particles in spirituality

[ButterflyWoman]

Scientists aren't interested in memorizing, either. They're interested in truth.

So long as the "truth" is measurable and repeatable in a laboratory, and preferably material.

Richard Feynman pnce said, ""I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy."

He was right.

[Mystikal]

Science may not be a pursuit of all truth, but I think it is a pursuit of truth nevertheless.

My main point with that was that memorization doesn't really have much to do with science. (Unless the science in question is really cargo cult science - another interesting thing Feynman talked about. ;)

[ButterflyWoman]

Science may not be a pursuit of all truth, but I think it is a pursuit of truth nevertheless.

It's pursuit of facts that can be put together to form theories and hypotheses.

My main point with that was that memorization doesn't really have much to do with science.

A lot of things have nothing to do with science.

For what it's worth, my husband is a scientist. He's currently working with the human genome project. Before this he was working with nanotech. I'm not anti-scientist. I just really have issues with the idea that science is about truth. It's about facts more than anything else. Very useful facts sometimes, definitely. But truth and fact aren't always the same.

Mostly I was just musing, not arguing. I do apologise if it seemed that I was. I have a lot of things to say about science as a field of human endeavor, and your post afforded me the opportunity to say one of those things.

[Mystikal]

Hm. Can you give me an example of a nonfactual truth, or an untrue fact? I can't think of any, but maybe I'm using a different flavor of the words than you are.

[ButterflyWoman]

Hm. Can you give me an example of a nonfactual truth, or an untrue fact? I can't think of any, but maybe I'm using a different flavor of the words than you are.

Well, there are things that are true in your own experience, intangibles. These are your truths. They can't be measured, nor can they be proven or disproven, nor are they facts. They just are, and they exist in your own reality. Maybe in other peoples', too, or maybe not.

Some examples would be mystical experiences, ecstatic experiences, most kinds of supernatural phenomena, etc. Can't really measure them, nor reproduce them with any reliability, but that doesn't make them untrue or unreal.

Does that make sense?

[Timotheus]

[CFTraveler]

As a Puerto Rican, I can vouch for the many uses for Ductape.

Anyway, you're talking cell physiology. I was talking 'strong force', the force that keeps atom nucleuses together, happily.

[Alaskans]

Good questions. Its 3am but I will try to answer best I can.

What's the hurry? Exploring everything in this galaxy sounds like great fun to me, even if it would take 500 trillion years.

Then thats great Hell, why not explore.

You also mentioned something about the souls of mankind being saved - saved from what? Why? Do you believe there is some sort of time limit on all this?

Saved from the being Lies Theres a time limit for some, not for any of us.

Also, about something from earlier, I'm curious: why do you say that memorization isn't your forte? Have you had problems with it? Been unable to memorize something as well as others wanted you to?

Sometimes I forget I did something seconds after the fact. It happens to many of us spiritual people. I think it has to do with multiple things. Not paying attention to the physical world, being literally out of your head (dreams and astral projections can be hard to remember), being so open minded and used to disreguarding ego (wich is partly created by stimulus recorded in the brain) that other than those used for spiritual purposes much of your neural pathways are weakened or loose. All creating someone who is very wise, adaptable, openminded and creative but not very intellegent in certain ways. I was of both, intellegent and wise. I could split atoms with my mind (figuratively), it was actually even scary to me. A mind that is both wise and intellegent is many times more powerfull than one specialized in either. However, my heart suffered badly as a result. Still, Im thinking of trying something like chemistry or engineering to balance things out again.

Lastly, and most important to me: why do you say that thinking in great detail about how something works makes the knowledge useless for mystics? Is it just a matter of limited time, or is there something more? Personally, I've always found that understanding how something works helps me greatly in any application of it.

