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CFTraveler
1st March 2014, 05:57 PM
http://www.skinwalkerranch.org/

When I was younger, when my gfs were watching soap operas, I was watching Dark Shadows and reading FATE magazine & watching Twilight Zone & Outer Limits type of shows.
Now instead of watching reality shows I like American Horror Story and all the "Ghost investigator/stories" genre shows, and of course, stuff like Supernatural, Being Human (both versions) and all the quasi-paranormal shows except the 'too teeny- boppery types', but in a pinch I'll watch one of them too.
It's my 'guilty pleasure'. :clap: And Dr. Who too, but I'm not embarrassed about that one.

Anyway, this site tickled my fancy.

SoulSail
1st March 2014, 07:34 PM
I appreciate the attempt to classify the beings, always interesting. There's an excellent OBE site I used to read where users classify the type of entities found "out there" so explorers can compare notes. However, the link isn't appropriate to post given the medium of achieving exists. What IS important is the high level of similar experiences.

Soul

ButterflyWoman
2nd March 2014, 05:58 AM
What IS important is the high level of similar experiences.
I do wonder if sharing type groups actually influence each other, though. There's a reason why Catholic mystics (and pretty much ONLY Catholic mystics) experience a Stigmata, and only Hindu mystics experience certain kinds of Hindu-directed events, etc. etc. etc. You're given a kind of template, or, in some cases, just an idea of what might happen or what you might expect, etc., and then, amazingly, it eventually happens, just like they said!

There's nothing inherently wrong with this. I don't want to give the impression that I think so, because I don't. It's just that the similarity of experiences in a group of people who share a culture of any sort (including support groups, forums, that sort of thing) doesn't really mean that much, as the influence is probably having an effect. What we expect and believe, we experience. This happens all the time.

What I find more interesting is similar experiences from distant, cross-culture references that are unlikely to have had any direct influence. Many of the recorded teaching of Jesus are remarkably similar to the recorded teachings of the Buddha, for example. Some people see this and go, "Yeah, it IS similar.... Jesus must have gone to India to study Buddhism!" instead of the much more likely explanation that mystical insights and mystical experiences are universal, despite being shaped by one's culture, etc.

I kind of went in a circle there. I hope it made sense. I'm mostly talking to myself, if you know what I mean... ;)

IA56
2nd March 2014, 06:11 AM
I do wonder if sharing type groups actually influence each other, though. There's a reason why Catholic mystics (and pretty much ONLY Catholic mystics) experience a Stigmata, and only Hindu mystics experience certain kinds of Hindu-directed events, etc. etc. etc. You're given a kind of template, or, in some cases, just an idea of what might happen or what you might expect, etc., and then, amazingly, it eventually happens, just like they said!

There's nothing inherently wrong with this. I don't want to give the impression that I think so, because I don't. It's just that the similarity of experiences in a group of people who share a culture of any sort (including support groups, forums, that sort of thing) doesn't really mean that much, as the influence is probably having an effect. What we expect and believe, we experience. This happens all the time.

What I find more interesting is similar experiences from distant, cross-culture references that are unlikely to have had any direct influence. Many of the recorded teaching of Jesus are remarkably similar to the recorded teachings of the Buddha, for example. Some people see this and go, "Yeah, it IS similar.... Jesus must have gone to India to study Buddhism!" instead of the much more likely explanation that mystical insights and mystical experiences are universal, despite being shaped by one's culture, etc.

I kind of went in a circle there. I hope it made sense. I'm mostly talking to myself, if you know what I mean... ;)

Yes BW, that is exactly what I have noticed and experienced too, spirituallity is the same, the core, in every religion and spiritual teachings, is the same energy...because it is energy, conscious energy.
What make it different is the what have put around or surround the core, covered by belief, if you understand what I mean ...;-)

Love
ia

eyeoneblack
2nd March 2014, 04:48 PM
Frankly, I'm caught in a spiritual ennui. Bored. Nothing is spectacular anymore and my experiences reflect nothing of interest. My dreams seem to be so ordinary. I'm caught in a ditch with nothing compelling enough to pull me out.

