PDA

View Full Version : Is this Website going to be banned in the UK next year?



CFTraveler
2nd August 2013, 09:15 PM
I hear the UK will be banning anything labeled 'esoteric' in the UK as part of a 'default' setting for all internet, and those who want to get it have to specifically ask, probably going on some government watchlist.
Does anyone know anything about that?

Eyeswideopen
3rd August 2013, 09:49 AM
Thanks CF,

Just found this.

http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/uk-is-about-to-filter-out-internet-adult-sites-and-esoteric-material/

Tutor
3rd August 2013, 02:20 PM
Esoteric: Ordinary General Populace and Non-public/Not meant for the ordinary general public.

1. difficult for one of ordinary knowledge or intelligence to understand <metaphysics is such an esoteric subject that most people are content to leave it to the philosophers> Synonyms abstruse, arcane, deep, esoteric, hermetic (also hermetical), recondite

Related Words: erudite, learned, scholarly; academic (also academical), pedantic; complex, complicated, hard; darkling, enigmatic (also enigmatical), inscrutable, mysterious, mystic, mystical, orphic, uncanny; impenetrable, incomprehensible, unfathomable, unintelligible; ambiguous, cryptic; unanswerable, unknowable; baffling, bewildering, confounding, confusing, disorienting, mystifying, perplexing, puzzling

~

2. not known or meant to be known by the general populace <must have had some esoteric motive for leaving his art collection to a museum halfway around the globe> Synonyms behind-the-scenes, confidential, esoteric, hushed, hush-hush, inside, intimate, nonpublic, privy, secret

Related Words: classified, restricted, top secret; silent, unadvertised, unannounced, undisclosed, unmentioned, unsaid, untold; clandestine, closet, collusive, conspiratorial, covert; furtive, hugger-mugger, occult, sneak, sneaking, sneaky, stealthy, surreptitious, undercover, underground, underhand, underhanded; personal; closeted, concealed, hidden; repressed, silenced, stifled, suppressed; backstage, offscreen, offstage

~

strait out of webster's online dictionary

AstralExplorer
4th August 2013, 11:55 AM
I checked this story out, and it appears that this website may well be blocked under the default settings, simply because it is a "web forum". Are people really going to put up with this? If there is an after life realm, George Orwell is surely out there saying "I told you so".

-asalantu-
4th August 2013, 02:08 PM
Confiemos en que la producción bibliográfica (del nivel de Robert Bruce) no sea declarada proscrita.

Cada uno, dentro de su Línea de Tiempo personal, debería meditar en forma acorde a un Reality Shift que asegure la libertad de producción y difusión de todos éstos tópicos que, de seguro, temen los gobiernos de las principales potencias.

Respetuosamente...
Ángel


Lets hope that bibliographic products such as those at the level of Robert Bruce aren't prohibited.

Each one of us, within our personal timeline, should meditate to cause a Reality Shift that preserves the freedom to produce and diffuse all these types of topics, which the main powerful countries' governments surely fear.

Respectfully,
Ángel

eyeoneblack
4th August 2013, 04:52 PM
There's a road sign ahead: Sharp turn - Fascism.

See now? I'm even paranoid to print that word! Something is going badly awry.

CFTraveler
4th August 2013, 05:40 PM
Yep, when our governments try to 'protect' us from our own ideas, you know that something is very wrong there.

dreaming90
5th August 2013, 02:05 PM
Surely the citizens of the UK will not tolerate this??

CFTraveler
5th August 2013, 03:24 PM
Surely the citizens of the UK will not tolerate this?? Gawd, I hope not.

Tutor
5th August 2013, 06:48 PM
usually any kind of prohibition causes increase in the curious dare-devil consumerism. "We will have our blue denim jeans...bygum!" history sets thwarting puritanical authority against arising self-evident truth/s, yet it would seem that authority doesnt necessarily see itself as prohibited. the use of "authority" here points at an unknown entity or body of entitys, forgetting the conspirasist theorys, just saying it's darn hard to point at [identify] whomever is in charge these days. ergo, self-evident truth. we got authority dissin on authority, it's like high school politics all over again. i feel sorry for our leaders and include such in my prayers. imho

we wouldnt have Nascar in America if not for prohibition on alcohol and subsequent whiskey/moonshine runners. odd how things like this even out given time that delivers some"thing" we could never imagine without it having historically happened just so-so.

