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po0d
30th June 2005, 01:42 AM
What are some things you SHOULDNT do while projecting (i.e. calling for help, attracting negative entities) some help for OBE beginners?

personally, dont fear anything really and dont think too hard about the dweller affect and other manifestations (astral noises, creatures, hitchhikers etc) because sometimes all it takes is a thought and poof there they are :shock:

Xap
30th June 2005, 03:21 AM
Never accept anything at face value.

I'm not sure if that helped, but it's what I've learned in my modest experience.

Xap

Sachiel
30th June 2005, 06:33 PM
What's wrnog with calling for help exactly? and what are astral noises and hitchhikers and stuff, as you said?

The_Projector
30th June 2005, 08:07 PM
1. Don't ask to see Lucifer
2. Don't take anything for granted
3. Don't try to harm others
4. Don't get too over excited
5. Don't believe all entites are 'good' in the astral
6. Don't go on meanless journeys
7. Don't get into a fight if you can't handle it
8. Don't phase through the ground. (sometimes you'll fall for a long time)
9. Don't ask to see a spirit guide
10.Don't do anything you feel that might be wrong.


Happy travels!






-The Projector-

po0d
30th June 2005, 09:42 PM
Can you really experience lucifer and hell? Not like i would want to experience that at all, id rather not think about it, but have you? can you? or is it only a mere projection of your subconcious?

for everyone else, sometimes fear and a novice projectors weakness (for example, I NEED HELP!! AHH) can cause entities to say things along the lines of "hey, fresh meat!! lets take advantage of him!" et cetera.

Sachiel
30th June 2005, 10:47 PM
And hitchhikers? What is that? Astral noise? You didn't explain that?

Sachiel
30th June 2005, 10:48 PM
Oh, oh!

The golden rule:

DON'T CUT THE SILVER CORD!

Hegemony
30th June 2005, 11:17 PM
You can't cut the silver cord, unless you commit suicide in the physical ;)

Astral Noise is hypnagogic sound...basically, illusory (or sometimes real & caused by mischeiveous entities) sound heard near an exit.

Hitchikers are entities that attach to your projectable double (or they might be deep neg attachments from your physical body) and try to control you or absorb your energy.

Sachiel
30th June 2005, 11:35 PM
What? You can't cut the cord? ISn't that what everyone says not to do? And if that can't happen then how did a lot of people go into comatose? And what would the cord be attached to if there was no body?
And how, not to be rude would you know?

Are you sure this isn't just some kind of mechanism to make us not think about it or fear it so it is less likely to happen?

Sorry, it's just tat this cord deal is my main worry. Thanks. I need to go to orchestra now...Hope I get an answer. Bye.

The_Projector
3rd July 2005, 01:12 AM
I have never seen this silver cord in all of my obes. :lol: I think my very first one I did. :|

But I think its because I choose not to see it. I think its kinda strange that there is some magical cord that connects the spirit to the physical. I think the mind is using this as a scapgoat of some sort, to show how projectors are could never be 'lost' in the astral.



Can you really experience lucifer and hell? Not like i would want to experience that at all, id rather not think about it, but have you? can you? or is it only a mere projection of your subconcious?
There are two kinds of Lucifer and Hell in the astral. Trust me they both suck :) but one is just a projected image of your subconcious of how the bible relate to hell and the other is the true hell that I hope no projector that is not ready will see it. Same with lucifer, if you ask to see him you'll probaly see some red guy with 2 horns,wings, nice abs :lol: and wearing some weird clothing. But the real lucifer is the exact opposite dressing in fancy clothes, black hair, kinda like a pretty boy. But he has the scariest eyes cause they are just black pure darkness. His evil presence almost blinds you and makes you want to look away.. But hes a punk don't worry about that.











-The Projector-

Sachiel
3rd July 2005, 12:38 PM
*Beat the brat*
*Beat the brat*
*Beat the brat with a BASE-BALL-BAT! Oh yeah, oh yeah*

HEh, I'd get my soul eaten. Sorry just thought that was kinda funny.

