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dreamosis
9th June 2010, 05:09 PM
I was reading Living Magical Arts by R.J. Stewart again recently, the chapter on compassion.

He offers a concept that I'm still turning over: (paraphrased) With magic, whatever you undertake for yourself won't benefit you, or will benefit you less, than what you undertake for others.

I've dubbed it the "Law of Altruism."

With Reiki, I've almost always found that a session I do for someone else leaves me feeling better physically and psychologically than any amount of self-Reiki. In the past I've attributed to this to the idea that I'm less giving to myself for a variety of reasons -- I judge myself more than others, expect more of myself than others, etc.

Now I'm wondering if what I've experienced reflects a simple dynamic of spiritual energy. Outside of the context of healing it's often said that you get what you give, what you send out comes back to you. Within the context of healing, in accordance with attraction principles, maybe it is truly easier to effect self-healing by sending out rather than drawing in. (?)

A radical thought.

What I don't like about this line of thinking is that it seems to debase selfishness -- and I see plenty of examples of positive selfishness. I think...

At any rate, I've been contemplating how this principle interacts with self-healing. At the least it may show that self-healing doesn't work very well while in the perspective of, and serving the needs of, the ego. And that self-healing, to be most effective, needs to be done in a mode of giving instead of taking (just as other-healing is done).

CFTraveler
9th June 2010, 05:30 PM
There is a similar (or the same, expressed differently in metaphysical religious circles) 'law', and it's called the law of circulation- expressed simply, it states that the universe abhors a vacuum, therefore the act of giving (and here giving can mean many things, doing for others, healing, anything altruistic) will create a theoretical vacuum, which the universe will rush to fill up, 'ten times pressed over'. So it's not a reward system, it's more like a meta>physical system- and the law is not a 'thou shalt', but more of a 'this is how it works'.
There is no judgement implied, and it's perfectly fine to give to get- but the giving is what sets it in motion, and not the doing for yourself, which creates no meta-vacuum.

ButterflyWoman
9th June 2010, 06:01 PM
Might have to do also with the notion that reality is reflective, that is, what you send out, you get back in manifest form.

I'll have to meditate on this. I understand some of it in concept, but not in gnosis.

CFTraveler
9th June 2010, 06:34 PM
I'll have to meditate on this. I understand some of it in concept, but not in gnosis. Connect the concept of 'quantum foam' to it and it'll click for you.

dreamosis
9th June 2010, 08:14 PM
Something I didn't mention in my original post is that it's almost always easier to concentrate when I'm doing Reiki for someone else versus myself. And the quieter my mind is, the greater seems the flow.

Why is it easier to concentrate on someone else's behalf versus my own? Perhaps I feel a pressure to "perform" for others that I don't feel alone. Or, again perhaps, I fail to concentrate as much for myself because I perceive myself as less worthy in some way.

I like the "Law of Circulation" too. I'm having a hard time coming up with examples of it. Here's one example of the Law of Altruism:

Once, when driving with my wife, I found "self-altruism" helping me and a whole freeway of commuters. I had been driving my wife to work every morning along a stretch of freeway under construction. The freeway narrowed from two lanes to one. Every day there was jam. Despite signs warning that the road would narrow to one lane, people would drive down the right lane until they were forced to merge. At the merge point, where the right lane stopped, was a jam. One morning it struck me that if I stopped people behind me from driving down the right lane, then there would be no traffic jam. So, very illegally, I straddled both lanes as soon as I saw the signs indicating the right lane would end. The drivers behind me, in both lanes, were angry and honking their horns. A few people tried to drive around me on the right shoulder. A few sped by, flipping me off. But! There was no traffic jam! Everyone behind me was forced to shift lanes left. As the spot of the usual bottleneck appeared, I merged fully left and saved about ten minutes commute-time.

Interestingly, I was acting both selfishly and altruistic. I was selfish in that I wanted a quicker commute. I was altruistic in that I was saving time for dozens of other people. (In doing it, I also made several people angry...)

(Here's a website that deals with traffic-altruism: http://trafficwaves.org/)

Thinking about the Law of Circulation makes me think about what can be given. Believing the Law of Circulation you might be tempted to assume that if you "gave away" x amount of your personal energy, then you'd receive an equal amount or more back. But can you really "give" your personal energy -- that soul-essence that belongs only to you?

In the widest sense you can't "give" Reiki either, since it doesn't really belong to you or anyone (and, yet, belongs to us all). Of course, that's a point of view that breaks down in practice... I could refuse to pay my landlord with the claim that the space and content of my apartment was never theirs to lend me and see where that gets me.

CFTraveler
10th June 2010, 01:49 AM
Why is it easier to concentrate on someone else's behalf versus my own? Perhaps I feel a pressure to "perform" for others that I don't feel alone. Or, again perhaps, I fail to concentrate as much for myself because I perceive myself as less worthy in some way. I think it's easier to objectify others (I know this sounds terrible, but please bear with me) and then can be then recipients. It's harder with yourself because of all that complicated psychology- like what you said- only you can get deep inside every little thing that makes you feel guilty and somehow 'unworthy'- if that's your thing- it's just easier to 'see' others than to 'see' yourself- so giving to others seem more natural. Or so it's how it seems to me.


Thinking about the Law of Circulation makes me think about what can be given. Believing the Law of Circulation you might be tempted to assume that if you "gave away" x amount of your personal energy, then you'd receive an equal amount or more back. But can you really "give" your personal energy -- that soul-essence that belongs only to you? I guess that it depends on your worldview- if you think energy is energy and what makes it 'yours' is what you do with it, then it's better to channel it outwards- because the universe is making more for you constantly- so in this case the source is constantly creating through you. You are the channel to this abundance, but you are directing it outwards- opening the channel for more. Or something like that. This makes you the center of the source, or where it becomes manifest.

dreamosis
10th June 2010, 02:59 AM
Yeah, it does depend on worldview. When I wrote that I was partly thinking about the concept of "soul loss"... If it's possible for us to lose, or become detached from, a piece of our soul, then I'd suppose it's possible for us to try to give it away too (perhaps subconsciously)...

Hmmm...I can't quite articulate what I'm thinking about here.

So, the energy that so-called psychic vampires suck out of people -- is that really healthy for them? I mean, besides from the question of whether leeching off another person is ethical or not, is the actual energy that they're sucking up work well with their energy systems? Or does it only tend to prop them up artificially? Give them a buzz, like they've eaten sugar, but not really nutrify them?

Or, in the same turn, can it be potentially harmful to give someone else your energy? Not karmically harmful, but well, think of the times you've felt "smothered" by people who are trying to help you. You know what I mean? What's happening energetically there?

I'm on a tangent...

Tutor
10th June 2010, 12:18 PM
yup, the true feeling of 'fullfillment'. good stuff dreamosis.

CFTraveler
10th June 2010, 05:32 PM
I split the topic at the 'Energy Vamp' subtopic, and put it in mysticism under "Energy Feeding". (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=20654&p=131057#p131057) I may move it to the energy work forum, not sure yet.

dreamosis
10th June 2010, 09:20 PM
Keeping in line with the thread of altruism, I can see how an altruistic approach to energy-vamps could work. If what they're looking for is a taste, then you can simply secretly send them a ball of tasty joy (or stream it to them as you're interacting rather than having them siphon off you).

Beekeeper
11th June 2010, 11:51 AM
With Reiki, I've almost always found that a session I do for someone else leaves me feeling better physically and psychologically than any amount of self-Reiki. In the past I've attributed to this to the idea that I'm less giving to myself for a variety of reasons -- I judge myself more than others, expect more of myself than others, etc.


I have been similarly surprised to discover that directing the relaxation of my yoga students leaves me totally relaxed, sometimes more so than when I’m in someone else’s class.


Now I'm wondering if what I've experienced reflects a simple dynamic of spiritual energy. Outside of the context of healing it's often said that you get what you give, what you send out comes back to you.

I don’t wish to be contrary but this does not exactly gel with my experience. I realise there can be many factors at play. I believe that sometimes we must experience a lack of fulfillment with giving so that we move on to other things that are conducive to our growth or so that those who will simply take learn a degree of self-sufficiency and selflessness. You pretty much allow for this here:


What I don't like about this line of thinking is that it seems to debase selfishness -- and I see plenty of examples of positive selfishness.

I’ve heard medical intuitive, Dr Christine Page, state that breast cancer patients are typically people who nurture others but feel they are themselves neglected and taken for granted. Certainly, this scenario is prevalent enough to belie the idea that the more we give the more we get. It simply isn’t so, regardless of the attitude of the giver, I feel.


Why is it easier to concentrate on someone else's behalf versus my own? Perhaps I feel a pressure to "perform" for others that I don't feel alone. Or, again perhaps, I fail to concentrate as much for myself because I perceive myself as less worthy in some way.

Or less needy?


