dream body?

[Sinera]

Hi,

I recently read on some forums that some OBErs met dreamers in their dreams and both remember the same as AP/dream respectively. So I suppose that the dreamer had an "Astral/Dream body" and a kind of unconscious projection, while the OBEr had a conscious projection with his Astral/RTZ body? The dreamer was NOT lucid by the way. She just remembers the dream (maybe not all of it). But "how" and "where" did they meet? The setting was the dreamers room in one situation and the hallway/kitchen in another situation. Seems to be the RTZ, but then the OBEr started to "make objects fly around" in one example.

I still don't understand. Where and how is the "normal" dream mind located? If in deep sleep, we unconsciously project (into the etheric body). But is (normal) dreaming an unconscious projection of another body, too?
We remember some fractions of dreams, so there is a certain amount of memory download, it can even be trained and enhanced as we know from LD-techniques.
If it is a projection, then do we project a dream body for the astral plane, and use a mental body for the mental plane on lucid dreams? The normal-dream state also has the REM-phases, which shows the body/brain is more active than in deep sleep. So it also could be a "local" mind? I'm confused.

What is your theory on all that?

Regards,
Volgerle

here are the posts concerned, from the astralpulse forum:

1)
A few years ago I was living in the south of England whilst my parents lived in their house in Leeds in the north. One Saturday morning I AP'd and decided to pay my parents an "astral" visit. So concentrating on their house in Leeds, I soon found myself outside in the street in front of the house. It was a bright morning. Walking up the garden path I passed through the front door and into the hallway in my parents' house, where I discovered my mother watching in utter surprise as I came in through the front door.

I calmed her down and explained that this was just a kind of "special dream" and she had nothing to worry about. We walked through the living room and into the kitchen where I sat down on a very flimsy wooden "sewing basket", knowing that I couldn't break it. My mother complained, saying I'd break the basket but I reassured her that I was "as light as a feather" and it wouldn't break.

Then I decided to show off, so I started pointing at objects, cups, jars etc, making them fly around the kitchen. My mother was pretty shocked by all of this. At this point I lost consciousness and returned to my physical body.

A little later in the morning I got up, had breakfast, went about my business and by mid-day, curiosity got the better of me so I decided to phone home, just in case anything "unusual" had happened there. My mother answered the phone, sounding agitated, and as soon as she heard my voice said "Thank God! I thought you had died!". It turns out that she had a "dream" which was identical to the OBE I had.

She remembered dreaming that she was standing in the hall when I emerged in front of her by coming in THROUGH the front door. Shocked by this and feeling certain that something was very wrong, she continued to dream the same events that I had experienced - walking through the living room into the kitchen, complaining that I would break the sewing basket and then watching as I made objects fly around the kitchen. My mother recounted the dream without prompting. I didn't guide her in any way.

My mother's dream was identical to my OBE in every respect, and it troubled her so much that she was sure some harm must have come to me and that the dream was some sort of harbinger of bad fortune. She didn't have a contact number for me so when I called she was extremely relieved!

2)
The most convining validation I have experienced yet involved my sister, when I was still living at home. I became lucid in a dream, which caused me to wake up. On waking I discovered I was paralysed and experiencing the vibrations. I rolled out, and for some reason, I decided to try and pull my sister out. I went to her room (in my experience the light was on in her room, but in reality it wasn't) and started pulling at her arm. When I finally got her out, I showed her how to float, and helped her float up to the ceiling (we had our heads sticking through into the loft). The experience wasn't much more than this. I returned to body and checked the clock.
Out of curiosity, the morning after this experience I asked my sister if she had any strange dreams. She went a bit weird and didn't want to talk about it. Later that evening, she opened up and told me she woken in the night to see a black 'smoky' figure (see through) leaning over her bed with its hand reaching out towards her, this terrified her. She doesn't recall any of what I did (pulling her out), but the times matched up.

[Robert Bruce]

G'day,

The following excerpt may help explain this.

Robert

Excerpt from Astral Dynamics 2nd Edition.

By Robert Bruce © Copyright 2010, Hampton Roads, VA.

Many varieties of OBE are possible. Real time and astral OBE can be said to involve the projection of an energy copy of the physical body and mind. The development of projector’s energy bodies and their levels of consciousness affect what types of experiences can be achieved.

A basic real time OBE can be said to be a projection of an energy copy of the flesh of the physical body and its brain. This accounts for the lack of mental processing abilities and poor memory that are commonly experienced during real time OBE. Many people comment that it is as if they have left half of their minds behind in their physical bodies.

There are more refined levels of astral projection, depending on the configuration of projector’s energy bodies and their current spiritual development. There is a gradient of potential projected doubles. Projection into the higher astral planes involves the projection of more of the mind and consciousness of projectors, and less of an energy projection of the flesh of the physical body.

There are no actual techniques for projecting into dimensions higher than the astral planes. If projectors have the necessary levels of energy body and consciousness development, this will occur naturally during OBEs. Commands given after the exit out of body can be used, however, to project into higher levels, e.g., “Take me to the higher astral planes!”

A projection into the mental planes involves the projection of an energy copy of a projector’s mind. You already do this in a sense when you dream or have lucid dreams. This is why dreams are so different from real time and astral projections. Dreams involve the mind operating in dimensions of mind—in a mental dimension.

Probably the most achievable way to gain some experience with higher dimensions is through the practice of lucid dreaming, and particularly wake induced lucid dreaming—WILD. Lucid dreaming is a step up from normal dreaming. And wake induced lucid dreaming—WILD—is a giant leap upwards. The secret to using these to experience higher levels is to make commands, e.g., “Take me to the highest level!” or “Take me to a master!” or “Take me to a teacher!”

Afterthoughts: (not part of the book)

It is possible to dream an OBE from start to finish. This includes preparation, energy work, altered state induction, and the OBE exit, experience, and reentry. This can all be perfectly recreated by the dream mind.

The human mind does not exist in any particular place in the human body. It is a field that permeates every cell. The dream mind also does not exist in any particular place.
Robert Bruce