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eyeoneblack
11th February 2013, 09:02 PM
The Pope was chosen by the Will of God acting through the college of cardinals. A Pope can't resign, he is the vicar of Christ. There is but one precedent (web news) and that was 15th century and two people had claimed the throne - political intrigue.

I guess this time God just didn't get it right and the Pope has gotta go. (This is a tongue in cheek comment as we all know the Catholic Church is a political institution and the Pope is no better than a CEO.)

CFTraveler
12th February 2013, 01:23 PM
On a related note, how many popes are supposed to be left? Wasn't Mother Shipton the one who had predictions concerning the number of popes left?

Sinera
12th February 2013, 08:39 PM
On a related note, how many popes are supposed to be left? Wasn't Mother Shipton the one who had predictions concerning the number of popes left?
Would be interesting if indeed if the next one already has or then chooses the name "Peter" ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

CFTraveler
12th February 2013, 08:42 PM
allegedly attributed to Saint Malachy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Malachy), is a an apocalyptic list of 112 short phrases in Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_(language)).
Altogether, they purport to describe each of theRoman Catholic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic) popes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope) (along with a few anti-popes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-pope)), beginning with Pope Celestine II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Celestine_II) and is said to concluding with Pope Benedict XVI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI)'s successor, a pope named as "Peter the Roman", whose pontificate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontificate) is claimed to end in the destruction of the city of Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome).
That's right, it was Malachi that supposedly made the prediction. Well. we'll see, won't we?

Sinera
12th February 2013, 09:00 PM
That's right, it was Malachi that supposedly made the prediction. Well. we'll see, won't we?

We've survived Dec 2012. Hey, so what ... BRING IT ON !!!
:lol2:

CFTraveler
12th February 2013, 09:22 PM
Well, what I mean is that it'd be weird if a guy named Peter is elected. I'd be surprised, unless the person who made the prediction knew some rule that would make the next one have to be Peter. Because as you know, I'm both skeptical and fascinated by prophecy.

Beekeeper
14th February 2013, 04:21 AM
Mother Shipton never actually existed, CF. It was a hoax.

CFTraveler
14th February 2013, 05:26 PM
At the time I couldn't remember who had done the prophesying- so I threw out some names from the 'back' of my head to see which would stick.

Beekeeper
16th February 2013, 08:09 AM
Prophecy isn't an exact science it seems.
http://www.unknowncountry.com/insight/prophecy-st-malachy

Here's an interview with John Hogue. I haven't heard it yet so I can't comment.
http://www.unknowncountry.com/dreamland/latest

ButterflyWoman
16th February 2013, 08:23 AM
Prophecy is usually just vague enough that it has to be "interpreted". I put about zero stock in the predictions of any prophet, and I've read a LOT of prophecy from all different cultures, religions, etc. Prophets may or may not even understand what it is they're supposedly seeing, and describing their visions (which are almost always metaphorical, just like dreams) is ridiculously difficult. Even if you understand it, it can be next to impossible to explain it to anyone else, I've found (and note that I'm not claiming I'm a prophet, but certainly I've been known to have revelatory visions and understandings and occasionally precog dreams and the like).

So, I just figure maybe the prophet understood what he or she was reporting, but their report of it is going to wanting. And any "interpreted" prophecy is doubly suspect, IMHO.

Which kinda brings us full circle to the original topic (i.e., interpreters of prophecy and/or scripture, and their fallability).

greytraveller
18th February 2013, 03:28 AM
Greetings
The likelihood of a man named Peter being elected Pope is extremely small. However, the likelihood of a man being elected Pope and changing his name to Peter is Much higher. Nearly all newly elected Popes change their name to a religiously acceptable one (like Peter, Paul, John, Benedictine, Pius, etc.)
BTW No matter WHAT the new Pope calls himself I'm with Vogerle (Hey, so what ... BRING IT ON !!!) on this one.