I hope this situation will soon find some traction to leap again and appreciate the supernatural underpinnings of my psyche. Certainly this 'down' cycle will end.

Sinera
2nd March 2014, 05:37 PM
Many of the recorded teaching of Jesus are remarkably similar to the recorded teachings of the Buddha, for example. Some people see this and go, "Yeah, it IS similar.... Jesus must have gone to India to study Buddhism!" instead of the much more likely explanation that mystical insights and mystical experiences are universal, despite being shaped by one's culture, etc.
Apart from that which you say about mystical experiences being alike is of course right, isn't there some evidence that Jesus went to India, albeit flimsy?

Officially the Church of course downright denies it (don't remember how they handled the 'missing years' actually) but many say it could be true. There are even documentaries (on YT) made about this, too lazy to link some of them here now.

ButterflyWoman
2nd March 2014, 09:55 PM
Frankly, I'm caught in a spiritual ennui. Bored. Nothing is spectacular anymore and my experiences reflect nothing of interest.
I went through a long period like that. Everything was ordinary, everything was the same. And then, one day, for no reason that I could see, it all just flipped, and suddenly every single thing I could see, touch, hear, or even imagine was obviously Divine. It was astounding, and glorious.

And now, I experience both, pretty much simultaneously. Everything is, indeed, entirely ordinary and unremarkable, and at the same time, it's utterly and absolutely Divine. It's like they're overlaid on each other. I can see both, but my focus determines which is more present. Finding a balance between them has been a challenge that I'm still working with, actually. The balance between "it's all perfect, because it's all one, because it's all divine" (in which state you get nothing done) and "it's all the same, ordinary, unremarkable" (in which state you get your material stuff taken care of but you're not particularly happy about any of it) is tricky to find.

I understand this is the Hindu path of the Householder, for what it's worth. That narrow middle road between all-Divinity-all-the-time and Same-old-same-old-gotta-get-the-laundry-done. :)

No idea if any of that will help you or anyone else. Just wanted to write it down.

ButterflyWoman
2nd March 2014, 10:01 PM
isn't there some evidence that Jesus went to India, albeit flimsy?
From the point of view of an extremely open minded historian, the "evidence" is worse than flimsy. It's also culturally extremely unlikely, given the historical era. I wouldn't say it's impossible, but it's so very unlikely and with such poor supporting evidence (none of which, apparently, survives, imagine that) that I think it can be pretty much discounted. It would be cool if it were true, and I'd be very interested in that, but, unfortunately, it seems powerfully unlikely. Like I said, not impossible, but... unless some sort of actual evidence were to turn up (other than, for example, one westerner's report of having seen a document which was translated to him and which he interpreted to mean that Jesus had been to a particular Buddhist monastery, the document having now disappeared), I can't give it any credence at all.

eyeoneblack
3rd March 2014, 08:13 AM
"it's all the same, ordinary, unremarkable" (in which state you get your material stuff taken care of but you're not particularly happy about any of it) is tricky to find.

I understand this is the Hindu path of the Householder, for what it's worth. That narrow middle road between all-Divinity-all-the-time and Same-old-same-old-gotta-get-the-laundry-done. :)


Thank you for a note of understanding. Yes, been taking care of business. This too shall pass. :-O

I have read Jesus went to Alexandria where he learned occult (Priest) esoterica; what is NOT interpolated about the Mythic man?!

ButterflyWoman
3rd March 2014, 11:53 AM
I have read Jesus went to Alexandria where he learned occult (Priest) esoterica; what is NOT interpolated about the Mythic man?!
I haven't researched that at all, so I can't say, but Alexandria would be a lot more likely. There was a quite large Jewish Diaspora living in Alexandria for centuries, and certainly around the time of Jesus.

