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CFTraveler
14th June 2006, 01:04 PM
Thinking and acting deliberately, not from fears based on past experiences.
An unmistakable ability to enjoy each moment.
Loss of interest in judging others.
Loss of interest in judging self.
Loss of interest in conflict.
Loss of interest in interpreting the actions of others.
Overwhelming episodes of appreciation.
Feelings of connectedness with others and nature.
Frequent attacks of smiling through the heart.
Susceptibility to kindness and uncontrollable urge to reciprocate.
Tendency to allow things to unfold, rather than resisting and manipulating.

Anonymous
-This just seemed to go here-CF.

Akashic_Librarian
14th June 2006, 05:12 PM
I am near inner peace hen. I live by most of those but not all

daem0n
14th June 2006, 05:31 PM
and if we don't interpret then we know :?

terra incognita
24th June 2006, 03:31 PM
CFTraveler, your word usage is very insightful. The 'loss of interest' concept is a truly fundamental way of looking at growth. Another person might say 'just stop' or 'quit doing' or 'suppress the desire to' act on these impulses, but it seems to me the growth is never complete until, as you say, our 'interest is lost' in doing them.

What stimulates the interest in being disagreeable? A vague but apropos question.

In understanding the plethora (10 pts for word usage) of reasons why we act disagreeably is like opening the tailgate of a loaded dump truck. It'll bury us. The real interesting concept is in the self-awareness that is necessary to pull ourselves from the morass.

It is interesting how artificial mental gymnastics don't apply when real-life knee jerk scenarios crash down upon us. We just don't have time to think, "OK, step 1: remember to always love your fellow man...etc". Our immediate reaction is always based on the state of the emotions we were feeling when the situation occurred.

Perhaps, the real pragmatic approach to inner peace is to identify more with the energy body (read spirit) and less with the physical body. This is not to say that the physical body does not have its place, but is only accorded the position of 'tool'. When insults or some such occurs, if they are deemed as frivolous by the mind they roll like water off a ducks back thereby resulting in your list above.

**mind is the builder**

CFTraveler
25th June 2006, 12:33 AM
Actually, I didn't come up with that piece of wisdom- it just caught my eye (and it's anonymous.) But I sure identify with the thinking behind it.
terra incognita wrote:
What stimulates the interest in being disagreeable? A vague but apropos question. That is a big question: If you want to classify it as an interest, then I'd say the ego has an interest in being disagreeable because it gives the appearance of reality- if something disagrees, is different or clashes, then it must be real in and of itself- differentiation made real. And whatever gives the ego the illusion of reality, will be supported. So when I disagree as a knee jerk reaction (which describes me rather well, btw) it's my ego reasserting it's reality.

wstein
25th June 2006, 06:02 AM
I usually use the word 'cease' as in 'judging ceases'.

There is a difference between inner peace and inner silence/stillness. Acquiring either leads to profound changes in experience. Of course the two are often found together.

To me inner peace is a lack of internal conflict. Inner silence (stillness) is lack of automatic response (conscious response remains). Inner silence creates a detachment not necessarily found in inner peace. The detachment is not denial or absence of seeing.

As an example, one comes upon a homeless person asking for money. Someone without either would wonder why this person is homeless or perhaps just try to get past them without giving any money. If you had inner peace you would be unconflicted about choosing to give or not give money (no need to avoid). If you had inner stillness you would see a homeless person asking for money.

I hope this does not sound just like splitting hairs. I had originally though this all to be a single situation. Recently I have encountered people who are trying to come to one or the other 'state'. The effects of each are different..

terra incognita
25th June 2006, 04:21 PM
Your statement,"Inner silence is lack of automatic response." made my spine tingle!

After contemplating the difference between the two, I have to agree. At first impression, the lack of inner response seems superior of the two. But how can a student ever be superior to his teacher? Without the first, we, in all likelihood, might never achieve the second.

Some, I would guess, have been known to find inner silence in the middle of a raging battle, but that would seem a rare instance.

What an amazing concept! Inner peace is the lack of conflict... The interest that our 'ego' has in being disagreeable... They seem profoundly fastened to one another like links in a chain. Or more significantly, steps on a stairway, one being higher than the other.

Do we need to just 'burn out' of being disagreeable? Or is the method of meditation and energy work a suitable permanent antidote for this condition? Identifying more with the spiritual than the physical?

I realize these are age-old questions, Right Living etc... but they are infinitely fascinating to discuss.

