PDA

View Full Version : Helping someone who lost the image of God



GMAN12
6th May 2013, 07:13 PM
I wanted to ask this question, surely I would have never thought about it had I not read of the contracts in the practice of magical evocation whereas Bardon says if you do not follow your conscience while paying back the entity you have made a contract with, you will lose the image of god and become mortal as well as a demon. Would any of you think, maybe even make a group one day where we would be able to help these guys back out of the hell hole they are trapped in and get them back to God? Ascending demons? Maybe not at this time for me as I am not fully experienced in much yet, I still have much to learn, more likely for me is a couple of years when I finish IIH, when I have experience, when I finish Key to the true Kabbalah? I always thought about when Aunt Clair talks about us ascended our inner demon which we all have. If that is possible, why not also ascend a person who has become a demon, back to a person and then help them ascend higher? There by earning back their image and if Divine providence approves, back their immortal spirit?

DarkChylde
6th May 2013, 07:49 PM
i would very highly recommend not to dabble or lurk anywhere near this (i understand that your intent is well meant) but let me say this with express clarity : things/entities/demon/what have you , are placed where they placed for a reason , and they are downright notorious for employing deceit in getting to gain someones attention (attention in any way shape or form).
I can not tell you the number of times i have heard this expression "Many rue the day they touched the ouija board" (and that's not even directly touching ascent/descent dynamic directly)


Maybe not at this time for me as I am not fully experienced in much yet, I still have much to learn, more likely for me is a couple of years when I finish IIH, when I have experience,
I can't tell you the number of times I've heard this particular expression too "I will leave it alone now , but later when I'm experienced I will poke around in it for a bit" , see funny thing is one bored night this thinking converts to "Ok i think i know enough just to get a peek into this , just see what happens let's give it a go".


Aunt Clair talks about us ascended our inner demon which we all have
AC is at a level where she can get about this.
Entertaining an idea in your mind and actually getting about it are two very different things and occultists and spiritualists are prone to fall into this murky area very very often.The smart spiritualists , I've noticed over the years, are naturally very prudent people.When I say they practice an "inherent prudence" I mean they are discerning and let themselves develop in a manner that's both natural in pace in their person and works in concert with their surrounding circumstance.
I would suggest looking up retrievals and path-working , if this area is particularly attractive to you.

GMAN12
6th May 2013, 09:05 PM
Thanks DC. Can't say much about it because you answered them all.

Tutor
7th May 2013, 01:13 AM
DarkChylde,

forgive my intrusion,

absolutely awesome responce. i bow to you fellow Friend.

nun (n.) Old English nunne "nun, vestal, pagan priestess, woman devoted to religious life under vows," from Late Latin nonna "nun, tutor," originally (along with masc. nonnus) a term of address to elderly persons, perhaps from children's speech, reminiscent of nana (cf. Sanskrit nona, Persian nana "mother," Greek nanna "aunt," Serbo-Croatian nena "mother," Italian nonna, Welsh nain "grandmother;" see nanny).

Peace unto you Brother,

Tim

CFTraveler
7th May 2013, 01:47 AM
Just wanted to add a couple of things to what has been said:
First of all, Bardon always recommends that you read the books before you start the work, and never try to do anything before you're ready. I know you're working on IIH and are nowhere the part where you start evoking and invoking, and there is really not much reason to do it anyway, especially if it doesn't 'feel' right.
Aunt Clair talks about transmuting the guardian demon, but not by evocation (or God forbid invocation)- what she speaks of, is than when you are presented with a situation in which a planetary or archetypal force presents itself to test you, you meet in in such a way (by looking for the lesson and the test, IMO) that the end result is that you transcend the problem and help transmute the GD into a GA. Not the same as going around looking for trouble, when you're ready for a lesson it presents itself, something that many of us have learned.
BTW, great replies, guys.

ButterflyWoman
7th May 2013, 06:25 AM
I'm going to be a heretic and a maverick and all that (as usual).

Bardon's worldview -- with which I have no particular issue, if that's the way you want to go -- is a fairly ritualistic, orderly one. And by orderly I don't mean "neat", I mean that it follows specific orders of ritual, of progression, and it has a lot of rules and the promise/threat of dire happenings if one strays outside the order/rules. This is not inherently a bad thing, and I don't want to make it sound as if I have issues with this kind of thinking; indeed, this sort of orderly worldview suits a lot of people, and it's found in a lot of places, including many religions, social organisations, and more. Bardon described his worldview, and it's one that resonates with plenty of people. I have no doubt of that. Perhaps it resonates with you, too, and that's fine. But just keep in mind that it's only one of an infinite way of viewing reality.

However (c'mon, you knew it was coming), this kind of ritualistic, rule-bound worldview does NOT suit a good many people, myself included. While I certainly think reading Bardon is a worthwhile endeavour for the student of metaphysics, I would caution against taking it (or any writing, sacred or otherwise) as some sort of iron-clad "truth" as to "how things are". Read it, practice it, enjoy it if it works for you, nestle down into it, whatever suits you, but when and if it starts to chafe, or never really fits at all, move on to something else.

