Psychology/Dissociation and OBE's

[chato]

I have taken several psychology courses, and in each class, the professor and book always teaches that having an out of body experience, or what they call "dissociation", is something unhealthy that only happens in moments of extreme trauma.

Examples in our textbooks include stories of children being physically abused and watching the episode take place from a third point of view perspective, as though it's happening to someone else. Lessons teach that this is a coping mechanism used by the brain in times of great emotional stress, and that it is extremely unhealthy for the person involved.

Do you think psychology itself is mistaken or that maybe there is more than one type of out of body experience? Another question is if this OBE resulting from trauma is the same as a voluntary OBE, then why would a traumatic experience cause you to go out of body?

Thank you for your time.

[ButterflyWoman]

I have taken several psychology courses, and in each class, the professor and book always teaches that having an out of body experience, or what they call "dissociation", is something unhealthy that only happens in moments of extreme trauma.

Psychology isn't know for its exploration into matters of spirituality. I've studied quite a lot of it. It's a fairly blunt instrument when it comes to matters eosteric and metaphysical.

Examples in our textbooks include stories of children being physically abused and watching the episode take place from a third point of view perspective, as though it's happening to someone else. Lessons teach that this is a coping mechanism used by the brain in times of great emotional stress, and that it is extremely unhealthy for the person involved.

Having spent much of my life with a dissociation disorder as a result of childhood trauma, I can tell you that I never once "left my body" as a result of said trauma. I know some people have the feeling/experience of doing so, but it's not true that everyone does, and it's not necessary to shift one's perspective like that in order to generate a dissociation disorder.

Do you think psychology itself is mistaken or that maybe there is more than one type of out of body experience?

Personally, after many years dealing with the mental health so-called-system and various counesellors, psychiatrists, psychologists, and so on, plus quite a lot of formal and independent study of psychology, I have to say that psychology is mostly about making an educated guess as to what's happening in someone else's reality. There ARE patterns that can be recognised, certainly, but psychology is a very young field and a very limited one, as far as most psychologists practice it.

I do, however, recommend Karl Jung for a more spiritual, metaphysical take on matters.

Another question is if this OBE resulting from trauma is the same as a voluntary OBE

It's not. Point blank, they're not even remotely the same thing, and I say that from absolutely direct firsthand experience.

then why would a traumatic experience cause you to go out of body?

To get away from the experience, obviously. There's no physical escape, so the only way to "get out" is to "leave" by going inside (which is what I did) or going "outside" and taking on the role of the observer. Or some people "go numb" or they create "someone else" to take their place or some combination of those things, or something else entirely. There are MANY styles of dissociation. It's a creative process within the mind, and every mind is unique.

You can see I have quite direct experience with this particular topic. Oh, and for the record, a meditative/trance state is ALSO a form of dissociation. Just something to think about.

[CFTraveler]

Hi Chato.
First, I wanted to dispel some notions prevalent amongst nonexperiencers about the OBE and dissociation.
First of all, if I remember correctly, dissociation is a state in which an experience is allocated to another part of the mind, and the primary personality (i.e. the experiencer) is not aware of what's happening to the experiencer. When the person having the dissociative moment is reintegrated with it's fragmented parts, sometimes they get some memories back. Am I right so far?
An OBE is almost the opposite of that- conscious awareness moves away from the body, usually with the same (repetitive and repeatable) symptoms, which practicioners use to achieve the state.
In other words, a 'true' (or what we in the community consider 'successful' O.B.E. is a state in which consciousness transitions to an out of body state without a break in awareness. So if there is any dissociation, it is with bodily sensations (which with practice doesn't happen either, but that's another post). Yes, there are spontaneous experiences, in which separations occurs while unconscious, but those instances occur when a subject is sleeping, not suffering from trauma.
Another misperception is that any state which consciousness is deemed separate is considered OBE- not so, once again, within the OBE community (first hand experiencers)- For example, autoscopy, which in the medical literature is considered a type of OBE, is not considered to be one, because in those cases the experiencers 'see', from their own body perspective, a 'copy' of themselves outside of them, and usually these experiences occur while completely awake and aware.
So-
What the OBE community considers an OBE has to follow these general/rough characteristics:
A movement to a non-body state from the point of view of the experiencer's conscious awareness,
Complete lucidity- that is, there is no suspension of disbelief such as in the dreamstate,
And, it happens in the liminal state. Not awake completely, and not asleep for obvious reasons.

I'm sure that you have, but if you have any interest in pursuing this subject from a psychological perspective, I recommend you read Stephen La Berge and Charles Tart's work in these subjects, they are psychologists, and approach the subject in a very 'real world' way.

[CFTraveler]

Synchronicity is awesome.
You can talk to this dude: http://blog.brucepsychology.com/?p=3

[ButterflyWoman]

One other comment. Conscious OBE is very like a lucid dream in many respects. In fact, some people argue that they're actually the same thing, and I'm not going to get into that (because I don't believe it), but that shows how similar they are. Psychology definitely does recognise lucid dreaming (a psychology course years ago is where I first heard of it, and I wrote a special report on the topic because it intrigued me so much), and it is well known and certainly accepted that a lucid dream is in no way the same thing as a dissociative event due to trauma.

Academics are pretty well known for treating every problem like a nail, because they only have a hammer (the hammer of their own speciality). To a dentist, everything is teeth and jaw, to a psychologist, everything is whatever school of psychology they're versed in, to a mathematician, everything is maths, to an art historian, everything is art. I just take that into account when dealing with them. They mean well.