Cheers
Grey

ButterflyWoman
18th February 2013, 03:38 AM
Well, whatever the new Pope calls himself, I hope we get a good, progressive one (note: I'm not Catholic, not even a little bit). I very much admired and respected John Paul II. I can't say as much for Ratzinger, i.e., Benedict. The church could do with some fresh air and new thoughts. And, because I'm not Catholic, it doesn't affect me directly, but like it or not, the Pope is still a fairly influential figure in the world. Having a Pope who was once head of the Inquisition (as Ratzinger was; he was the one who had Fr Anthony DeMello's books banned!) and was a member of Hitler Youth (as Ratzinger was, although to be fair, he had no choice in the matter, but, again, not a good look) isn't the best option for cleaning up the dusty old corners and inviting positive change.

As for the end of the world, my opinion on that is on record repeatedly. I'll believe it when it happens, and not before, but if the world were to end, well, whatever. I'm not fussed either way.

jamboh
18th February 2013, 06:54 AM
This guy is now apparently favourite to become the next pope:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Turkson

Bookies are giving him odds of 3/1 and 4/1 on.

Interestingly I did read that his nickname in his native Ghana was 'Peter the Roman' but I've no idea if that is true or not, and there are supposedly other confirming symbols on his coat-of-arms. Not that I am saying that I believe in the truth of the whole prophecy.

I assume that if he did become pope his papal name would not be peter?

CFTraveler
18th February 2013, 02:56 PM
Isn't he episcopalian?
BTW, when someone becomes pope, they give him a name (IIRC of one of the apostles). But Idk if anyone has been given the name they previously had. Maybe someone wants to do the research.

jamboh
18th February 2013, 07:50 PM
Isn't he episcopalian?
BTW, when someone becomes pope, they give him a name (IIRC of one of the apostles). But Idk if anyone has been given the name they previously had. Maybe someone wants to do the research.

No I don't believe so.. well at least the wiki page says that he is eligibile.

According to my (limited) research, the new pope actually chooses his own name based on someone that was influential/important to him, not necessarily an apostle. That's the theory, although in reality I suspect the names are chosen rather carefully. Apparently it used to be common practice for popes to keep their 'baptismal' name but for the last few hundred years have always changed it... although never to 'Peter' out of respect for the apostle Peter who was considered the first pope.

It would be interesting if this peter is chosen as the next and 112th pope.. but the chances of his official papal name being peter seems slim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_name
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Peter_II

ButterflyWoman
18th February 2013, 09:23 PM
According to my (limited) research, the new pope actually chooses his own name based on someone that was influential/important to him, not necessarily an apostle.
Yes, it's similar to the idea behind a Communion name. And there have been lots of Popes with names entirely unrelated to any Apostle (Urban, for example, and a whole string of Popes called Gregory, just off the top of my head).

There's really no reason why they MUST take a Papal name. They just do. Tradition.

Beekeeper
19th February 2013, 10:09 AM
More from John Hogue, since the topic has struck some interest: http://www.hogueprophecy.com/2013/02/pope-benedict-xvi-resigns-prophecies-of-st-malachy-papabille-and-the-last-pope-petrus-romanus-peter-of-rome/

eyeoneblack
19th February 2013, 07:50 PM
There's really no reason why they MUST take a Papal name. They just do. Tradition.
I didn't google it but I don't think there has ever been a Pope Peter. In the 19th century Catholics were forbidden to name a child Mary in respect of the the only Mary, mother of Christ. This sanction eventually ended and many Catholic women are, today, named Mary.
I'll google this now and be embarassed I'm sure.

Googled it and indeed there was a Pope Peter, but that was the first pope - Saint Peter!

Tradition has it that another Peter is not forthcoming.

It would be quite a shock if the next Pope names himself Pope Peter II. THAT would be significant!!!

Beekeeper
19th March 2013, 06:14 AM
John Hogue again. I made a selection because he's so long-winded.