********************

I've added this edit to emphasize my understanding of the inner response concept. I realize that this inner response would be applied to involuntary reactions. Our bodies would, in theory, be obedient only to the conscious mind and not subject to unwanted involuntary physical or emotional responses. We could only hope that we evolve to these heights!

daem0n
25th June 2006, 07:48 PM
wstein:
i am surprised to say at least, never anticipated such post here (for no particular reason, i am used to no one thinking and splitting hairs like me ..)

my first experience with inner stillness lead to a frustration, at the time i was consciously blocking any response, and couldn't prioritize anything, everything was equally unimportant, my body decided it dooesn't want to die out of hunger .. well, dehydration ;)

as i look at it now, i find the inner stilness NOT the way to go, the major reason being that it doesn't lead anywhere

i find "God" primum mobile, the thing that "lives" us (i mean it is God animating this form, when we get down to it)
to achieve perfect stillness means to cut off from him totally
as we know it is not dissolution, but maintaining "no life space"
to maintain blockage you need to continually invest energy into it (since you will have outside energy moving and dissolving the blockage)
so perfect stillness can be achieved only temporarily and artificially, by making big push with available energy we have, and then with time the universe will knock us back to place
definitely interesting experience ..

now inner peace/silence
first the illusion of choice
as primum mobile animates us, we go
we can create an opposing force due to our conditioning
"the choice" is not made, because the only things that determines it is the amount of energy associated with each "choice", so total predestination and predictibility, no sin, no responsibility

i notice people tend to react hysterically to predestination with that desire to control everything from fear, and run away saying, no no no, they don't notice their subconscious maintains most of their "limitations" and "blockages" in real time and can change it at will, they just have to understand what it wants to achieve by maintaining them and prove it otherwise

and peace is achieved only when we cocreate with primum mobile, since it is the "essence" of us, and we must drop everything blocking it to achieve it (show subcon it is the best for it)

25th June 2006, 08:09 PM
to achieve perfect stillness means to cut off from him totally
I don't believe it is possible to be cut off from God. That is an illusion based solely on personal perception.

I haven't seen anyone react hysterically to "predestination". Just because someone does not have the same belief system as you do doesn't mean they react hysterically when they disagree. That is also an illusion based on your own perception. I am quite comfortable with the ideas of both free will and predestination existing together. Another dichotomy of life.

Inner peace and inner silence are also a perception. It's impossible to know exactly what another person has/is experiencing. So to define and categorize how and when and if someone else has attained these states is just your opinion based solely on your perception of it.

daem0n
25th June 2006, 08:34 PM
i haven't said you can achieve perfect stillness
i've seen definite hysterical reaction
and everything is my personal perception, and i define things i percieve
when i see running away, emotional distress, and negation i call it hysterical reaction, see no point in splitting hairs whether there is one and only hysterical reaction based upon other subjective definitions
in the end i couldn't be writing this post, and even post is subjective definition ..

i can't imagine how can you still maintain it
there is only one will, filtered and tangled up, and it goes as it can
it's free, and it doesn't choose, just flows, and you can see where
it's pure logic, with the source principle being base <shakes head>
you have "the thing" springing from it, and creating myriads of interactions
even with possibility of deism, it's still the same will
how can you disagree with that ?

25th June 2006, 08:43 PM
I don't disagree with it. I didn't understand it. :shock: Probably my problem, not yours. :lol:

daem0n
25th June 2006, 08:49 PM
imagine a stream, falling down, being parted by rocks and then clashing back (but not necessarily joining, once it is parted it can stay parted)
you perception is this stream, your memory is this stream, your thoughts are this stream, and there are rocks of your body, neuron cells, other physical, astral mental bodies etc
please :lol:

terra incognita
25th June 2006, 11:19 PM
I've added an edit to the end of my last post.

daem0n
26th June 2006, 03:44 PM
about your edit:
don't you think we have conscious mind to create/establish/change/repair reactions ?

as i look at our curent conditioning it's involuntary because it had to be, to save time and life

people have so much problem changing themselves because they are doing it against their subconscious will, and the whole spiritual development is not about "doing things", but understanding and remembering things

what's the point in being loving when part of you screams about your past trauma with people, struggling with you, releasing chemicals and whatnot to prevent you from harming yourself ? you have to remember why you are acting like this, and then probably change your mindset to allow for love

and last but not least, to those that experienced "higher" consciousness, don't you think it is so knowledgeable and resourceful because it is properly conditioned, having instant answers and knowing the human body traits and the world inside out ?
i mean, the true knowledge is still memory, right ? we are tapping into something older/smarter/more perceptive etc than us, but at the core operating on the same principles

sash
26th June 2006, 04:40 PM
dae You have made a lot of 'progress' with this stream of understanding in the last few months, I really enjoyed reading all of what you wrote in this thread. :)
For me it struck a cord that what CF said has to do with loss of resistance. There is no perception present in this state (perception is resistance).
Hysteria is a good choice for a word even if at the root is fear, fear does arise out of resistance to truth.
Truth is evident in death, change, predestination .. determinism etc.
However people have been known to take it and turn it into (false) fear. Fear is an opposing dual point of Truth just as hate is an opposing dual point of Love (if that makes it more clear at all).