As for the question of how to help someone who, in a Bardon-inspired worldview, has had some catastrophic loss of humanity/divinity happen to them, I have no idea. I'd have to be part of that worldview to experience that or to even be able to think that way at all, and I'm just not there. Hence the source of my post: your worldview (and mine) is what you make it, and how you experience it is what you choose, consciously or unconsciously, deliberately or by default, up to you.

IA56
7th May 2013, 07:46 AM
As I also are against rituals, but those who needs them should use them. I did feel so happy when I was a child when I did find Jesus as I have said before that I by my self can have a personal contact with GOD and that me too can do what Jesus did, so powerful and so loved we are, and valuable...off course I often forget this...and fall to self pitty, ..but I am getting better to feel, not remember because my memory are bad, but I do feel more as older I get....and I do not eighder pray so much but I do feel greatful upwards so to speak, and I think it is enough, no need to be loud, a nod is enough in total love and greatfulness to the wholeness and holyness what life is.

Love
ia

ButterflyWoman
7th May 2013, 08:20 AM
I have taken great comfort and meaning from many rituals, and yes, lots of them were Christian. I have no issue with ritual, but at this point, it no longer works for me, because I see too well how and why it works (by undergoing the ritual, you allow your reality to change, that's it in a nutshell; you just give yourself permission to experience something). I wish it still worked, to be honest, because I do appreciate it, for the most part. I kind of envy people who can live by ritual, by following the steps like a recipe. I just can't, now.

And while I do miss it, I don't actually think I would want or choose to be bound by that kind of worldview again. Even if I could go back to that, in all honest, I doubt that I would. I certainly would never go back to observing and following someone else's rituals, and I can no longer accept any worldview that I have not experienced or which I am unlikely to experience (or which I have experienced and discarded).

Again, I don't want to come across as saying "don't listen to anyone else" because that's just nonsense. And I don't say "ritual is bad" because it isn't, and for an awful lot of people, it works (used to work for me, certainly). I'm just throwing out my usual seeds of thought that might grow into something more for someone, somewhere, who might come across them. :)

IA56
7th May 2013, 08:51 AM
Absolutely BW I agrea with you, all should dare to try and go to get own experience, I have also walked many path´s, to come to my conclusion and what work´s for me....just for this moment I am into mantras...it is ancient and it works for me now, and I use it...it is a very good tool and I do pray the grace what Jesus taught us....I have started to with it now what happened to my son, so I do say it few time a day.....my faith has deepened and my self trust.

When listening to others and if it goes ashtray should never blame anyone but self, and be greatful to have dared to get self knowledge....should always take resposibillity in life.

Tutor
8th May 2013, 01:41 AM
CFT,

I appreciate the thanks, but I feel as if I am out of my element herein. i tend to abstract, and have little concrete basis with which to share [and I be thankful to God for it]. I find that DarkChylde's above advice is for me as well. I am like a child with these matters, i see them with awe and reverence, yet what does a child really know, or wish to know beyond the awe of it.

I started over many years ago at the age of 40, up till then i never gave a thought to even read a book, didnt have time for it. but when all within was broken something came to rescue me. since then, it's been a hard road to put me back together and keep whatever was in process together. confidence is not one of my strong components, perhaps it never was. But i give daily thanks to God for helping me along, showing me the way so to speak, even if all i have is awe.

i write this with tears in my eyes. i've no competetive bone in my body, and won't have one ever again. how all this awe came to be so rigorously concreted is beyond my comprehension. I wonder why awe cannot be enough, cannot be.....well.

mine is not a curiousity or boredom borne intent. something came to me without me even asking, a lifeline where none was. i would have had it no other way. i would have dismissed such prior to 40. i simply grabbed hold and held on as best i could, and many things and events did there best against my best. of these i lost hold many times. but the lifeline always placed itself right back in my hands.

i honor that lifeline with every breath, whereever it leads me to. i came back to this forum to hopefully close the circle of where despair first entered, to bring the absence of despair in a return. other than that, i would share whatever of wherever my trek has been, trying to relate the awe beyond all the easily seen din.

my life is filled up, and i am cautioned by beloved ones, for my own good they say. too much heart given away they tell me. i've done that all my life, even before 40. it's the way i grew up, even as i grew up hard. i've been a man since the age of 11, even before when i was 9, called to fill in for an absent dad. my mom and i dug our first garden, not hers but ours, with pick axe and spade shovel in hard clay, and built the soil up from there. anyway, it wasnt easy but i learned to feel free with work, instead of dreading or hating it.

tenacity and intent i got, but with awe. as a youth and young man i had no time for awe, plenty of time for ache. somehow ache and awe play together now...somehow.

i say, i think i've gotten the closure i sought in returning here. will i feel it, probably not for a while. once i find myself somewhere it is hard to detach. y'all been good to me, thanks to Robert for this place.

i am a ridiculous man with ridiculous notions. but the way i see it, that beyond awe received, what on earth do i need beyond that. seems like awe is offtopic, or it has moved into concrete areas with do this dont do that signs.

i am hardly riotous or repugnant toward awe. nor am i disrespectful to those who have so apparently earned their's.

neither am i initiated in nor adept at anything. but my eyes are filled with awe. i dont say that as if anyone else does not see awe. i only speak as me for me.

peace y'all,

Tim

Fade Into You: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnqWhhOpGKU