Beyond Enlightenment. Warning...Not for Sissies.

[wstein]

I liked the analogy/example.

While the presentation was fairly clear, its not clear to me that any teaching happened. The lady who asked the question didn't seem to get any of it. For those that are not getting it, explaining does not clarify anything.

[ButterflyWoman]

While the presentation was fairly clear, its not clear to me that any teaching happened. The lady who asked the question didn't seem to get any of it. For those that are not getting it, explaining does not clarify anything.

That's the thing, isn't it? Only those who get it will get it, and those who don't or can't won't get it. To me, it seems mostly pointless to even talk about it at all, and to me it seems potentially irresponsible (for me; I'm only speaking for and of my own experience), because of the high potential for accidentally or unintentionally misleading. And, of course, there's nothing that can be done to "gain" or "accelerate" or otherwise "acquire" this kind of awakening, anyway, so, again, what's the point in talking about it at all?

Maybe I'm missing something, maybe there is some benefit to be gained by this kind of "I've been there, I am there, I'll try to describe it to you", but the more I look at it, the more it seems like a waste of time.

If you get it, you've got it, and if you don't, you won't, until you do. I can come up with all the analogies and metaphors and poetic descriptions in the world, and it won't do much.

[IA56]

That's the thing, isn't it? Only those who get it will get it, and those who don't or can't won't get it. To me, it seems mostly pointless to even talk about it at all, and to me it seems potentially irresponsible (for me; I'm only speaking for and of my own experience), because of the high potential for accidentally or unintentionally misleading. And, of course, there's nothing that can be done to "gain" or "accelerate" or otherwise "acquire" this kind of awakening, anyway, so, again, what's the point in talking about it at all?

Maybe I'm missing something, maybe there is some benefit to be gained by this kind of "I've been there, I am there, I'll try to describe it to you", but the more I look at it, the more it seems like a waste of time.

If you get it, you've got it, and if you don't, you won't, until you do. I can come up with all the analogies and metaphors and poetic descriptions in the world, and it won't do much.

Hi BW,
I do not agree with you here, if you feel it is waist of time, that is rather arrogant in my book, in that case maybe you are not that much into helping other´s after all??...In my book there is nothing such as waist of time...because it becomes to develop more sophisticated and subtle perseptions in us, to want to learn how to communicate with everyone, and to see how and from what level you are supposed to talk from...to see each and everyones level where they are...when you get this, then you will never feel it is waist of your time...and it also will help you to develop more patience and empathy.

This is my point of view ...

Love
ia

[ButterflyWoman]

Are you suggesting that speaking about it is for our own benefit rather than others? I can certainly see that might be the case.

But to me it's more arrogant to assume that what I have to say is so amazingly important that I must tell people about it. In fact, nothing that I have to offer is in any way unique, other than it comes from my unique perspective. There have been and will be mystics and awakened people throughout the course of human history, and plenty of them have talked about this in ways far more eloquent than I. There is nothing that I have to say that has not already been said and which will not be said again.

And trust me, I don't need to develop more empathy. I am excruciatingly empathic. I've had to learn how to turn that off, to shield myself, to STOP feeling everyone else's stuff. I am not strong enough to carry the emotions of everyone I encounter, and I've had to quite deliberately learn how to protect myself. My inherent empathy is the reason I have post traumatic stress disorder and panic/anxiety disorder.

[BDeye]

BW even though what you say has been said, a refresher course for those of us that haven't heard it is never a bad thing. As you say you also bring your own unique perspective to the table, I might not always agree with it, but it forces me to think about my way of seeing the world, which also isn't a bad thing. I think even though the subject matter doesn't change, how it needs to be presented to each new generation does and if people find beneficial ways of relaying that information in a generation appropriate manner it has to be good thing. Even though in the grand scheme of things it might not matter whether people see the universe in a different perspective, from a certain perspective where already there whether we know it or not. But, from a human everyday perspective it might make a change beneficial to our everyday lives.

[IA56]

Are you suggesting that speaking about it is for our own benefit rather than others? I can certainly see that might be the case.

But to me it's more arrogant to assume that what I have to say is so amazingly important that I must tell people about it. In fact, nothing that I have to offer is in any way unique, other than it comes from my unique perspective. There have been and will be mystics and awakened people throughout the course of human history, and plenty of them have talked about this in ways far more eloquent than I. There is nothing that I have to say that has not already been said and which will not be said again.

And trust me, I don't need to develop more empathy. I am excruciatingly empathic. I've had to learn how to turn that off, to shield myself, to STOP feeling everyone else's stuff. I am not strong enough to carry the emotions of everyone I encounter, and I've had to quite deliberately learn how to protect myself. My inherent empathy is the reason I have post traumatic stress disorder and panic/anxiety disorder.

LOL BW, I really did not say anything like that...My point was to be patent with those who do ask and do not get the first time you explaine that you keep going until it does be compehensive so as slow as I am will be given time to understand, don´t you think it is worth all time in the world??

I hope I am titeled to have own point of view, and if I hurt your feelings I beg you pardon, it is not my intention.

And if you again say as I feel very arrogant..that what I have to say is so amazingly important...well to have this kind of point of view...what is the use of the life in that case at all?? ...so to me your saying is full off being depressed or something likely, are you??..
If you are...I send you lots of love and I hope you will feel better soon...and I hope I am not misstaken me to be in wrong site?? If I have missunderstood all, it is my bad and I will bow out and wish you all good luck and thank you for being there for me...it has bean wonderful


Love
ia

[ButterflyWoman]

No, you didn't hurt my feelings.

I guess I just don't feel any obligation to speak. To me, it's a personal matter, and a private one. If I choose to share, then I do, but there is no obligation on me to do so. I strongly suspect that there are a lot of people in the world who are entirely lucid and awake, but they don't speak of it. At least, they don't do so in terms most people would recognise as being the topic of awakening.

And I also feel no obligation to repeat myself ad nauseum. After a while, saying the same thing over and over, even in different ways, gets pretty tiresome. Sometimes I repeat things I've said before, sometimes I just feel like the information's out there and people who are meant to find it will, so there's no need for me to rush in with yet another explanation or discussion.

Truth is, I don't feel much obligation to "help people". I am helpful in myriad ways, mundane and esoteric, but it's because I choose to do that, and to be that, not because I think I must. I also really do not believe that I'm some sort of important figure who necessarily has to teach stuff to anyone. I'm really not a teacher, I haven't got that impulse. I am a helper (by choice), and I enjoy planting seeds that may later grow into something interesting (or not; Jesus had a parable about that very thing, in fact), for the same reason that I enjoy gardening, but if I don't garden (metaphorically or otherwise), there's no loss to me or to the universe. If someone really desperately needs some information, they'll find it, with or without me there to give it to them.

But, again, I don't really know how "helpful" any of this really is. Interesting, yes, but helpful? Useful? Not so sure about that. Maybe the seeds are, but I don't know that, either. Mostly, I speak for my own sake, because, ultimately, that's the only person I can change or help or influence.

From the larger perspective of Unity, it can be said that we are ALWAYS talking to ourselves, of course, but there are plenty of people who can and do say essentially the same stuff I do, and often better. So... Meh. Some other part of myself can talk to itself if it's important enough. Or I might. Either way, it does or doesn't matter.

[IA56]

Okay BW, I respect your point of view, even if I found it abit sad thoug, but we have right to decide how we live our life´s, so it is ...thank´s

Love
ia

[ButterflyWoman]

I don't find it sad, though I guess it could be interpreted that way. I just think of it as a kind of humility. Not that I'm making any claims about how humble I am, but to me, knowing I'm just a single thread in the whole tapestry of humanity and beyond is... well, it just makes sense, and it just seems right. And, probably, I just choose not to be too invested in my own supposed greatness or the importance of anything I might have to say.