I've noticed the most recent few phases in my life have been encompassing this realization that to experience God requires interaction and depth of awareness rather than stillness.
Here I still seek stillness but not in the sense of emptiness, yet rather in the sense that no resistance between me and God is present (or least resistance).

daem0n
26th June 2006, 06:21 PM
lol, i was thinking the same about you, especially your longest post in free will and god (page 3) set me rolling into God (i mean i realized primum mobile thing then)

now, you misused fear concept now
resistance to truth is .. resistance to change conditioning because you thought the experience to be so important/dangerous that changing the reaction would be catastrophic
let me say it again - you have BIG experience, you establish reaction, and you resist changing it out of fear
there is no resistance to truth, there is resistance to change your way of living out of fear
this over simplification makes you unable to liberate yourself
you create and maintain ego out of above reactions, just knowing that you "aren't this or that" doesn't change the way you function
just concentrate on fear now and overcoming it, nothing else (not fearing something but fearing overall)

i have one more thing (fresh from today) to say to you
the damage you do not feel is still done
closing yourself so as not to be hurt hurts even more than being hurt (i mean you maintain the disruption without outside source), the only difference is that when you do not close yourself you notice the difference between healthy and damaged (people are good at noticing differences :?)
knowing this, you cannot keep yourself closed anymore, as your subcon priority is survival :D simple, yet offective
so you can move into HS straight without any internal obstacles (unless you do not know that it is "better"), and then with higher mind you can transcend survival (yet to come)
shielding excluded (excluding complete wall off even from higher planes)

there is no opposing anything (maybe aside yin/yang, but i never got into that) within human, there are set of commands to do things when other things occur
love - support others
hate - destroy others
fear - separate from others (ruuuuuun ;) )
attachment - eat others
compassion - feel others (nothing more, action goes from love)

edit: ekhm, i merged with HS (actually HS is your soul) a moment ago .. about resistance to change, it comes from inner void when soul is improperly incarnated, and all this attachments comes from trying to establish "self" from their physical counterpart
sadly, i understand now many people are born without souls incarnating their bodies, they are merely connected to them to survive, and recieve some guidance
it seems that there is some disturbance while being attached to the body in womb, which in most cases makes full incarnation impossible

wstein
26th June 2006, 11:07 PM
I would suggest that if you have to 'push' to achieve inner anything, then you have not gotten it. Pushing usually results only in blocking or denial. The immediate effects of pushing can very closely mimic the real thing (different long term effects). In the beginning, its not always that easy to tell if the silence is internal or if you have just blocked out all the noise.

I would speculate that perfect stillness would cause the little you (human and spiritual being) to cease and return to the All. I have not released to the point of affecting survival of my body, but I can see how that is possible.

One piece of inner silence is well known in meditation circles, it has to do with stopping the mind chatter (there is another thread on this somewhere).

I have managed to achieve a level of inner silence most of the time. Certainly the internal chatter consumes only a few minutes each day. I have also done reasonably well with inner peace. If I could just get rid of the rest that Catholic training...

For those that I have observed, external attachments (especially the ego) resist being released (destroyed from their perspective). The ego especially is good at creating false inner states.

I would agree that inner silence has a wider impact than inner peace. Its not clear to me that inner silence supercedes inner peace, but it does over shadow it. Inner conflict tends to be relatively quiet without stimulus to react to. Even with inner silence, in a circumstance that you choose to react, then the inner conflict, if present, will still show itself.

I have experienced strong reactions of others when they realize they are not in control. If you are particularly sadistic, at that moment suggest that no one can be in control in the current circumstance. Even if not true, it attacks their underlying security issue of believing it possible to be safe by being in control.

On a related note, I have had someone literally physically run in terror from a party (and leave with date) in reaction to me saying that in the future I would have to live on without my body as my body would likely only last for a couple hundred years. It would seem that challenging any deep belief that people are not ready at least look at causes these extreme reactions. Not being threatened in this way of course is one of the benefits of inner silence.

terra incognita
27th June 2006, 05:06 AM
I don't have answers to questions about inner peace. I also don't have the answers to questions about inner silence. But I do believe they exist.

I think it is important to establish the definitions of these two phrases. Inner peace could be defined as inner silence if we are not specific and careful about separating the meanings while we speak.

Inner silence, in my understanding, is in reference to the language of the physical body. When the body says, "I am hungry" the conscious mind says, "Do not feel hunger" and the body obeys. The body says, "I am tired" and the conscious mind says, "Do not sleep" and the body obeys. By this definition the inner silence concept would be in reference to the body having no power over the mind. The mind cannot be commanded by the demands of the physical body. No matter how powerful the drive is within the physical body, the mind can tell it to stop and obey.