Xap
3rd July 2005, 03:30 PM
Lets get this thread back on track. If you want to talk about going to see "lucifer" then start a new thread, please.

linksshadow
3rd July 2005, 09:07 PM
Xap is right things need to stay on topic. I have very little astral projection experience. But the one thing I have seen repeated in this thread and resonates with my own experiences is to not trust everything. In the astral your gut feelings and instinct will serve you well. Many people also speak of fake spirit guides and the like. One of the simplest tests to make sure they are at least somewhat good is to ask them to leave you for the time being as any good spirit will respect your wishes and back away until you are more ready. If the spirit doesn't leave you alone I'd be a little worried and seriously look into Psychic Self-Defense.

Diabolus
3rd July 2005, 09:56 PM
I don't believe you need to worry about hell because I don't think it exists, or at least not the hell that most people think of.

There are sort of hells I guess, like Robert mentions with the sublevels. I can't remember if he also mentioned the word "infra-dimensions" but I heard of that before. Basically nightmarish places.

The only reason, I think, that you'd see or be in hell would be if you subconsciously manifest it because of your belief. But, no, I don't think it's real.

And about Lucifer... I have no clue what you're going on about. Are you meaning about the christian devil? Again, no, he/that doesn't exist either.

edit: And, from being tied up with that, I forgot to say what I was going to on topic. I don't think there's anything you can really do that would cause too much harm. I think Robert says about you not being able to be harmed, so do whatever you want. The only thing I'd watch out for, like someone mentioned, would be about being deceived by spirits.

The_Projector
4th July 2005, 12:59 AM
blah blah blah...

Robert bruce says..blah blah..

don't you have any opinions for yourselfs?

Maybe that's why you haven't seen the astral fully because you are limited to what you think is limited because of some famous author.

geez, not trying to start an argument or anything but it gets annoying.

knightlight
4th July 2005, 04:38 AM
Roberts book is an amazing stepping stone and a wonderful place to start, but I agree projector.

On topic:

Dont do anything you feel may traumatize you. You may think "oh I can do such and such and not be bothered by it, I just couldnt do it in real life" but the experience can permanently scar you anyways. I believe alot of the astral is created by the subconsious and I dont think there is anything you shouldnt do, but be wary of anything that could drive you mad or damage you phsychologically.

Astralsailor
4th July 2005, 03:07 PM
WHat i find good not to do is

1. Dont belive you are only out of your body, Know that you are as in your body as out your body.

violetsky
4th July 2005, 07:06 PM
blah blah blah...

Robert bruce says..blah blah..

don't you have any opinions for yourselfs?

Maybe that's why you haven't seen the astral fully because you are limited to what you think is limited because of some famous author.

geez, not trying to start an argument or anything but it gets annoying.

If this is you trying not to be argumentative then you are potentially a risky person to have on this board. It is a requirement to be polite and considerate of others to post in these forums. Try to think of how your posts will impact others by putting yourself in their shoes.

How would you feel if others said, it sounds like you have nothing of value to say?

An apology would be the polite thing to do. Hopefully, you understand the value of being polite and considerate of others or ultimately in life, not just here, you will be increasingly unread, unheard and potentially in life feel uncared for and very misunderstood.

star
5th July 2005, 09:23 PM
Easily put, don't go looking for trouble and unless it finds you, your set, right?

Everyone says "Don't do this, or that."

Just use common sense.

Street Smarts! Aka-> Astral Smarts?

or do they not match up?

nparker
5th July 2005, 11:19 PM
1. Don't ask to see Lucifer
2. Don't take anything for granted
3. Don't try to harm others
4. Don't get too over excited
5. Don't believe all entites are 'good' in the astral
6. Don't go on meanless journeys
7. Don't get into a fight if you can't handle it
8. Don't phase through the ground. (sometimes you'll fall for a long time)
9. Don't ask to see a spirit guide
10.Don't do anything you feel that might be wrong.

Happy travels!

-The Projector-

Hi The_Projector..!

1, 2, 3 y 6 seems obvious done its ethical implications.

4 are reasonable done projection stability requirements.

