western high magick is extraordinarily complex

[alwayson4]

I dont know how many people have delved into western ceremonial/high magick, but it is extraordinarily complex.


I wonder if it is any more effective than working with spoken affirmations.

[wstein]

I don't know how many people have delved into western ceremonial/high magick, but it is extraordinarily complex.

I wonder if it is any more effective than working with spoken affirmations.

Personally, I find affirmations almost useless. I know others swear by them. What magick I've participated in, was more effective. I find energy or sound magic WAY more effective for me. Again this is not true for everybody.

Most of the 'unnecessary' complexity of Magick relates to ritual. Some people require or thrive on ritual. For them its important, even necessary.

Also be aware that use of a lot of 'power' objects is woven into magick. Use of objects complicates any system but the boost is necessary to be effective for most. Until you can source your own energy (practice lots of NEW), you may be stuck with them.

Personally, I like ultra streamlined direct methods. They can be a little abstract and require an innate sense of what needs to be done (intuition). Often they can be too unstructured for beginners. Starting with an energy system tends to lead to a less complex set of powerful skills.

[ButterflyWoman]

I'm with wstein on this one. I find high magick to be incredibly fiddly. Low magick (such as simple witchcraft) is better, but the ritual is still annoying, at least to me. I am of the studied opinion that the ritual is just a way of seriously focusing your intent and energy (and that applies to religious ritual, as well, though most practitioners of religious ritual don't fully appreciate that they're meant to be actually invoking Deity).

I use affirmations, after having heard one of Robert Bruce's podcasts on the topic, but for the most part, I haven't had much luck with them. I actually find it easier to just say what I want/expect and then expect it to happen. That works for me more often than not, provided I'm centered and not getting a lot of interference from my own thoughts, emotions, etc.

Personally, I like ultra streamlined direct methods. They can be a little abstract and require an innate sense of what needs to be done (intuition).

Yup. That's the ticket.

[alwayson4]

Affirmations work for me.

But I put a lot of effort into chanting them out loud every day. Chant each one like you would a mantra (say each one multiple times). The key part is putting that kind of effort into it.

wstein, what is energy and sound magick? I have no idea what you are talking about.

[ButterflyWoman]

I do affirmations out loud, as well. I find that I get better results from saying it and expecting it, rather than repeating affirmations. I've tried all kinds of affirmation styles, including Afformations (also recommended by Robert, and yes, I spelled that right ). It just doesn't sit well with me. I can't say "I am slim and healthy" and believe it to be true, because it isn't, and it hasn't been for a long time. Some part of my subconscious says, "Uh, yeah, right, whatever," and reinforces the existing belief.

It's a bit like hammering metal, I think. The more you work it, the harder and more resistant the metal becomes. Hammering my subsconscious mind with stuff I don't believe just makes it more difficult to work with.

I do know that some people have great results from affirmations. I just don't.

I do, however, have good results from just placing an order and damn well expecting it to be carried out. I always get what I expect, for good or ill, so I have to consider very carefully what my true expectations are.

[alwayson4]

WHILE you chant the affirmations, think about MECHANICALLY how they work (how the throat chakra projects it onto the astral plance where your Higher Self will engage with them).

If you think about what is actually happening during the chanting, you will get satisfaction from that in of itself. It has nothing to do about whether or not your subconscious is accepting the affirmations, because you are working just like you work at a job to get money. If you try to constantly battle your mind to accept the affirmations, you will always quit.

I hope this made sense.

[Ouroboros]

I agree with wstein and OlderWiser, although I am far less experienced in the actual practice of magick. Intuitively though, it is my belief that rituals are simply focusing tools for energy/intent. They are helpful to some, but not necessarily required in order to achieve the desired effect.

I have not had much lasting success with affirmations. I find myself in much the same position as OlderWiser - stating an affirmation seems to bring into sharper focus the disparity between what actually is and what I desire to be.

[Korpo]

It's a bit like hammering metal, I think. The more you work it, the harder and more resistant the metal becomes. Hammering my subsconscious mind with stuff I don't believe just makes it more difficult to work with.

Yes, that has not been working for me either. Evidence to the contrary and such.

Oliver

[alwayson4]

stating an affirmation seems to bring into sharper focus the disparity between what actually is and what I desire to be.

Don't approach affirmations from the Law of Attraction/New Age nonsense, which seems to be what you guys are doing because many of you said you are trying to get your subconscious to believe your affirmations.

Instead think of what is taught here....HIGHER SELF..throat chakra...astral plane. Remember that you are literally God. While you are chanting the affirmations you are merely proving to your Higher Self how important these things are to you. You do NOT need to believe that they are already true in your life.

These are two different paradigms.

[star]

The aspects your affirming against have enough intelligence and willpower to resist change. If you find that they forcebly fight against change, you'll want to locate the actual aspect that's angry, and speak to it directly. If you know your Franz Bardon, you can dissect the bugger and change its elementà l structure, forcing a positive change.


Otherwise, this way of dealing with it only takes but a few moments. And is 100% effective in all my cases. Even when I work on the aspects of others.