CFTraveler
5th August 2013, 09:16 PM
we wouldnt have Nascar in America if not for prohibition on alcohol and subsequent whiskey/moonshine runners. odd how things like this even out given time that delivers some"thing" we could never imagine without it having historically happened just so-so. I did not know that. But then there's a lot I don't know.

eyeoneblack
6th August 2013, 03:22 PM
I had a little dream segment that pointed to this thread. I was at a seminar and we were all warned that we could not speak or offer our opinions unless we were certified and licensed Speakers!

That woke me up.....

Gemma
18th September 2013, 01:54 PM
Esoteric material covers an awful lot, and currently, ISPs don't seem to differentiate between stuff a terrorist would want access to, and stuff an astral projector or a magician would want access to, for example.

At present, it's not a real ban. Customers are able to call their ISPs and request the block to be lifted.

This is the case for my mobile phone provider, T-Mobile. They now block pornographic material, and if I want to view any of that using my data plan, I've got to call them and request they unblock it. Which I've no intention of doing. lol

Sky (my current ISP) isn't actively blocking any content at the moment. If I were to switch from Sky next year and I wanted to view blocked content, I'd have to contact the new ISP and request they lift the block, and it would be done.

A real ban would mean something quite different. A real ban would mean we wouldn't have the option of getting the block lifted at all.

Sinera
18th September 2013, 02:11 PM
....I'd have to contact the new ISP and request they lift the block, and it would be done.

A real ban would mean something quite different. A real ban would mean we wouldn't have the option of getting the block lifted at all.
Problem with this is that most people stick by force of habit to the 'defaults'. Secondly, it's the thing if we read 'between the lines' here: It already makes content (I mean the esoteric or 'conspiracy' stuff here) already 'ban-worthy', despite the option to lift it again. This to many people who are easily influenced by authorities and the media is then enough to manipulate their thinking.
I'd find it outrageous if a forum like this would be 'ban-worthy' and I had to apply for a lift (and thereby identifying myself as an astral projector or metaphysical practicioner of any kind.). It's the societal and political aspect which is most worrying, next to the personal inconveniences of having to 'apply' for sth which should be free for everyone in the first place.

Gemma
18th September 2013, 03:04 PM
Problem with this is that most people stick by force of habit to the 'defaults'.

That's nothing to do with government. People have the option, and if for whatever reason they don't take the option to opt out of the block, then that's their choice. If some are unaware, that's because they didn't choose to educate themselves about it.


Secondly, it's the thing if we read 'between the lines' here: It already makes content (I mean the esoteric or 'conspiracy' stuff here) already 'ban-worthy', despite the option to lift it again.

Again, reading in between the lines is nothing more than making fear-based assumptions.


This to many people who are easily influenced by authorities and the media is then enough to manipulate their thinking.

Again, that's an individual choice, often based on fear. People often take things at face value and believe everything they're told, and that's largely a choice. Yes, the media and the authorities do take advantage of that, but you know what? At the end of the day, it's the people who give them that power.


I'd find it outrageous if a forum like this would be 'ban-worthy' and I had to apply for a lift (and thereby identifying myself as an astral projector or metaphysical practicioner of any kind.).

You do not have to identify yourself in this way when asking for the block to be lifted. Heck, it's possible to do it without speaking to a single person, through online accounts. I know I can with T-Mobile. I can either call them to get the block removed, or I can change the settings via my online account. If I was paranoid about people knowing anything about me, I'd do it through my online account.


It's the societal and political aspect which is most worrying, next to the personal inconveniences of having to 'apply' for sth which should be free for everyone in the first place.

