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Nikpalj
23rd March 2006, 08:39 AM
I'm becoming more astrally aware in my dreams, but very very slowly. This night I've dreamt that I was a kid for the millionth time (because of my child soul fragment) and was walking through a forrest with somebody, that somebody was actually leading me around.

Suddenly from the side of the road something that looked like a really old woman but with purple or gray skin came out and started talking to me, ignoring my partner, while we were still walking the road. She was trying to stop me/sway me with some really pathetic lies, like it (and I'm sure it was an "it", it was really poorly "disguised") expected me to actually believe it...

And I probably would have, but at that point my real, "grown up" consciousness kicked in and I immediatelly felt alarmed by this creature, gradually started feeling hostile toward it and it's false enticing smile. It hid itself behind trees as we walked by, then appeared behind the trees that were right beside us (at this time my partner ceased being important in the dream anymore, I felt like he was still right beside me, but couldn't see him/stopped paying attention). I think that he might be one of the negs who are currently posessing me.

As I gradually started "waking up" I started feeling more nad more disgusted/annoyed with how all of this hiding behind trees/popping up instantly n a different spot (while it was "obvious" to me that the creature has actually gone nowhere, was in reality only getting closer and closer to me, that this was some kind of smokescreen tactic, like the magician/illusionists do-to make you look elsewhere while they do their trick) had this so familiar (!!!) "feel" of being the most basic kind of astral illusion, like somebody would use on a small kid, I felt like "nobody screws with me like this" - my determination kicking in. Albeit centered on such a lowly, poor astral creature...

I started walking toward the creature with definite, but still undefined hostile intention in mind, and it slowly backed off, still speaking (it was saying something about are we hungry and it could help us if we were, when itself was skinny as a stick and carrying no bag or other kind of container on it).

I became aware that the creatures agenda was that by being a verbal pain in the ass (like an over enthusiastic car salesman) it would gradually maneuver itself "closer" to yourself inside of the dreamscape, while actually it was trying to get inside of my aura and feed itself. It couldn't even think of anything better to ask me than "am I hungry" (like itself constantly is)...

While I was cornering it, I saw that we were actually walking toward a kind of cliff, we were standing on a large plateau inside of the forrest, and if I continued in this direction it would eventually have to take some action or fall of it. That was probably my mind reforming the dreamscape to mirror the actual state of affairs, beyond the illusion that I was seeing.

The creature took no action, simply continued walking backwards, still babbling (it was scared-of me! and I don't know anything about the astral...).

Then I suddenly knew what I had to do. I took a deep breath, concentrating all my might and #PUSHED# at the damn thing with my arms.

At that point, something weird happened. Instead of the creature falling off the cliff like it should have, I've heard this really loud mettalic CLANG!, like somebody hit an iron pot right beside me. At the same time I've woken up, realizing that I've actually phisically pushed forward with my arms and the whole of my upper body, going with the motion I've made in my dream, while still lying on the bench in my kitchen where I spend my nights.

I got up and went to warm my hands, and while I was analyzing the dream it came to my mind how close it is to the Hansel and Gretchel kid's story. I think that Hans C. Andersen had also had a child soul fragment (possibly had spirit attachments) and that he was that particular stories "Hansel" - that much of his stories had actually been his personal astral experiences (him being the child protagonist because of his own kid soul fragment) that he simply had written down and published - his actual dreams.

Probably the Baba Yaga of the Russian/Slav folclore, and many of those "evil witch" archetypes from the kid's stories are something simmilar to this creature from my dream - actually some type of astral parasite disguising itself with this particular illusion type?

What was the loud metallic noise that I've heard, it sounded exactly like the door of the iron furnace closing itself shut after the evil witch that I've pushed into it... but what was it really, beyond the illusion?


Also, as an slightly allarming fact, I've become aware that the negs are the ones who are causing all of the sudden growth of my psychic potentials. I can feel them somehow moving the eyes of my astral body upward, making them stare into my third eye all of the time. They've probably been at this for months now. When I violently get them down again (I have to strain against something to do this, "ripp" them off into normal position) they just go up again a few seconds later, seemingly "of their own will" - so it has to be a neg.

Those are definitely my astral eyes, or some other part of my astral body, I feel all of this movement while I'm physically looking straight forward or downward-I've tested this. So while, looking in a completely different direction with my actual eyes, I "sense" my eyes, the exact same kind of feeling like if I was moving the actual physical ones, moving upward and then stay pointing upward, looking to the center of my forehead.