There's also some speculation (with reasonable support, though no smoking gun, so to speak) that Jesus was an Essene, or at least that he was associated with the Essene community at Qumran. John the Baptist (who was probably a real person; there's no reason to think he wasn't) was almost certainly an Essene, or very much influenced by their beliefs and practices.

It's an extremely interesting field of inquiry, to say the least, and one of my favourites. It's actually part of why I decided to do Ancient History as opposed to some other area. I'm kinda fascinated with "the source of the river", so to speak. :)

IA56
3rd March 2014, 12:09 PM
I haven't researched that at all, so I can't say, but Alexandria would be a lot more likely. There was a quite large Jewish Diaspora living in Alexandria for centuries, and certainly around the time of Jesus.

There's also some speculation (with reasonable support, though no smoking gun, so to speak) that Jesus was an Essene, or at least that he was associated with the Essene community at Qumran. John the Baptist (who was probably a real person; there's no reason to think he wasn't) was almost certainly an Essene, or very much influenced by their beliefs and practices.

It's an extremely interesting field of inquiry, to say the least, and one of my favourites. It's actually part of why I decided to do Ancient History as opposed to some other area. I'm kinda fascinated with "the source of the river", so to speak. :)


I am amazed over the fact that you are talking about the historical persons whom them assume to have lived and what they ment in the bible....when it in fact are written in kodīs....it has nothing to do whith the writers...but the kabbalistick codeīs about the divine nature in us to develop....I have just started to listen to the teachings....and what like Luke is reprecented is Malcut...Yesod is represented by Mathew..Hod by Mark...Netsah by John and Tiphoreth bu Moses...etc etc...so why are you trying to chase something what never will bring any acurat answereīs??? I am so amazed over this still in 2014 is not understood better...wow.

Love
ia

eyeoneblack
3rd March 2014, 12:48 PM
I haven't read the apostles associated with the Kabbalah but Tiphareth is the Son (Sun), Jesus, not Moses. He sits at the gate to the Kingdom on the center path. I count on the ancient texts for this understanding.

Glad to know your investigating this foundational truth and understanding. :)

CFTraveler
3rd March 2014, 02:07 PM
Ia, it is also my belief that the bible is a manyfold document (or rather,series of documents) and that it is known that the old testament was written in a language that has more than one meaning- the meaning of the words, and the 'hidden numerical meaning' which can be considered like a code in that it has background meanings, and that sometimes the stories are told in such a way as to show a specific metaphysical truth or lesson, and this is why some of us say that the Bible is a series of books which can be interpreted in layers of meaning, every character having their own 'worth' as historical figures, symbols of a more fundamental metaphysical meaning, and perhaps even deeper than that. But that doesn't mean that events didn't happen- we know that some historical events happened (even if not necessarily in the timeframes given) and that some characters lived- shown every day by archeological discoveries.
It's a very rich history, mythology and symbology- but they're not necessarily mutually exclusive.

ButterflyWoman
3rd March 2014, 02:23 PM
It's a very rich history, mythology and symbology- but they're not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Indeed. Which is why I study it. Mythology, history, archeology, textual criticism, mystical meanings, all of it. It's a many-faceted jewel, and what you see varies, depending on how you turn it.

IA56
3rd March 2014, 03:39 PM
I haven't read the apostles associated with the Kabbalah but Tiphareth is the Son (Sun), Jesus, not Moses. He sits at the gate to the Kingdom on the center path. I count on the ancient texts for this understanding.