Time is a bit of an issue, we only live so long, however, your knowledge is not erased apon death, it can eventually be recieved apon your next lifetime (hopefully!).
Knowing the proper scientific terminology doesnt help at all in practical aplication unless you are a scientist. When someone does a 'supernatural' act, the proper way is exactly that, super-natural. You dont think about sending electrical signals down particular nerve pathways to the particular muscle of your arm in order to move it. You just move your arm. (Not that 'moving your arm' spiritually cant have its particularities.) The issue is that thoughts are our translation and complication of something abstract and more simple. In the translation we may create limitations to what we can do with our minds and soul. Like someone said in the telekinesis forum awhile ago. He had a TK instructor who used to be a physicist. His instructor was really good, he could spin many targets at once without even looking at them, but he was never able to move a golf ball because he couldnt get over the idea that the golf ball had too much air friction. If you can set aside your scientific side when you are being a mystic then its no problem. Coupling science and spirituality will make you understand the universe very very fast, but when it comes to actually taking action on that knowledge you may have to put aside your scientific thinking or your mystical thinking depending on how you are using your knowledge. But dont limit yourself with such a box, It's only how it seems to me.

I've become rather suspicious of people who tell me that something is too hard to understand or that I shouldn't understand it - it makes me think that they don't really want me to understand whatever it is they're telling me.

Too hard to understand Nothing is impossible to understand in some way. People always say God cannot be understood, God works in in mysterious ways, its not true. Gods actions make perfect sense, its just that they dont have a good enough grasp of Truth. Some of those people were probably challenging you to figure it out.

It is better to scatter seeds in all the fields so that the farmers learn how to sow and take pride in thier accomplishment than to spend all your time growing the vegetables yourself to place the harvest in just one field.
I try to just scatter seeds, but too often I'm handing out the whole plant Scattering seeds sounded simple enough! (I'll try not to feel guilty about this post!)

That is why things are often not explained in detail, we need the sense that it was US who discovered it in order for us to truely believe it, they are just tryng to get you to find it out yourself. On top of that some things need to be kept abstract in order to work, I stopped writing in my journal because I was turning something explained perfectly without words into something very inaccurately translated when I would write my thoughts.

I wouldn't want to work with a manager who uses a lot of buzzwords but won't explain what they mean. I'd be likely to think that she says them to create the appearance that she has a lot of knowledge, and that she doesn't really understand what it is to actually have knowledge. So why would I want to study a mystic who says a lot of mysterious things but steers people away from understanding them?

When I started my spiritual life. I decided to disreguard what everyone in the world thinks about reality and how to live. I even disreguarded what I believed. My thinking was that if I emptied my mind of all influences, including my own, then Truth itself would trickle through. It will, but it is abstract, you must use true logic to turn it into thoughts. That is the doorway to all knowledge in the universe. Imagine, everything in the universe, abstract yet right there within grasp. It is actually the same way we use our 'psychic powers'.

[star]

Too hard to understand Nothing is impossible to understand in some way. People always say God cannot be understood, God works in in mysterious ways, its not true. Gods actions make perfect sense, its just that they dont have a good enough grasp of Truth. Some of those people were probably challenging you to figure it out.

It doesn't seem to me that god is omi-potent, Even archangels are too big to fully focus all there attention on one being without it bursting into flames. I think for god it would be more difficult for him to know whats going on with one of us, as it would be for one of us to constantly pay attention to - and follow a single cell.

[star]

Too hard to understand Nothing is impossible to understand in some way. People always say God cannot be understood, God works in in mysterious ways, its not true. Gods actions make perfect sense, its just that they dont have a good enough grasp of Truth. Some of those people were probably challenging you to figure it out.

It doesn't seem to me that god is omi-potent, Even archangels are too big to fully focus all there attention on one being without it bursting into flames. I think for god it would be more difficult for him to know whats going on with one of us, as it would be for one of us to constantly pay attention to - and follow a single cell.

When I started my spiritual life. I decided to disreguard what everyone in the world thinks about reality and how to live. I even disreguarded what I believed. My thinking was that if I emptied my mind of all influences, including my own, then Truth itself would trickle through. It will, but it is abstract, you must use true logic to turn it into thoughts. That is the doorway to all knowledge in the universe. Imagine, everything in the universe, abstract yet right there within grasp. It is actually the same way we use our 'psychic powers'.

Managing oneself is the quickest way, combined with energy building techs. The ebst way to know if its working are recieivng lots of good vibes. Random laughter is a good one too.