I'm getting increasingly astrally aware every night. This night, instead of falling asleep like I should have, I've found myself suddenly having a slightly distorted, kind of watery normal vision. I also felt weird, blurry, like I was on drugs or underwater. Right beside my face on the bench I've seen this small creature which consisted of a number of entwined brown strands (slowly moving around). I reached out to tuch it and tried to push it off the edge of the bench with the tip of my finger at which point I suddenly woke up. I was really shocked to find out that I was actually sleeping throughout all this.

I think that this migh be my "which" from the forrest dream (that I've dreamed immediately after this experience), but if this is so, "where" do our "dreams" actually play themselves out? I know that I float out of the phys. in my astral body - then why the need to push the creature off of anything, if I'm actually in the air? What is the nature of those obvious illusions (all of the trees behind which the creature was hiding away), "where" do I actually "see" them? This all is really challenging to understand...

And who was Gretchel, the other guy who was leading me around. One of the negs or just a construct of my subconscious mind?

emcmattm
23rd March 2006, 03:53 PM
Hi,

I've read through your odd dream and have to say I'm a bit confused as to why you chosse to title your post with evil wiccan lady. The dream has nothing to do with wicca at all. Just seems to me to that its trying to tell you that someone may be trying to take advantage of you. The only reason I really posted a reply at all is that I found it to be a bit offensive that you would choose to link wicca with something negitave like your dream that you had. Not a big deal, but I wouldn't want people thinking that witches and wiccans are evil and try to steal peoples energy.

Fornow
24th March 2006, 05:42 PM
I second your opinion emcmattm. Couldn't have said it better myself.

edi
13th November 2006, 10:56 AM
I have the same problem in my dreams.

For example, last night in my dream I was an invisible gnome, which is same as being a child really - you are small and nobody pays attention to you.

When I'm like a small child in my dreams, I feel helpless, unprotected, scared and powerless, and unable to face anyone or anything. There's usually someone after me trying to catch me and all I can do is run and find a place to hide. People who are chasing me are always three times bigger then me and very serious.

I know this is my soul fragment, otherwise as an adult person in my dreams I would be able able to fight back or confront the attacker (would I?).
But when I'm a kid I just don't know and I'm not able to understand there's an adult me somewhere that I need to integrate myself with. All I can feel is a sensation there must be someone who should rescue me because i'm week and small, but he never comes and I'm on my own.

CFTraveler
13th November 2006, 01:58 PM
Have you tried visualizing yourself as a child, approaching that child, hugging her and telling her that she is loved and protected? She has to know that there is a grown-up version of her that will protect her from anything that scares her. And you have to be that grown up version.
It sounds difficult, and may be painful, but in the end it can be done.

13th November 2006, 01:59 PM
emcmattm and Fornow...now you wouldn't both be the same individual, would you? Just curious.

Magickal practices are different in various parts of the world...Nikpalj is from Croatia which has a long history of people who are magick adept...both service to Creator and Service to Self. It would be like me saying all Catholics are nice (I am Catholic). The religon I belong to has done positive things (saving Jews from the gas chamber) and negative things (the Crusades). I'm not about to rule out all negativity just because I don't partake in it.

There are people out there that practice the loving side of the arts, and then there are others that do the opposite. Any group claiming to be totally guiltless is in denial.

edi
13th November 2006, 06:21 PM
I just read Pilar's article about soul retreival today >>>

http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=4277

and it worked sort of like a trigger for me.

I talked to my child-self and told her I'm sorry I left her 'there' all alone for such a long time, but at that point I just started crying. I know that is normal, but it is also overwhelming.
I usually cry when there's something wrong, and in this retrograde situation I was crying over something that went wrong 20 years ago because back then I could not understand what is happening.
That's very unusual.

I liked Pilar's article because she says it takes some time, months, maybe even years for the fragmented self to integrate with the rest of the personality.
This makes much more sense to me because I think reliving traumatic events from the past is very much real just as going through any contemporary trouble would be.

elendal
14th November 2006, 07:40 AM
This is for Nikpalj and others coming from this area.

Odlican forum za prostore bivse yu : http://www.galaksija.info/forum/index.php

Nikpalj
14th November 2006, 08:28 AM
Yeah, that's a great all around mysticism/paranormal forum...

Thanks for the link, El - people really seem to like LotR over at Galaksija forums... :)

And DK - have you also noticed the date when those two Wiccan-minded posters had registered AD?

But... they're right. That was a truly insensible and just plain dumb way to name this thread, and I've never apologised. So - I'm sorry, at the time I simply wasn't thinking about how many people's feelings I could be hurting by choosing such a name. I almost always have to type stuff up real quick cause I use the comps in the library and net caffes... hopefully that'll finally change in a few days when I get net access at home. =)

14th November 2006, 03:18 PM
Yes I did...that's why I brought my original point up.

shadow.pulsar
20th November 2006, 07:22 PM
emcmattm and Fornow...now you wouldn't both be the same individual, would you? Just curious.

No there not the same... I am emcmattm. I rarely use that account now (read never) and opt for my current account. I don't know who fornow was/is. Probably just someone who shared my viewpoint. I wasn't looking to stir trouble or anything, just wanted to make a point as I myself am wiccan. Not sure why this is an issue now though. Yes, people can be evil and call themselves anything, however evil and wicca just don't go together. Evil is the antithesis of wicca. an evil wiccan is more likely to be a satanist or some other religion, just using the label to there advantage. No biggie though... I was probably having a coffee-less day. :?

~Shadow~

20th November 2006, 09:01 PM
I can verify that Shadow.pulsar is being honest about the identities. Just a little techy ability the admins./mods have. :D

shadow.pulsar
21st November 2006, 02:12 PM
I can verify that Shadow.pulsar is being honest about the identities. Just a little techy ability the admins./mods have. :D

:D Thanks Painter! I've fed my caffeine addiction for the day so I'm safe today! :lol:

~Shadow~

bane
25th November 2006, 07:37 PM
well inkow alot of people that are wiccan and some of them are "evil" someone else posted that a groupe that claimes they are completely innocent are in denial,i have to sacond that notion,but i as well do not understand what the title of the topic has to do with the dream.

journyman161
26th November 2006, 08:46 AM
Most religions don't have evil in the sense it is meant here. Even Hell was a recent invention for the Christians & isn't really supported in the bible if you look at the words that got translated into Hell.

Evil tends to be a Judaic concept; buddhists never went rampaging around to wipe out evil; Hindus were content to live with others till forced to live with Muslims bent on jihad; there've been no Shinto crusades nor Sufi slaughters. The Judaics began labelling as a part of making themselves right & everyone else wrong & anyone who doesn't believe exactly as they do is labelled as evil.

This leads to the rather amusing situation where different christian groups label each other as evil because of a differetn word or a slight change in a ritual.

They seem able to ignore the facts like building most major christian churches on sites significant to the pagans, co-opting pagan holidays & borrowing traditions and stories from prior or other religions.

Evil versus good is simply another way to enforce the two-valued universe that allows easy control of the masses & enables the massive application of guilt to ensure the people will self-restrict themselves to ease the burden of imposing outside controls.

chips
26th November 2006, 06:18 PM
Hi,

I've read through your odd dream and have to say I'm a bit confused as to why you chosse to title your post with evil wiccan lady. The dream has nothing to do with wicca at all. Just seems to me to that its trying to tell you that someone may be trying to take advantage of you. The only reason I really posted a reply at all is that I found it to be a bit offensive that you would choose to link wicca with something negitave like your dream that you had. Not a big deal, but I wouldn't want people thinking that witches and wiccans are evil and try to steal peoples energy.
i agree

CFTraveler
26th November 2006, 06:57 PM
There seems to be some sort of uproar at Nik's characterization of the negative figure as 'Evil Wiccan', so I went and re-read the dream and don't understand everyone's question, because he explains it quite articulately in the recount itself.
Nik wrote:
got up and went to warm my hands, and while I was analyzing the dream it came to my mind how close it is to the Hansel and Gretchel kid's story. I think that Hans C. Andersen had also had a child soul fragment (possibly had spirit attachments) and that he was that particular stories "Hansel" - that much of his stories had actually been his personal astral experiences (him being the child protagonist because of his own kid soul fragment) that he simply had written down and published - his actual dreams.

Probably the Baba Yaga of the Russian/Slav folclore, and many of those "evil witch" archetypes from the kid's stories are something simmilar to this creature from my dream - actually some type of astral parasite disguising itself with this particular illusion type?
What was the loud metallic noise that I've heard, it sounded exactly like the door of the iron furnace closing itself shut after the evil witch that I've pushed into it... but what was it really, beyond the illusion?
For those of you don't know what Baba Yaga means, it is the archetype used in Russian/Slavic folklore, which illustrates how the image of the 'kindly old grandmother' changes to the 'evil witch' as the cultural and religious atmosphere changed after christianity replaced the earlier female-based nature-loving religions. As christianity spread accross europe, what were seen as 'holy healing women' were characterized as 'evil witches', and what used to be sage women that healed turned into a hatred of nature and women's primary role in religion and health. This was done to justify the male-dominated christian establishment taking over the important aspects of healing and religion, so the old 'healing woman' was demonized and shunned, and recast as the 'evil witch'. This can be (and is) seen as the witch in Hansel & Gretel, The 'Evil Stepmother' in Cinderella and Snow White, and other such relationships that were culturally significant way back when (women died in childbirth quite often, and men remarried all the time).
This archetype has been written about by many authors and is studied in cultural anthropology so I see no reason why Nik's reaction to the dream would be seen as scandalous or objectionable, given his cultural background.
The Baba Yaga archetype is not a commentary about Nik's view of the world, but a commentary about the way society in general viewed women healers at the beginning (and during it's evolution) of the christianization of europe.
Just because we are becoming more enlightened and accepting of religions outside the ones we grew up with doesn't mean that these archetypes don't exist and shouldn't be discussed.


http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9011585/Baba-Yaga

info links: http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/babayaga/index.html

bane
27th November 2006, 10:18 PM
i wasent talking about evil religions,i was talking about evil people that happen to be wiccan,becouse of the post very early in this thread.

CFTraveler
27th November 2006, 11:06 PM
I wans't talking about evil religions either- There were a variety of posts from people 'not understanding why' Nik characterized the woman in the dream as a Wiccan, and I was showing where in the thread he wrote he explained it. It was clear to me, and the reason for the 'outrage' IMO was not justified-he wasn't insulting Wicca, he was putting in context why he thought of her as a witch. Which is the part I highlighted in red.

shadow.pulsar
1st December 2006, 08:15 PM
I wans't talking about evil religions either- There were a variety of posts from people 'not understanding why' Nik characterized the woman in the dream as a Wiccan, and I was showing where in the thread he wrote he explained it. It was clear to me, and the reason for the 'outrage' IMO was not justified-he wasn't insulting Wicca, he was putting in context why he thought of her as a witch. Which is the part I highlighted in red.


I wouldn't exactly characterize it as outrage... more just a lack of sleep... Though if he wanted to refer to a witch like baba yaga (on an aside she is very... interesting to work with) why didn't he just use the word witch? Wicca is a relatively new thing, much newer than baba yaga. It's really splitting hairs though and doesn't really matter any more. No harm done and all.

edi
3rd December 2006, 06:07 PM
The reason why I posted my post here after it's been silent for a long time is because I recognised it is about dreams that are about child fragments.

To me Wicca is same as witch, it does not have to be either good or bad. Isn't it possible that if the title said witch someone might say 'wait a minute, I'm a witch, I don't consider myself to be a bad person'.
There are good withes, there are bad witches, we all know this. The witch from 'Wizard of Oz' was also a good witch.

Back to the topic: I dreamt I sent my dead body as a kid to my adult self (as I am right now - I was three persons in my dream, one of them dead).
It's kind of disturbing dream.
Is it possible a part of you dies when you experience a traumatic experience as a kid? In a non - retreivable way? I'm concerned about this.
Can a child fragment die?

CFTraveler
3rd December 2006, 10:14 PM
Back to the topic: I dreamt I sent my dead body as a kid to my adult self (as I am right now - I was three persons in my dream, one of them dead).
It's kind of disturbing dream.
Is it possible a part of you dies when you experience a traumatic experience as a kid? In a non - retreivable way? I'm concerned about this.
Can a child fragment die? I'm pretty sure that no fragment of yours can die, but your connection to it can be severed to it in such a difficult way as to become difficult to connect to. I have always thought that any experience that causes growth causes the 'old' persona to die and a new one to be reborn. Of course, when I say 'die' I don't mean stop existing, but the part of the being that isn't real to begin with, the 'persona', is what is replaced. So a child fragment wouldn't die, but the innocence (perhaps, this is a judgement anyway) associated with chidlikeness wouldn't be there any more. In the case of trauma, blocks would be put up to make this connection harder to find, so from the point of view of the personality or persona, it would be hard to find.
But it is my opinion that with hard work the fragment can be found and reintegrated. It's just not going to be easy because first the blocks have to be removed, the experience relived, and the pain felt, and the comfort that was lacking has to be 'applied' by yourself to yourself, and that is a tall order, one that can take time and pain, but always worth it.

edi
3rd January 2007, 04:18 PM
I've seen this film called 'Witches' with Anjelica Huston, where she as a grandwitch and her loyal witch followers are planning on turning all of the children in England into mices.
It's a funny film for children, and they are the ones who are turned into mices in the end.

Anywway, it occured to me in all of the stories bad witches are busy chasing kids and turning them into small and defenseless creatures like mice and similar (can't think of other animals right now). This means something, and I suspect it means what they are doing to kids is - fragmenting them. This is what 'being a mouse' means; people have human minds but are traped into bodies that does not suit them and makes them small and it is literally impossible for them to function as regular humans, they are in a great extent deprived of their own abilities.
That's just about how fragmented people feel about themselves.

Tara
7th January 2007, 10:39 AM
>To me Wicca is same as witch

Ack! That's like saying that everyone who believes in God is Catholic. A Wiccan and a Witch are frequently not the same thing.