Glad to know your investigating this foundational truth and understanding. :)

Yes Richard you are right, but Moses is also on this level because of the title of a sheperd he also was :-)

Love
ia

IA56
3rd March 2014, 03:43 PM
Ia, it is also my belief that the bible is a manyfold document (or rather,series of documents) and that it is known that the old testament was written in a language that has more than one meaning- the meaning of the words, and the 'hidden numerical meaning' which can be considered like a code in that it has background meanings, and that sometimes the stories are told in such a way as to show a specific metaphysical truth or lesson, and this is why some of us say that the Bible is a series of books which can be interpreted in layers of meaning, every character having their own 'worth' as historical figures, symbols of a more fundamental metaphysical meaning, and perhaps even deeper than that. But that doesn't mean that events didn't happen- we know that some historical events happened (even if not necessarily in the timeframes given) and that some characters lived- shown every day by archeological discoveries.
It's a very rich history, mythology and symbology- but they're not necessarily mutually exclusive.


Yes CFT, that is true, they have linked those historical persons because of theire way to try to crack the code so to speak, and it does not aply to right time line so to speak, and this is the comfusion of history :-)
There will Always be historical people whom we will say is a incarnation of masters from other timeīs, and I Think it is true for some to incarnate and continue theire teachings :-)

Love
ia

Sinera
3rd March 2014, 08:57 PM
So is anyone into Mythicism (no, it's not a typo for mysticism)? Astrotheology, etc.?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKW9sbJ3v2w

I once read a book on it years ago. It's interesting and some of it makes sense, although I guess it is (mis)used by atheists a lot. It was also a part of that Zeitgeist movie (2007 iirc).

But as CFT said, there are many layers to these "stories". Astrotheology might be a part, but historical figures who 'play out a role' for humanity do not contradict it in my view, including the 'meta'stuff like healing, miracles etc.

The fact that many 'sons of God' have some similarities in their attributes and story (Jesus, Mithras, Osiris, Buddha, etc) does not refute for me their historicity. Rather, as said, they played their role they came for!

Moreover, in reincarnation regression hypnosis research, e.g. the two books by Dolores Cannon (of which I read "Jesus and the Essenes" once) Jesus was indeed found to be 1. historical and 2. an Essene and 3. some parts of the Gospel accounts true, but other parts a bit 'different' and many parts missing (e.g. Jesus is said there to have been in England, cannot remember anything about India or so). There's also a short chapter in Brian Weiss' book on Jesus' time in Jerusalem.

So again, the truth is multifold - and confusing. I think he was historical and he also took on a pre-existing myth and some things were also projected onto him (the myth) later like onto other great spiritual teachers.

CFTraveler
3rd March 2014, 09:58 PM
Very interesting. She reminds me of someone I used to know many years ago.

IA56
4th March 2014, 05:40 AM
I haven't read the apostles associated with the Kabbalah but Tiphareth is the Son (Sun), Jesus, not Moses. He sits at the gate to the Kingdom on the center path. I count on the ancient texts for this understanding.

Glad to know your investigating this foundational truth and understanding. :)

I continue to write here about this Kabbala vs religion or expressed in religions without knowing it is the inner most Jesus and apostles is refering too...that is the deepest knowledge but also trying to make people to work by action in Life to make the inner most to grow, to develop the other bodies....mental, kausal astral etc....I have just started to study this and I have already got so many answeres what has bean unanswered ...there is only Kabbalah who does know the language of GOD and this is all the masters tried to take down to us on Earth....and now it is open for everyone to study...I am so gratful :-)

Love
ia

IA56
4th March 2014, 06:14 AM
So is anyone into Mythicism (no, it's not a typo for mysticism)? Astrotheology, etc.?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKW9sbJ3v2w

I once read a book on it years ago. It's interesting and some of it makes sense, although I guess it is (mis)used by atheists a lot. It was also a part of that Zeitgeist movie (2007 iirc).

But as CFT said, there are many layers to these "stories". Astrotheology might be a part, but historical figures who 'play out a role' for humanity do not contradict it in my view, including the 'meta'stuff like healing, miracles etc.

The fact that many 'sons of God' have some similarities in their attributes and story (Jesus, Mithras, Osiris, Buddha, etc) does not refute for me their historicity. Rather, as said, they played their role they came for!