DATELINE:
18 March 2013Did Nostradamus
Name Pope Francis?The pontificate of Francis is unlucky number 13 for special interests that have corrupted the mission of Yeshua for 20 centuries. They will not go down without a kicking and screaming fight. Like John XXIII before him, holy bureaucratic resistance might water down his reforms; or, like the smiling Pope John Paul I (Cardinal “White Light” Albino Luciani), Francis might suffer a mysterious and suspicious death. He could suffer assassination.He shall help the poor, downtrodden as best he can, and that reminds me of the terrible challenges awaiting him if he is indeed the Last Pope:
During the last persecution of the Holy Roman Church, there shall sit Peter of Rome, who shall feed the sheep amidst many tribulations, and when these have passed, the City of the Seven Hills shall be utterly destroyed, and the awful Judge will judge the people.The words of St. Malachy or their secret author from the end of the 16th century, reminds me of a cautionary verse of parallel and perilous apocalyptic sheen, written a half-century earlier by Nostradamus that may have also paired Pope Francis to Malachy’s Pope Peter the Last Pope (http://www.hogueprophecy.com/the-last-pope-revisited/).Century 5 Quatrain 49 reads:Nul de l’Espaigne mais de l’antique France,
Ne sera esleu pour le tremblant nacelle,
A l’ennemy sera faicte fiance,
Qui dans son regne sera peste cruelle.Not from Spain but from ancient France,
Will be elected for the trembling ship [the Bark of St. Peter],
He will make a promise to the enemy,
Who will cause great plague during his reign.Pope Francis was not from Spain but he is culturally “Spanish”. He is not from France, but he is named “French”. With this classically coy riddle from the master of cryptic twists of prescience, Nostradamus may give us the name of Pope Francis. St. Francis’ father, Pietro di Bernardone, a wealthy cloth merchant often traveled to France, was a Francophile who renamed his infant son from Giovanni to “Francesco” (i.e. “French” – Francis).Pope Francis may speak Spanish and Argentina, his homeland, may have once been a Spanish colony, but his papal name is “from ancient France(sis)” for his saintly namesake’s mother was French and from Provence. This happens to be the ancient-most corner of France colonized by the classical peoples, the Phoenicians and later the Greeks and Romans. The classical information and world play of the later two ever have a great influence on Nostradamus’ prophetic writings. If you understand like he did, his 16th-century love of the classics, you can discover in his use of Greek and Roman language, geography and classical metaphors a key unlocking many of his prophetic secrets.With this in mind, consider a new translation of 5 Q49:Not from Spain but from ancient France, (Francis)
Will be elected for the trembling ship
[the Bark of St. Peter (the Roman)]…Then a dire glimpse of what comes in the pontificate of Francis:…He will make a promise to the enemy,
Who will cause great plague during his reign.In his usual way, Nostradamus leaves the subject open, to protect the future from those who might read its signs and make things worse, for which Nostradamus would be responsible. Who the “he” is is unclear. Is it Pope Francis making a promise, a compromise with the dark forces of the mafia and devilish scandal overtaking a Church in deep apostasy? Or is this “He” Nostradamus’ third and Final Antichrist, Code Named Mabus (http://www.hogueprophecy.com/store-nostradamus-mabus/) – a false prophet? A terrorist, whose promises and actions might trigger the fiery destruction of the Vatican, and Armageddon during the reign of the last Pope Francis?Will great tribulations of famine so often forecast by Nostradamus require Pope Francis feed his starving flock of 1.3 billion believers? Then will come the destruction of Rome? The awful judge?Pray for him.Pray for “you”.
http://www.hogueprophecy.com/2013/03/pope-francis-nostradamus-st-malachy-prophecies-and-predictions-is-he-peter-of-rome-the-last-pope-of-the-apostasy-tribulation-and-the-apocalypse/

ButterflyWoman
19th March 2013, 06:30 AM
It so easy to go back over the vague and rambling writings of Nostradamus and "see" current events in them. It's always struck me as a kind of inkblot test.

Years and years ago, there was a movie about Nostradamus supposedly predicting the end of the world, with all sorts of famine and horrible stuff. I was pretty young at the time, and very easily influenced into believing that the world and the future were horrible and scary and so on. That movie terrified me, really, really, truly. I had nightmares about it, I was extremely worried for some time.

And then the supposed predicted date came and went and... life went on. Nobody was starving to death (at least, nobody I personally knew, least of all me, despite the "prediction" that North America would be in severe famine), nobody was at war (again, at least nowhere near me), it was all very much business as usual. After nothing happened, I went and studied the Nostradamus stuff for myself and found it to be, as mentioned, vague and rambling, and predictive of pretty much nothing, except with hindsight and squinting with your head turned.