[Tutor]

I agree with BW 100%. [forgive the writer's following "dramatist...showman"]

it is arrogance, it is rambling on ad nauseum, it is strait up curvacious addiction...it is human crying out in the wilderness. i suppose, to cry out until one is cryed out, then acceptance, opening to silence...clearly heard.

it all sounds so negative, if duality is your scope of reading. yet human is human, and spiritually speaking all negatives and positives are equally redeemable. it takes selfishness to pursue the routed course taken off a turtle's back, selfishness is a god given trait. in course or of course, as the case may be, clearly looking back the As I Am may openly cry out, come as you are. for this is the only way...human. tenacity requires selfishness, ignorance requires arrogance, cowardice requires courage, success requires failure/s.

it aint about investments, it is a turn about of being vested, turn about is fair play.

we see in part|trap; thus in one's part also self-entrapped.

certainly it would seem as if one suffers from Starfish Syndrome, to pursue with redeemed words those which yet are pursued in their self-entrapping dialogues wherein they truly do not realize what is coming out of their mouths.

~

the story of starfish syndrome. a lonely man gets up early, before the sunrise, and walks an empty beach, not really noticing the beach, just meandering along, his mind splayed out in front of him.

suddenly on the distance a nother lone figure, both of them heading toward one another. the man is walking a strait steppedness, but he notices the distant figure is moving all over the beach making little headway, figuring this other must be staggeringly drunk.

the man's strait step makes quick gain of distance upon the other figure, seeing now that the other is frequently stopping and bending over, then making trips to the shoreline, doing this over and over...

the man reaches that distance wherefrom he sees what the figure is. why it is a little boy picking some"thing" up and taking it to the shoreline to throw back into the ocean. hmmmm???

making haste, the man approaches the boy and asks, what are you doing? boy says, I am picking up the beached starfish and throwing them back in. man says, "my god boy, do you know how many starfish are on this beach, it is covered with them. boy says, i have no way of knowing how many there are, im just picking them up as i see them.

boy bends over, picks up the starfish laying there between them, and walks it to the shoreline throwing it back in. boy returns and says, see?. man looks beyond the boy, where the boy having been, that the beach was cleanly cleared of starfish.

the man's mind relayed back into himself, wherein he turns from to look out upon his straited comings, to see the beach covered in starfish.

the boy moves on. Ramble On: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwrnexYa4Zs

~

ya see, it is from a supposed greatness that this man's mind splayed out before him could not see to read the beach's call. it is from the smallness of the boy's mind unsupposingly kept within that the boy could as answer see to read the beach's call.

Love is an insanity all it's own. yet, well kept, clearly sees the insanity splayed all about that is left unkept.

Love is always left up to those whom would see that love rightly comes down to them...to love.

~

so, like i said, i agree with BW 100%. yet, i agree with Love 200%. thus is "investment" to being vested. or to have said, to not be afraid of being afraid.

You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9S93bE06H0

~

an old oak tree reached it's course, of a hollowed and rotted stump, thunderously crashing to the ground. it had been great, high among the canopy whereunder life in darkness dwelt. a sapling arose from the rich rot's rootedness. the sapling, at first daunted upunder the great canopy dis-play, began to realize the advantage for growth. it did not have to twist and turn in this given dark underworld. it's growth quickly reached high within a non-competitive grasp for the light held at bay beyond the canopy's reach. bursting through to overtake the canopy with the primary twig of grasp, where two leaves oned, openly basked in a revelling present light of yesteryear's dualistic dis-play where life was thought to have been it's unrelenting accusatory derivatives.

Rebel Yell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNGPKqGBSDs

a vested sapling's wtf request to the canopy's querious grasping state of "investments"...

Who Are You?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5kmCgVhADY

silence in a piercing pitch yells,

Tim

P.S. Good to see you Wstein!