Here is a website to a woman named Peace Pilgrim. http://www.peacepilgrim.com

In her book she describes doing these very things on her 25,000 mile walk for peace. I think that the website doesn't discuss this occurance of inner silence but her book, compiled by her friends after her death, does.

She speaks of being hungry and commanding her body to be quiet. Likewise for sleep, fear, anxiety, and other involuntary bodily and emotional functions.

There is no question that these abilities were accrued through long hard application of will power and experience. But there is no doubt in my mind that we can all attain this level of control at some point in our spiritual development.

I do believe that this is a spiritual ability and not strictly a case of physical conditioning. How we tap into that level of spiritual control over our physical body is a whole different question. One that I cannot answer, maybe somebody out there has some insights.

**Mind is the builder**[/quote]

daem0n
27th June 2006, 06:51 AM
wstein:
i have to explain the peculiar situation i was in (now my soul loves and releases everything easily)
the body was strictly following conditioned animal reactions in SOME situations
i have managed to release/channel soul in SOME aspects of my psyche

now, the conflict was over general rules, i knew how to channel soul properly (healthy state), but my body was preventing me from doing it out of fear
now, the unnatural fear comes from the inner void i wrote about (attaching to experiences in order to fill it), so i was in checkmate situation

i was constantly channeling soul, love and establishing soul level self (me as sort of equlibrium between the two) to fill the inner void, at the same time the body resisted it to preserve it's void based sense of self, and reasoned into previous conditioning (unfortunately for it, i was able to reason it into soul self, slowly hacking away at the void)
and a bunch of entities attacking me to prevent me from doing so
well, i succeded, still some leftovers

the major tool was the knowledge that everything it reasoned me to was:
- resulting from traumas, and the traumas first needed to be healed
- was not going to solve the problem and fill the void,
which it agreed to and give up more and more of it's structures
i tried earlier to rise above reason game, but it seems reason is so intimate part of the void self it is impossible to simply force it without cutting it off

peace&silence
i can agree that peace can exist with some level of friction, while silence not
still i see no point in discussing it since they are achieved in the same way
and mind chatter is a diversion tactic, so you won't threaten your void self by too much thinking, at least it is how i feel
that level of control is achieved when body stops serving itself and starts serving the soul, i feel

terra incognita
29th June 2006, 04:25 AM
When I look out into the world I see both answers and questions about free will and predestination. The natural world seems to be governed by natural forces that select a few by the survival of the fittest. Camouflaged creatures who seem to choose, consciously, the very state in which they can thrive and survive exist all around the world. But who can say the very issue of conscious choice was not just a natural state of evolution that favored only thosed that survived to breed favorable attributes into that species?

Likewise, how can we, as humans, be so sure that we have not just evolved physically based solely on biological function? The beauty of this world is that the creative force, the prime mover of this physical plane, has hidden itself within the most fundamental characteristics of our world.

We expect to see a pillar of fire or a grand cosmological occurance to lead us to our spiritual promise lands, but all we get is the grit and grime of everyday life. But the creative forces seem to exist within this grit and grime. For example, our hatreds and our upset stomachs all contain the seeds to our own liberation.

The mind is the link between the spiritual and the physical. I believe we will not always be subject to the body, like a serf to a tyrant, but be guided from the soul to the mind to the body. A natural hierarchy of truth. Like a pyramid wherein an infinitesimally minute gold capstone could be placed at the peak of the pyramid, commanding every angle and portion of that pyramid. How could we ever achieve this level of mastery? I believe that the first step is to believe in evolution and self will and predestination. What the mind can imagine it can someday achieve.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Let's take it one step at a time. There is, in a way, a combination of all three elements in our evolution. Our characteristics contain the seed to our own destiny. We have built our characteristics through repeated effort and mental focus.

Predestination should not be thought of in a "I have no control" kind of way but should be thought of in a way that includes the nature of who and what we are. What is our natural inclination? A ball is predestined to roll down hill because of the very nature of its shape. The soul of man, I believe, is predestined to control its physical body with the mind. It's just a matter of incrementally understanding the energy body (read spirit) to a greater and greater degree. That kind of predestination is of the grit and grime of this world. Not some kind of predestination/mysticism beyond the ken of common man.

Gaining control over the spiritual, or energy body, is the only way that I can think of to control our physical bodies to such an extent. Consistant energy work, intense levels of determination and experience may be the only tools that we have to attain this goal.

But what is the point of being this developed without a clearly designated set of goals? Maybe those goals should fall into a "rhythm" with the creative forces in which we live. Is it even possible to attain that leve of control without being in the same frequency as the creative forces in the first place?

**mind is the builder**