I disagree. What's worrying is people turning this into something it isn't. When it's done in the masses, it then becomes the thing we don't want it to be. The more we focus on what might be "in between the lines", the more likely the thing we're afraid of, or opposed to will start happening. What we resist, persists!

Gemma
18th September 2013, 03:07 PM
Problem with this is that most people stick by force of habit to the 'defaults'.

That's nothing to do with government. People have the option, and if for whatever reason they don't take the option to opt out of the block, then that's their choice. If some are unaware, that's because they didn't choose to educate themselves about it.


Secondly, it's the thing if we read 'between the lines' here: It already makes content (I mean the esoteric or 'conspiracy' stuff here) already 'ban-worthy', despite the option to lift it again.

Again, reading in between the lines is nothing more than making fear-based assumptions.


This to many people who are easily influenced by authorities and the media is then enough to manipulate their thinking.

Again, that's an individual choice, often based on fear. People often take things at face value and believe everything they're told, and that's largely a choice. Yes, the media and the authorities do take advantage of that, but you know what? At the end of the day, it's the people who give them that power.


I'd find it outrageous if a forum like this would be 'ban-worthy' and I had to apply for a lift (and thereby identifying myself as an astral projector or metaphysical practicioner of any kind.).

You do not have to identify yourself in this way when asking for the block to be lifted. Heck, it's possible to do it without speaking to a single person, through online accounts. I know I can with T-Mobile. I can either call them to get the block removed, or I can change the settings via my online account. If I was paranoid about people knowing anything about me, I'd do it through my online account.


It's the societal and political aspect which is most worrying, next to the personal inconveniences of having to 'apply' for sth which should be free for everyone in the first place.

I disagree. What's worrying is people turning this into something it isn't. When it's done in the masses, it then becomes the thing we don't want it to be. The more we focus on what might be "in between the lines", the more likely the thing we're afraid of, or opposed to will start happening.

What we resist, persists!

And I've just proved that to myself today, after spending years resisting. :(

Sinera
18th September 2013, 05:06 PM
You can't be serious with this, are you? ;)

A forum like this is neither porn nor gore nor racist-nazi hate-stuff where there is good reason for restrictions and control to keep especially minors save from it.

Downplaying the ban on free information like this by stating 'it's not a ban' is not helpful. It's already a ban and a stigmatisation of information like this if made "subject to activation". Isn't it a little too naive to downplay this or not see the dangers in it? It's about trends.

The internet used to be a place for free information (like this) which is what many groups or the political establishment seem to fear. Above s.o. made already the call 'fascism', it is not yet fascism but it is a little step in this direction. And this is what it's about: seeing the trends, the perils, and where it goes.

Accusations of "fearbased" assumptions are not helpful here, since we still need to act on negative trends, world-wide, especially regarding the freedom of speech and opinion. And the liberty to be informed about "things" like metaphysical practices. Being in fear or not does not matter here. You can be against these things with a very good reason and not be in fear at the same time.

We should not overlook that "harmless" measures for "precaution" (against what??) like this are only the beginnning where further steps are maybe planned. Once it is started to make things like Robert's forum stigmatised (ban-worthy) there is probably no turning back.

I believe this is not a "fear-based" assumption but rather what I would call common sense. Trying to counter these developments is rather wise, not naive, not necessarily fear-based, rather the opposite: you resist these ideas - fearlessly - and it is being aware of the necessity to prevent these "authorities" from making everything which THEY fear (!) for some reasons ban-worthy and restricted.

Gemma
19th September 2013, 12:26 AM
@CFT:

I've read up on the general topic a bit more tonight to gain more clarity. With respect to enabled esoteric and web forums filters, I guess this website will probably be blocked. But as I explain, it's not enforced, people can disable the filters if they choose. It's not like it'll be illegal to view this website, or other similar websites.

@Sinera:

:shock: From what I understood (feel free to correct me), you think forums and websites containing esoteric material relating to metaphysics and magic may at some point become completely censored in the UK? Am I correct?

Firstly, let's make something clear. I'm not suggesting that a) the UK government is/isn’t going to make accessing websites and forums related to metaphysics and magic illegal; b) I'm not suggesting they should completely ban esoteric websites for everyone and, c) I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't take action when governments and other authorities go too far.