5 is sequel of common sense.

7 Do you means "fighting with negs"..?

8 Have you been or at least tryed to voyage to Earth nucleus..?

9 It's all right..! Spirit Guide only can choose the right time. Remember "When student is ready, a master will appear"

Sincerely,
Natalia Parker

nparker
5th July 2005, 11:21 PM
Hi The_Projector..!

About the 10th rule (Don't do anything you feel that might be wrong) , what ethical considerations related to selfish purposes we must to take into account..?
It's realistic the existence of astral spying activities..?
Institutions like CIA, NSA, FBI, INTERPOL can use astral as media for information gathering..?
National Defense and/or citizen security and wellbeing is a good excuse for to do such activities at astral..?

Natalia Parker

The_Projector
7th July 2005, 11:07 PM
4. I said that because it is something you should NOT do in the astral which is get too excited or your experience will end. Is is a answer to their question.

5. What did I just say? Even though it is common sense it is still something that should be followed. Some projectors do not think like that. Some say the astral is all "love and caring" entites then later they will be horribly betrayed by a decieveing entity.

7. I do not need to explain. You're still blinded.

8. Yes, yes, I've done that. But it takes a while to phase thorugh the entire earth unless you teleport.


9. Psh! Nobody has spirit guides. Only Jesus he is the only teacher we have in the astral. How can you explain you giving a request in the astral to teleport somewhere (ex: Take me to___) and automatically being transported? his eyes always watching.


10. I have heard horrible stories of twisted evil projectors rapping female entites.



Are you done 'trying' to prove me wrong now?







-The Projector-

knightlight
8th July 2005, 05:26 AM
ummmm guys.... psst... I think topics such as this are open to personal interpretation and arent absolute... no reason to argue about something none of us here truely deeply understand 100%. Especially when it appears you dont share belief constructs about religion.

linksshadow
8th July 2005, 10:33 AM
The_Projector, I don't exactly see where anyone was trying to prove you wrong. It seems to me that nparker was agreeing with most of your 10 things not to do. So please calm down.

And as knightlight said, there are obviously differing religious beliefs between the two of you and this is not a place to preach, convert, or otherwise spread your religious beliefs. This is a place to openly discuss without pushing your values and morals upon someone else. We will never all agree, it just won't happen. The absolute most important thing here is to be respectful of ALL the users here and their beliefs. Being respectful doesn't necessarily mean you agree with them, it just means that you are willing to be open and accepting of the differences.

Regards,
Dan

nparker
8th July 2005, 05:18 PM
The_Projector, I don't exactly see where anyone was trying to prove you wrong. It seems to me that nparker was agreeing with most of your 10 things not to do. So please calm down.
Dan

Hi linksshadow...

You're all right... wisely I don't post further answer in order to not to feed the spark :shock: avoiding then to trigger a violent discussion. :D
Sincerely,
Natalia Parker

nparker
8th July 2005, 05:28 PM
Hi folks..!
Anyway, I will repeat previous significant post from mine:

About the 10th rule (Don't do anything you feel that might be wrong) , what ethical considerations related to selfish purposes we must to take into account..?
It's realistic the existence of astral spying activities..?
Institutions like CIA, NSA, FBI, INTERPOL can use astral as media for information gathering..?
National Defense and/or citizen security and wellbeing is a good excuse for to do such activities at astral..?

and encourage to you (linksshadow) and another moderators (Violetrose, Eol007, Crispassion, Donald, Robert, etc.) to post opinion about this critical (ethic concerns) facet of OBE. Anyother forum member is, of course, invited to post your opinion and experiences related to.

My best regards for all...
Sincerely,
Natalia Parker

The_Projector
8th July 2005, 08:32 PM
Everytime someone says "Jesus" Or "Lucifer" they automatically calssify it as 'religion'

I do not need some priest guy telling me what to do..





Using kindness to blind your peers..

EOL007
8th July 2005, 11:06 PM
Easy does it me old son ...

Lighten up..

Blessings,

S :?

knightlight
9th July 2005, 02:48 AM
jesus and lucifer stem directly from judeo-christian doctrine.