If what they're looking for is a taste, then you can simply secretly send them a ball of tasty joy (or stream it to them as you're interacting rather than having them siphon off you).

Why would you want to? Better they learn to source their energy in a reasonable, socially acceptable way.

Part way through the writing of this post I went to pick up my son from the cinema. On the way home I saw a car that had broken down at the traffic light and good Samaritans (who weren’t affected directly by the broken down car) jump out to push it out of the way. This is the kind of behaviour that makes all the difference, I feel. It’s just a commitment to being a decent human being, helping when you can simply because it keeps things running smoothly. Ideally, if everyone does it then there’s always a return on such giving when you find yourself in need.

CFTraveler
11th June 2010, 05:12 PM
I believe it was another medical intuitive that said something about colon cancer- that a lot of the people who get it are people who are constanly worrying about the survival of their families- People who work and work are always afraid that it's not going to be enough. I think she was correct (I want to say it was Carolyne Myss, but it was a long time ago, an audio book and my memory isn't as good as it used to be).

Which brings me to propose another way to look at the 'too much giving' thing- I think the relationship between 'giving too much' and disease is not because the principle of 'the more you give the more you get' is flawed- it's because of the nature of the conditioning of people who 'give too much'- their giving is not based on 'wanting the best' but is based on fear- fear of not being loved, or, like in the case of lower chakra disease of 'not having enough, not being enough'.
The underlying reason for some of this type of behavior is codependent- these people don't feel whole in the first place, and the energy they are putting out is fear-based- so when they radiate it out they are getting back- partly what the fruit of their labors are, (that is, prosperity or other feedback, depending if they are giving work or money) but if the basis of their giving is codependent (that is, based on their need for others' acceptance or praise) then the energy they get back is as harmful as the fear that motivates their giving- if there is fear of not being loved enough, I can see heart disease, and if it is fear of lack, I can see colon cancer. It makes sense to me, at least.

So I'd say that if you are as whole a person as you can be, and have resolved (or addressed) any or many of these circumstances, 'giving too much' is not possible, because you are channeling infinite power or resources (or whatever you call it)- you are not giving of yourself as much as channeling divine energy. Or something like that. Which goes back to 'knowing yourself' as much as possible in life.

I have some personal insight on one of these cases, so even though it's still my opinion, I think it's based on a little more than theoretical understanding of the situation.

Cheers,
CF.

dreamosis
11th June 2010, 06:00 PM
Certainly a person can give and give and still get sick, yes. Could over-giving cause a disease process in the body? I think so, yes. Everyone's different. I'm sure that some people get cancer because of accumulated stress and overextending themselves, physically and energetically. Some people get cancer because they're exposed to dangerous chemicals and elements.

Why would I want to pacify an energy-vamp by sending them a morsel of energy? ...I suppose, yes, the most evolved action would be refusing to fill their request, and become more aware of when you're filling such requests beneath the line of conscious awareness and stop that too. Sometimes, though, not to be crude, it's easier to throw an allligator a chicken to distract it from you or so you can make your escape.

I am an advocate of self-sufficiency and positive selfishness. I've noticed leaps of growth both from acting selflessly and in standing up for myself and taking what I need. Giving without taking is meaningless, or merely imbalanced. However, at this point, I'd like to take the thread in subtler direction: not all giving and taking is equally positive. Some kinds of taking are more positive than other kinds; some kinds of giving are more positive than other kinds. By "positive" I mean "contributing to the overall harmony of your body/mind/spirit."

Some taking can be ego-based and very destructive. Some taking can be soul-based are very constructive. Some giving can be ego-based and can very erosive to your well-being. Some giving can be spirit-based and profoundly, paradoxically, rewarding.

Edit: And what I'm wondering in this thread is: How can that last truth be applied in the context of self-healing?

CFTraveler
11th June 2010, 09:56 PM
In my opinion, Know Thyself leads to Heal Thyself.

ButterflyWoman
12th June 2010, 04:45 AM
In my opinion, Know Thyself leads to Heal Thyself.
Agreed.

dreamosis
13th June 2010, 02:28 AM
CFTraveler, in my last post, I said I wanted to take the thread in subtler direction, but you'd actually already done it by introducing the idea that some giving is unhealthy. I was riffing on your thoughts.

And, yeah, yeah, knowing yourself is definitely healing yourself -- or certainly can be. The only situation in which it isn't, I think, is if you fail to act on new knowledge of yourself. But, yes, yes, awareness can be healing in and of itself.