I'm not familiar with John Hogue, and in his personal reality, Nostradamus may, indeed, be the world's most accurate psychic/prophet, but in my reality, Nostradamus was a bit of a kook who may or may not have seen stuff, but the way he wrote it was so incredibly surreal that it doesn't matter if he did or not. ;)

On the topic of the new Pope, though, I do like what I've heard of him so far. He seems determined to blow the dust out of the corners and shine a light in the dark places. I sincerely and genuinely hope he succeeds in this, and I bless and support his vision and his desire for positive change.

Beekeeper
19th March 2013, 10:31 AM
I like some things about him but whether he can really pull off genuine reform will be to be seen.

eyeoneblack
19th March 2013, 05:45 PM
I like some things about him but whether he can really pull off genuine reform will be to be seen.

Okay, I didn't read the whole Hogue thing. I was like, "Yeah, yeah; yeah meh". If you are really interested I will send you the two volumes of Blavatsky's "Isis Unveiled". Really, I WILL! And if you reply within the next hour you will get a bonus prize - my VERY OWN SIGNATURE!!!!

Frankly Beek, I'm a little surprised you read that Hogue stuff.

Sinera
19th March 2013, 08:44 PM
If you are really interested I will send you the two volumes of Blavatsky's "Isis Unveiled".
just as a sidenote, all of Blavatsky's books can be read online for free, e.g. here
http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/theosophypdfs/early_theosophical_publications_authors.htm
or here
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/ts/h_bio-hpb.htm

eyeoneblack
19th March 2013, 10:25 PM
just as a sidenote, all of Blavatsky's books can be read online for free, e.g. here
http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/theosophypdfs/early_theosophical_publications_authors.htm
or here
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/ts/h_bio-hpb.htm

Wouldn't you know? my most prized possessions are worthless! HaHa and Boooo...

Beekeeper
20th March 2013, 09:47 AM
Frankly Beek, I'm a little surprised you read that Hogue stuff.

It's a new thing. I pass through stages and make no apology. The purple prose is more offensive than the prophecy to my way of thinking.

Don't send me any books if you actually expect me to read them anytime in the next two years.

CFTraveler
20th March 2013, 12:01 PM
Have you ever heard of Parravicini? The articles are in spanish (http://www.forosmp.com.ar/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6242&p=114378&hilit=Papa#p114378), but it is very interesting (a slight change of theme).

Beekeeper
21st March 2013, 04:44 AM
ave you ever heard of Parravicini? The articles are in spanish (http://www.forosmp.com.ar/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6242&p=114378&hilit=Papa#p114378), but it is very interesting (a slight change of theme).

Well, I haven't, so please tell.

CFTraveler
21st March 2013, 12:34 PM
Well, I haven't, so please tell.
At your service.
Here's an english translation of his prophecies (because I was too lazy to do it myself- the letters in the drawings are too small)
http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/articles/the-amazing-prophecies-of-benjamin-parravicini


Each drawing in the first link (in spanish) I posted have the pertinent drawings regarding the Pope (because that's what the theme was about, Parravicini's predictions regarding the Pope), which is why I included this. What blew me away were the drawings, (done in the thirties on until the fifties or sixties, I think) and some pictures of the present Pope. Kinda cool, actually.


Here is a youtube video with pictures and the translations of the writings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u5XPuNGE_g

Beekeeper
22nd March 2013, 08:54 AM
Thanks, CF. Much of this is typical of prophecy in terms of somewhat obscure language. The extraterrestrial material is fairly unequivocal, though, I guess.

I get a bit suspicious of modern prophets, wondering if they are the product of internet manufacture, especially when what they predict aligns so well with staple New Age predictions. It would be easy to do, hey? Invent a fictitious prophet, create a back story, write up a few prophecies in the usual way and say the whole thing was written 50 years ago.

CFTraveler
22nd March 2013, 03:17 PM
The thing is that in Argentina he has been known for years, not just recently. But point well taken.

Beekeeper
22nd March 2013, 09:22 PM
The thing is that in Argentina he has been known for years, not just recently. But point well taken.

That's a good thing, then. I have to admit that I find the possibility of genuine prophecy quite fascinating, despite the obvious drawbacks. I was particularly interested that there were references to extra terrestrials in his predictions. Still, with all the predicted earth changes, you wonder if there'd be anyone left to interact with them if they were to announce themselves.