Morality and ethical practices are relative. I behave myself most of the time while OBE. I dont see any moral boundaries existing in the wider reality. If I feel compelled to do something I generally do it. I have never killed anyone or anything while OBE. I intend to keep it that way.
Other than that, I dont restrain myself, society and I do that to myself enough in day to day life.

sash
9th July 2005, 04:53 AM
Ditto knightlight. Why shall there be rules for the astral, isn't there enough for the physical already?

I'm not very experienced with projection but I can think of 2 things that are probably key to projection for most people:

1. Not to do anything that does not feel right.
2. Not to stay out of body for too long in early projections, to avoid loss of memory recall.

It might also be useful not to fall into the trap of fear, but this is up to people to decide for themselves. There is little point in writing a list of things not to do in life, so I don't think it would help much either if there was a list of things not to do in the astral.


Warm Regards,
Alexander

star
9th July 2005, 05:08 PM
About the 10th rule (Don't do anything you feel that might be wrong) , what ethical considerations related to selfish purposes we must to take into account..?
It's realistic the existence of astral spying activities..?
Institutions like CIA, NSA, FBI, INTERPOL can use astral as media for information gathering..?
National Defense and/or citizen security and wellbeing is a good excuse for to do such activities at astral..?
__________________________________________________ __________

Maybe if we were to discuss this and a CIA, NSA, FBI, or INTERPOL personal found out we were, we would be arrested ;P

but im just paranoid :? [/quote]

nparker
9th July 2005, 07:14 PM
Maybe if we were to discuss this and a CIA, NSA, FBI, or INTERPOL personal found out we were, we would be arrested ;P

but im just paranoid :? [/quote]

Hi star..!
My inquiry is from ethic viewpoint only and is related to level of success of astral spying activities in a context that excludes selfish; that's say in order to assure National Security or citizen wellbeing.
Only if we post at this forum about facts only retrievables through astral spying, of sure we would attract the attention of governmental agencies (CIA and NSA, specially).
Remember "we are not guilty unless contrary is proven" and to probe such illegal activities requires much more than rumours or "fantasies" posted at forums like this.
"Fantasies" from the viewpoint of CIA and NSA, done the fact that OBE abilities of forum members hasn't proven by those agencies. Still, we aren't part of a statistical register, our names aren't listed anywhere... I guess..!!
Only if someone of us publish some sensitive fact or information bit, we could to consider us under surveillance.
Sincerely,
Natalia Parker

Crispassion
11th July 2005, 03:38 AM
Consider this:

Astral spying implies the gathering of information or knowledge by covert means, ie gaining knowledge of a person or situation by hidden methods - without anybody knowing you are doing this. Governments do this all the time one way or another, and justify their behaviour using terms like 'National Security' and 'The War Against Terrorism'. They are able to do it because they are in a position of power and have adopted a role of 'caretaker' of the population/nation. We allow them to infringe our privacy by default. But even though their motives appear to be positive (i.e. to protect us), this could still be thought of as selfish behaviour. Selfishness, in my opinion, is the betterment of your situation at the cost of those around you. It could be argued that spying in the interests of national security and defence is the improvement of that nation's situation and gaining an advantage, at the cost of another nation's (or their own people's!) privacy. Exactly what are they trying to protect us from anyway? Death? Life? We ALL can't fail to experience these, that's for sure! And when you consider that 'nations' and 'countries' don't truly exist anywhere but in our minds as social constructs, you begin to wonder what is being defended. Clearly it is their position of power that is being defended, and the resources of that nation. (And when you consider that 'ownership' and 'property' are also unreal social constructs, you start to wonder what all the struggle is about!)

It is true that knowledge is power, and those that are in power need to control knowledge in order to wield that power...

