luck

Thanks - that is definitely sound advice that I intend to follow (when I get around to it, of course ).

Andy

[Korpo]

Trust me, I *want* to destroy my belief system and start clean

I have been wondering about what effects the connotations of words they use to describe their intentions. Is it really wise to use words as "destroy", do you think? I mean, this is referring to parts of you. Your belief system might do a job of protecting you right now - keeping in check things with your reality filter that might be too much. I think we can remove pieces one at a time and have wonderful experiences, and grow, and do it again, but "destroy"? Sounds like a guy with an axe.

Oliver

[Hastor]

a summary, for your convenience, is that a belief system can be compared to the story of the three blind men and the
elephant. one man feels the trunk and calls it a snake, while another feels the tusk and calls it a spear, while the last
feels one of the legs and calls it a tree. What it comes down to is that all men were right within their own perspectives.
If this isnt in-depth enough i have taken the time to fully explain about a line or so down. Just be careful because it is
a lot to read. If you dont feel like reading just skip to the last little bit.

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It seems to me that for many years, people have been somewhat confused about what a belief system is.
In truth, the best way to describe a belief system is as a view of reality. Unfortunatly, no matter how hard
we try, the pure and simple truth is that, as a human being, it is impossible to fully concieve the "truth"
that is reality. The coping mechanism for this is the belief system.

This nifty little invention allows billions of people to understand other's view on life and take into account each other's
point of view. The confusion comes in when people go off and start calling these "views" religon. Religon, on most occasions,
states openly a correct view and an incorrect view of reality and upholds the infallibility of said religon's view.

A belief systm in its purest form is quite malliable and shifts and changes. This allows for there to be a shifting view of reality
and a steadily correcting view of the way life is. Religon can be characterized by what IS wrong and what IS right while a belief
system only assumes and idea percieved from an individual view.

What it comes down to is that all people see through a glass darkly. This view is what becomes that individual's reality.
This equllibrium of incorrect information comes down to three truths that are possibilities but do not allow for the
existance of the other two if upheld.

1) The only truth is held by the individual. This upholds that the truth behind reality can only be achieved by one point of view, the same way
that the only real truth is the existance of one's self.

2) The only truth is held by the masses. This upholds that the truth behind reality can only be achieved by many differant points of view, the same
way that an apple can only be fully understood if looked at form all angles and precieved as 3 dimensional.

3) The only truth can be held by an individual able to understand all points of perception.

To answer the problem, it is impossible to destroy a belief system as much as it is to cease to have a perception. What
is possible is the careful shifting from one view to another. This allows for a malliable view of reality which
, under the right conditions, can adapt and move slowly towards a realization of The Truth.

I hoped this helped, if it doesn't you can ask me or ignore what ive said. It just feels better to have finally contributed to this
conversation about belief. Thank you.