At this moment in time, the government has not banned esoteric websites for everyone. Will they? No idea. Are they likely to? Again, no idea. I'm not going to make assumptions about it. The reality is, you don't know either (therefore you're making assumptions and speculating, which in itself is unhelpful!) No-one can say for certain what the government’s future intentions/plans are regarding parental controls and esoteric websites (unless of course they were privy to the internal discussions and debates concerning the issue - which I'd love to be a fly on the wall for btw :D).

There will be some restriction in the form of esoteric and web forums filters enabled by default for new customers, but as things currently stand, they'll still have a choice here in the UK whether to leave the filters enabled, or disabled, just like they can with the other filters. That’s a fact. It’s not speculation or an assumption. You clearly feel the upcoming block by default is an abomination, but I don’t share that view. My view is, protecting children’s rights to be protected from harm, and their parents’ rights to choose what they believe is best for their children comes first before the desire to be able to access anything and everything freely without having to disable a few filters.


You can't be serious with this, are you?

I am serious, actually. I made very valid points in my last post. Are you serious? Because premature anticipation is nothing short of insane. ;) I should know. It's a bit like watching a random person about to do something and then anticipating them doing something bad before they do anything. :lol:

A lot of what I’m about to say is probably already obvious but I’m going to say it anyway. Don’t take it the wrong way please as it's not intended to be insulting.

A lot of what I’ve been hearing in general from people and the media is premature anticipation, largely based on assumptions stated as if they were facts. Why trust what the media has to say about anything? I think the idea of insidious intentions and censorship mainly came from the media, which is hardly a credible source. They don’t attract readers (and therefore profits) from sticking to the facts without adding a bit of drama.

One example would be the assumption that in general people will stick to the defaults (which I suspect came from someone who doesn't give people enough credit, or it's an exaggeration made by the media), which in reality isn't likely to be 100% true. Think about it. E.g, forums and online porn are very popular. Do you really think regular (adult) forum users and porn lovers will just leave things as they are when they realise what they’re trying to access is blocked? Chances are, inexperienced users will assume something’s gone wrong, and they’ll contact their ISPs. Their ISPs will tell them all they need to know about the filters at some point, if they haven’t already. I suspect savvy users will head straight to the settings and make the desired changes. Others will probably not even notice nor care if they’re only using the internet for email, IM’ing and social networking. You can bet occult communities, especially here in the UK have already heard about the esoteric filter, and the fact they can opt-out. ;)

At some point in the future, will the government attempt to censor more heavily and decide to remove the ability to visit esoteric websites? Maybe, maybe not. IF it happens, no doubt action will be taken by the occult community in the form of protests, petitions, furious letter writing and emailing, a storm of debates, etc. But right now AFAIK there isn’t a shred of concrete evidence to support the idea of heavier or complete censorship. I could be wrong. If you know of any solid evidence, please link to it here.


Trying to counter these developments is rather wise

Try telling a responsible, well-informed and concerned parent that. I'm sure they'll tell you why you're wrong.


"harmless" measures for "precaution" (against what??)

The clue is in “parental controls.” These filters are primarily aimed at enabling parents to make choices about what their children can access online! Okay, it affects everyone in the UK, but it’s not about what you say it is about. It’s not difficult to remove a block that you don’t want. Your right to access the content you want has not been breached.

Here, you can see an example of the filters likely to be available from typical ISPs soon. https://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2013/sleepwalking-into-censorship

Notice how you can enable and disable individual filters? I can tell you each and every one of them are there for a valid reason: a parent’s right to decide which types of online content is appropriate for their child(ren) to access. That includes esoteric content, including but not limited to metaphysics, various magic systems/traditions and religions.

Again, stating the obvious with regards to blocking forums and esoteric content.

Why would a parent want to filter out anything esoteric? One reason would be their beliefs. Maybe their child is a bit too irresponsible for their age. Maybe it goes against their religion. E.g. some Christians believe anything to do with the occult is evil.