The important point here is how you use knowledge. If you gather information because you would like to know something, examine your motivation behind that need to know. It is admirable to seek knowledge to increase your awareness of the universe, but as soon as you decide to use that information in some way that will increase your advantage in life by directly decreasing someone else's, is when the problems may begin (i.e. karma - or equal and opposite energy displacement, as I like to see it!). I don't see ethics as being things that are 'right' or 'wrong' - this is too simplistic and is a view fostered by religions attempting to guide populations. I believe all actions in this game of life are permissable and do not need to be judged, but that all actions create an effect in the sea of energy around us, and that this always has consequences for us. That's karma. It's a neutral non judgemental rebalancing of energy.

A good ninja gathers information not necessarily to gain an advantage over others, but so that they can act at their maximum efficiency in any possible situation - flowing with the energy that surrounds them...

And with that I shall retire to my bed! Goodnight... :wink:

Cris.

Aunt Clair
17th July 2005, 10:37 PM
Can you really experience lucifer and hell? Not like i would want to experience that at all, id rather not think about it, but have you? can you? or is it only a mere projection of your subconcious?
yes you can i would not recommend it . We went together in class with angels protecting us . We were not taken all thru the realm but it is sad and eye opening . When we were exploring the gates of Death we were asked by our teachers to go there with them . http://www.astralsociety.com/as/Journal ... pic=2395.0 (http://www.astralsociety.com/as/Journals/index.php?topic=2395.0)

for everyone else, sometimes fear and a novice projectors weakness (for example, I NEED HELP!! AHH) can cause entities to say things along the lines of "hey, fresh meat!! lets take advantage of him!" et cetera.
I do believe in protection before any projection and I do call on angels and guides before hand . Faith is a hugely important to safety in spiritual realms . ALways have Faith not Fear . Fear attracts negativity . Link on protection here :
http://groups.msn.com/AuntClairsParlorS ... ction.msnw (http://groups.msn.com/AuntClairsParlorSpiritualReadingRoom/protection.msnw)

Orin
30th July 2005, 08:59 AM
Whats wrong with seeing Lucifer.....after all the name does mean 'bringer of light' :twisted:

Greatoutdoors
1st August 2005, 06:14 PM
Crispassion wrote:
Selfishness, in my opinion, is the betterment of your situation at the cost of those around you.
Well put!! That is my thought not only with regard to OBE, but in anything we do. Imagine what a wonderful world we would have if everyone believed that way! I know you were speaking of governments, but if it began at the "you and me" level, the governments would take care of themselves!

As to "right" and "wrong," I agree those words have been way overused. But I absolutely believe in good and evil. IMO there are two easy ways to determine which is which:

1. To paraphrase you (imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, you know :wink: ): Evil is the betterment of your situation at the cost of those around you.

2. Evil is causing pain to others, and I draw no distinction between animal and human.

Those would be the rule at the top of my list for any astral adventures.

Nice post!

Renaissance
4th August 2005, 05:47 AM
Crisspassion, what you say about good and evil is a belief I have held for a very long time. There is no such thing as right and wrong. Everything just IS. everything and every action has its own energetic vibrational frequency, some higher some lower and thus each with it's own effects and consequences.
Good and bad, right and wrong are merely lables of the egoic mind. But then so is every word in every language. The only way the mind can understand anything is through lables and comparisons. When you say the word cat or someones name you aren't completely expressing the TRUTH so to speak of that subject but simply the label and mental construct built around that object/person/thing. The mind can never fully comprehend the absolute truth of the way things are and thus we are limited to fragile constructs.
Anyways, I'm sorry that was a bit of a ramble and my reasonings kind of ended up going in a circle (unavoidably) but the overall message was that I dig what you were saying Crisspassion.

take it easy

JonathanWolf
5th August 2005, 03:02 PM
Hello all. My being new here I will just post an opinion on a couple of what has been said.

As to the topic of astral guides. They do exist in one form or another it just depends on your belief system (ie: angels, spirit animals etc.).

As for there being a jesus or devil; for myself I have my belief of a creator "god"/Higher Power but have no belief in an ultimate evil. Is there evil out, there in a way yes in the form of the negative beings on the astral plane and those on the physical plane that do things that harm others. That to me is evil, harming others. That is why I follow the Wiccan Reed.
As to the topic of the what to not do when astral travelling. I will definitly take all to note and make sure I am careful when traveling once I can remember how(for those that don't know what I mean see my post on this forum)

Be well in all your travels in life.

