Venerable Member
If you were aware while it was happening that what you were experiencing was not physical reality, then it was lucidity. Observing the exit is an excellent way to gain lucidity. That's why people try to have consciously induced OBEs or wake-induced lucid dreams (WILDs).Originally Posted by amazingjourney
Oliver
In my experience, there's a big difference between a lucid dream and an OBE. In a lucid dream, the experience is obviously happening in your head and you know it. In an OBE, the experience is obviously happening somewhere else, such as in your room. There's a clear difference.
An OBE or astral projection, such as described by Robert Bruce on this website, is as real as you sitting here reading this message, it's not a normal dream or a normal lucid dream in any sense, it is a separate phenomena.
Venerable Member
Cannot subscribe to that at all.
I mean, my dreams are so vivid I have problems discerning them from wake life. I often wake up and only after a while notice that a dream was a dream.
So, in my limited experience, OBEs, lucid dreams and dreams can be like being waking, or less clear than that. The degree of clarity varies for me for all of them.
I personally think that if you believe your dreams are "just in your head" while OBEs are "the real thing" then you are bound to have less vivid dreams just to prove your beliefs right. Beliefs shape perception. As soon as I took my dreams more seriously, I had way more vivid dreams, more lucid and near-lucid experiences. In fact, from terms of vividness they seem so vivid I often fail to question them and therefore fail to become lucid.
Oliver
I wasn't clear about these differences before. If I did, I would remember a lot more of my experiences to be OBEs. Most times, I just thought they were just dreams and never thought too much about it or put them into journal.
There are degrees of clarity to these experiences.
The radio interview of that skilled projector once had a bilocation event, where she had got up in the morning, drove to a meeting in a school, only to find she also sensed things at home. And another friend happened to visit her at the same time at her house and saw her walking around in the house, but this projector didn't open the door for her. So she got mad.
Later this projector found out that she was OBEing while going to the meeting. And she was in the meeting, but was also at home!!
The experience in our physical body in my opinion will be the most real, because of all the senses we have in our physical body. But OBE can be very real too, although without the senses of our physical body.
In some dreams, sometimes you feel like you have never seen, feel, hear with such intensity and details! And telepathy and other super power ability makes it even more whole than in our physical body, because we are operating with the alignment of our body and soul.
Venerable Member
I can give you some examples. I had a fully lucid dream once. But everything was very shady. Like looking through a black sheet of glass. But I was definitely lucid. It started out as lucid. I even surprised myself in that dream. I had varying degrees of lucidity and of clarity since.
My clarity changed when stepping through doors, for example. I had a clear dream, but stepped through a door, and suddenly everything was blurry like without wearing glasses but suddenly I was lucid. In that lucid dream I mentioned earlier I stepped through a door and lost all sense impressions, for example.
I have had several switches back and forth over the years. Sometimes I could see, sometimes see only shady, sometimes not, once I noticed I had some weird tunnel vision, once I even had 3D touch, but no sight. Not a single of these experiences was preceded by a conscious exit. All were spontaneous or from dreams. I would not discount such experiences.
Oliver
Administrator
Not so much. In Robert's words,
http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials ... art-1.html
A dream is a type of Astral Projection- so it's not fair to say they are differnt things. They are experienced differently if the exit is perceived, but clarity and lucidity are not dependent on the region (dream or OBE), they are dependent on the experiencer.
Your experience is obviously your experience, and apparently your OBEs are very clear, lifelike and lucid, but it is not the case for everyone.
https://linktr.ee/CoralieCFTraveler
Rules:http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/faq.php
"Stop acting as if life is a rehearsal" Dr. Wayne Dyer.
Yes, according to Kurt Leland's explanation in one of the threads here, the difference b/t a common dream and a lucid dream seems to be:
"In a common dream, we are at a public area, one of the areas in astral plane, to watch a movie, in which our own earth-based life creates the dream realities and we are unaware of the architecture and the staff in this public area. But in lucid dream, we become aware of being in the dream and, of the architecture and are able to interact with the staff."
He said the goal is to be able to control what happens in a lucid dream and use it to explore the astral plane. When you find yourself visit the same places in recurrent dreams and can interact with the characters there, you can almost say that you projected to this dream zone in astral plane.
So it seems that in a common dream, we are watching a movie but we are only in the public area, to watch what our subconscious play out. But in lucid dreams, we seems to project to the astral plane and are able to interact with the people there and are aware of the surrounding there.
"public area" sounds to be in the astral as well. That would mean whenever we are dreaming, common dream or lucid dream, we project to somewhere else and not in our body? That would also mean all dreams are a mystical experience, and not just a psychic experience?
Venerable Member
From reading "OtherWhere" and "The Unanswered Question" the distinction Kurt makes it not between the astral/not-astral, but between the "Dream Zone" and the wider "OtherWhere". IIRC I have read that all dreams happen in a non-physical plane, but since we manifest in the astral with our emotions and thoughts, these experiences are confined to this "Dream Zone". A closed-off area of the astral where we can "do no damage" by creating thoughtforms that would "soil" the astral and its inhabitants. Negative emotion gets contained in and plays out in the "Dream Zone".
If I understood his model correctly you need a reasonably neutral state of mind to cross over in the wider astral from the "Dream Zone", but it is all made of the same thought- and feeling-responsive stuff. That's why you can change the scenery in a really lucid experience - it is already the astral plane and its essence responds to your mind.
In "OtherWhere" he describes how he is taught to become lucid and how he is then allowed to pass beyond of the "Dream Zone". The book has some very inspiring passages that helped me have more lucidity in my dreams just by having been exposed to them.
Oliver
Wow, this sounds really interesting! I have ordered "the unswered questions" which is on the way. I should order "otherwhere" too.
New Member
Robert i bought you mastering astral projection cd companion. How come every time i listen to you # 2 cd, when i get up i can hardly stand and my blood pressure is over 200 over 140 or more. i have stoped using the cd set. what is going on.Not so much. In Robert's words,
http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials ... art-1.html
A dream is a type of Astral Projection- so it's not fair to say they are differnt things. They are experienced differently if the exit is perceived, but clarity and lucidity are not dependent on the region (dream or OBE), they are dependent on the experiencer.
Your experience is obviously your experience, and apparently your OBEs are very clear, lifelike and lucid, but it is not the case for everyone.
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