Why should children be protected from forums? Paedophiles and grooming. Children and many teens lack the discernment and common sense required to protect themselves. Cyber-bullying is another valid reason. Inadvertent exposure to inappropriate embedded or linked content posted by others is another.

There’s an awful lot of occult information floating around the internet, and much of it is misguided/inaccurate. There's some dangerous information available, which even a fully-grown adult practitioner would be wise to stay away from. If a parent was irresponsible enough to allow their child(ren) access to esoteric material online without any kind of supervision, it could end up damaging the child in some way if e.g. the child were to attempt a spell or ritual, and it went wrong. Even tools like Ouija boards have been known to cause damage in the wrong hands. I know for a fact if I was a mother, I wouldn’t allow my children unsupervised access to esoteric material, online and offline until they were old enough, mature enough and responsible enough. I'm sure I'm not alone there.

So no, I don't agree esoteric material should be made freely available to everyone. I also don't feel forums and chatrooms should be available to children and teens unless they're supervised. It's right that these blocks should be enabled by default since many parents don't even have an inkling about what their kids get up to half the time, and there are too many lazy parents who can't be bothered to care. But, no parent in their right mind would explicitly disable blocks to allow their child or teen to access potentially harmful material.

Censoring what our children are exposed to online is one thing, and I welcome it, but it’s entirely another thing to prematurely anticipate eventual full censorship, China-style by the UK government, based on what, exactly? Where's your evidence that this possibility may become a reality?


Downplaying the ban on free information like this by stating 'it's not a ban' is not helpful. It's already a ban and a stigmatisation of information like this if made "subject to activation". Isn't it a little too naive to downplay this or not see the dangers in it? It's about trends.

I'm not downplaying anything. However, I do care about semantics, as annoying that might be to some.

And your comments are helpful, how?

So far in this thread, I’ve pretty much only seen assumptions and speculation with a whole bunch of premature anticipation, and I might be wrong here, but I sense much of it probably stems from a distrust of the policy-makers in government and their intentions. The collective focus on the negative side of things is basically inviting what we don’t want, and that’s unhelpful.

Naive? There's nothing naive about what I've said. I based my opinions on common sense and observations.

For obvious reasons (well, obvious to me), it would be pointless for the government to completely censor esoteric content. They wouldn't achieve anything by doing that, since there are plenty of other ways of learning, sharing, discussing and practising magic and metaphysical traditions/disciplines offline. Ask AC! lol


The internet used to be a place for free information (like this) which is what many groups or the political establishment seem to fear. Above s.o. made already the call 'fascism', it is not yet fascism but it is a little step in this direction. And this is what it's about: seeing the trends, the perils, and where it goes.

Yes, the internet was as you describe it, but then look what happened since. The internet has become a lot like the world, where criminal and other harmful activity is taking place, increasingly so. Therefore lawmakers have to become involved to some extent. It seems to me you’re making the whole ‘block by default with opt-out’ issue into something it isn’t.


Accusations of "fearbased" assumptions are not helpful here, since we still need to act on negative trends, world-wide, especially regarding the freedom of speech and opinion. And the liberty to be informed about "things" like metaphysical practices.

That's all very well, but your negative speculation is not helping. I agree we should take action when it's needed.

The UK government is not restricting any adult's free speech with regards to esoteric matters. Even if they did, you can still be informed about metaphysical practices, magic traditions, religions, and more if you wanted it badly enough. It will just happen offline under the cover of darkness. :p How do you think practitioners got by before the internet was ever dreamed of?


Being in fear or not does not matter here. You can be against these things with a very good reason and not be in fear at the same time.

Since there is resistance, it is fear-based. You cannot resist/oppose something and be totally free from fear, since by doing so you're already fearing the loss of something important to you. But, I agree that doesn't mean you can’t act with courage.

SiriusTraveler
19th September 2013, 05:55 AM
This sounds both ridiculous and absurd. Why would the UK do anything like that on the whole term "esoteric". What a weird world we live in :S

ButterflyWoman
19th September 2013, 09:01 AM
To me, this sort of "nanny government" is the equivalent of a librarian who hides "controversial" books from the public. Yes, if you know what to ask for and how to ask, you can get access to them, but that is no way to run a public library. I despise governments that think they have to protect the public from itself and make default decisions on behalf of citizens, but what troubles me even more is the complacency with which people seem to take various forms of government censorship, nannying, bullying, manipulation, etc. It really doesn't do much for my faith in humanity, I must say (not that I ever had much, but this sort of nonsense reinforces my less-than-flattering view of humanity in general).

I'm also not going to fall for the "fear based thinking" bait. If you want to believe that my distaste for bureaucratic nannying and making laws about things that have nothing to do with managing the country is based in fear, you're welcome to believe what you wish, just as you're welcome to put up with anything you want to have in your own reality. In my reality, this kind of governmental interference in matters that do not concern the government is not acceptable. The purpose of a government is to SERVE and to GOVERN, not to tell its citizens what they should be able to read by default. Laws to protect the public are all fine and good, and I respect that (traffic laws, laws against murder and mayhem and theft, etc.), even laws that regulate certain kinds of commerce and trade are sometimes appropriate, but laws that allow the government to read your email, tap your phones without warrant, detain without cause, and determine what sort of books or websites you're allowed to read -- even if you can ask them for permission to please be allowed to read what you want -- are not service, nor are they governing. They're intrusive and controlling. There is a difference.

CFTraveler
19th September 2013, 04:00 PM
This sounds both ridiculous and absurd. Why would the UK do anything like that on the whole term "esoteric". What a weird world we live in :S
To get us used to the government making such decisions for us, or like BW said, making us complacent about it.

what troubles me even more is the complacency with which people seem to take various forms of government censorship, nannying, bullying, manipulation, etc. Exactly. It's not a brave new world, it's alarming.

CFTraveler
25th September 2013, 12:23 PM
If you're in the UK, please sign the petition
http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/uk-prime-minister-david-cameron-stop-the-unnecessary-censorship-of-esoteric-websites-and-web-forums#share

Gemma
25th September 2013, 01:41 PM
I agree no government should be that controlling.

But again, the UK government is NOT telling us what to read or access on the internet. If they were, they would make it law and ban anything they deem to be unsavoury via a China-style firewall making it far, far more difficult to access anything we want, period. They haven't done that. Will they? I have no idea, but right now that isn't what's happening. I've explained why it's sensible to have certain types of content blocked by default via parental controls to protect children, and I've explained that they're dead easy and quick to disable.

In my reality, I will still be able to read and visit web forums, esoteric websites, and anything else I choose. So can anyone in this country, apart from children who are subject to their parents' decisions on the matter.

In your reality, there's some kind of conspiracy going on.

I know which reality I choose. The least stressful one.

IF the UK government starts going further to restrict the internet for ADULTS then I will take action as best as I can. People power counts for a lot. But this sort of talk is too premature imo.

Tutor
25th September 2013, 02:04 PM
seeing as the "powers that be" have waited till the tea pot is high pitchedly whistling, one hardly needs to fear that the pot will not reach boiling point [mass awakening]. it is just a last ditch artifice of false authority of power [which we ALL are passive-aggressive part and parcel to] over that which belongs to none, yet belongs to ALL of Us. none-the-less, we ALL get a lesson on assertive mass awakened responce, which reveals to us our boiling point. it's like Neil's dream, we've got to look our ugly right in the face if we're to realize our beloved beauty beyond the reflective illusion of what we imagine to be, even what we imagine ourselves to have been, to be, or yet to be.

Sinera
25th September 2013, 03:20 PM
People really need to get their act together and act before it's too late. It's high time. They've alreay gone to far in many respects, NSA, cameras, internet surveillance and all that. It's been going on for years, alternative media always have reported on it, only now the mainstream has woken up a bit, at last. It's also a testing ground how far they can go, step by step it is tested, and if allowed, then another little step, etc. We are in danger of losing a lot of rights, if not all.