Ben

Aunt Clair
5th September 2005, 02:05 PM
my irish grandfather said he did not have time or reason to believe in the devil he said he spent his time believing in God . He said the greatest evil done on earth was what we do to each other
and that hell was really life on earth

interesting viewpoint
i feel lucifer is the angel in charge of the lowest of planes
which is not a FUN place
nor a place with red guys carrying pitchforks either
Lucifer is a servant of God too in a strange way
but he is also the great deciever

i have seem demons clairvoyantly so i do believe in them

i have seen them and helped remove them from human hosts

there are negative spirit on earth yes
but there are also non human negs on earth

the owner of this site ,Robert Bruce,
wrote a comprehensiver book on negs called
Practical Psychic Self-Defense
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... 1?v=glance (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1571742212/104-1331559-9606361?v=glance)

enoch
6th September 2005, 03:28 PM
interesting topic. Thoroughly enjoyed reading this. :P

oath
6th September 2005, 03:43 PM
interesting viewpoint
i feel lucifer is the angel in charge of the lowest of planes
which is not a FUN place
nor a place with red guys carrying pitchforks either
Lucifer is a servant of God too in a strange way
but he is also the great deciever



would you say this is samael? i never hear of him but ive read about him a bit. more like the tempter. to resist temptation. like that. idk just something about it/him i like.

unison
13th September 2005, 03:21 AM
I hate the way subjects go off topic. Get freaking real people. If you have anything to say about some elses top at least say your peace and then give an on topic answer to the poster to respect his questions and thoughts. Now to get back on topic. I would have to say to have an open mind and be curious about everything and to try and learn as much as possible about anything and everything. Oh yeah and stay positive and dont get overwhelmed in wandering thoughts. Stay in control.

oath
15th September 2005, 08:54 AM
I hate the way subjects go off topic. Get freaking real people. If you have anything to say about some elses top at least say your peace and then give an on topic answer to the poster to respect his questions and thoughts. Now to get back on topic. I would have to say to have an open mind and be curious about everything and to try and learn as much as possible about anything and everything. Oh yeah and stay positive and dont get overwhelmed in wandering thoughts. Stay in control.


who the hell are you?

gorillabait
15th September 2005, 01:39 PM
Keep it calm people, there's no need to get angry. The moderators here are trying hard to keep the atmosphere of this board peaceful, so if you're feeling angry at the time of posting, stop. Calm yourself, it's ok to be angry, but try to calm yourself before posting here. If you can let the anger subside a little bit, try to formulate the core of what you wanted to say while you were angry without the anger. We very strongly don't want to let any threads in this forum turn into an angry flame-war, so try to keep angry posting toned down.

If you're angry, you're obviously angry for a reason, so allow the anger to help you eloquently form your complaint, outlining exactly what it is you object to.

Planet_Jeroen
15th September 2005, 07:53 PM
In my oppinion the question about what not to do is only relevant to someone contemplating on what it would be like to have an OOBE.

I never saw anybody walking into a gang fight intentionaly.
I never saw anybody jumping of a large building to check out what it feels like.

Bottom line is: If you use your 'common sense' then you'll have a pretty good idear about what to do, and what not to do.

There's no rule of thumb of what to avoid. Just ask yourself the question if you are experienced enough to handle any possible outcome. And take into considderation that what you ask, and what you intended to ask often leaves space for free interpretation.

'I want a guide', for instance, can also invite something rather nasty.

Crispassion's words on karma and cause and effect is another good one to keep in mind.

Oh... and it's not set in motion by 'intention', but by what actualy happned. This means that if I kill a person from whom I know he is a serial killer, I still get to answer for that.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards,

Jeroen

Deb
20th September 2005, 11:33 AM
Lucifer is the Angel of Light.
An Angel - the right hand of God; until cast down ... and the light is oh-so-sweetly tempting isn't it? But it will not feel 'right'.

Trust yourselves, know yourselves. You are safe.