Moreover, in reincarnation regression hypnosis research, e.g. the two books by Dolores Cannon (of which I read "Jesus and the Essenes" once) Jesus was indeed found to be 1. historical and 2. an Essene and 3. some parts of the Gospel accounts true, but other parts a bit 'different' and many parts missing (e.g. Jesus is said there to have been in England, cannot remember anything about India or so). There's also a short chapter in Brian Weiss' book on Jesus' time in Jerusalem.

So again, the truth is multifold - and confusing. I think he was historical and he also took on a pre-existing myth and some things were also projected onto him (the myth) later like onto other great spiritual teachers.


Thank you for this post :-) great!!
I Think also that humans are very good inventors in thought forms and greating chaos and horror...if everyone did work on theire inner darkness to transform it to light and laugh and joy and love, then really earth is a paradise to be on....I canīt understand we are destroying this beautiful planet, and not taking care of our inner most development, what is the only thing what remains.

Love
ia

SoulSail
4th March 2014, 09:06 PM
Speaking of Jesus and Kabbalah...anyone read the story of how Jesus used the Earth element, uh, I mean mud, to heal a blind man?

Then there was that bit about baptizing in the Water element.

And tongues descending in the Fire element after his death.


I think I'll stop before I sound like I'm suggesting Jesus was into Kabbalistic magic.


I think he was into love. Period.


Soul

IA56
5th March 2014, 06:05 AM
Speaking of Jesus and Kabbalah...anyone read the story of how Jesus used the Earth element, uh, I mean mud, to heal a blind man?

Then there was that bit about baptizing in the Water element.

And tongues descending in the Fire element after his death.


I think I'll stop before I sound like I'm suggesting Jesus was into Kabbalistic magic.


I think he was into love. Period.


Soul

Hi Soul,
I do not even know what that meanīs....Kabbalistic magic??
As I have just started to know gnostic and Kabbalah...I am not into magic at all, as I see so far both gnostic and kabbalah is a rich symbolic language....we know that there is elementīs ...and we know about the several bodies we have...flesh, etheric, astral, kausal, mental...we know this by astral projection that we have several bodies, right??
All historical masters have lived here as we do, in flesh body, so what they have given us to know is that we all are capable to do the same journey as they did....but to understand GOD that he/she/it is only energy and are talking by elementīs to us...and we do understand GOD when we have developed our other bodies...and to be aware of all this, we must have awaken to know this is true.
As long as we are not awaken into this knowledge we do not understand the sprirutual scripts how they are written in codeīs.
Every element has itīs own language...every body has itīs own symbolic language.
So as far as I understand if I talk about bible...is that every apostel of Jesus is to be understood in tree of Life to get a deeper knowing of the energy so to speak...I am just starting to study all this symbolic language so I am not going to debate about it or to defend anything....but I will give my Point of view when ever that is possible for me gained any further undestanding by studying this symbolic rich language.

Love
ia

SoulSail
5th March 2014, 02:04 PM
Hi Soul,


As long as we are not awaken into this knowledge we do not understand the sprirutual scripts how they are written in codeīs...


Hi Ia,

First, let me applaud your search down this road. It is very interesting material, and to see an intelligent pattern emerge where we once only saw randomness or even chaos can be rewarding. I encourage your study. However, I want to also encourage you to consider that "Spiritual Truth" may not be hidden in actuality, and may not need esoteric study to be surfaced. I'm expressing my opinions and beliefs here, but I've come to believe that truth, liberation, and everything good are so simple and close that it's our searching for these things that makes them hard to find. It's like a man running with a flashlight, trying to catch the beam. Some of us see very elaborate patterns in the light of that beam, but they are only reflections of what already exists at the source of the beam. Again, just my take.

I don't want to come across as though I'm challenging a belief system or a path you're enjoying--that's the whole point of this exercise in life--to walk down paths to see what's there. I'm simply suggesting that at the end of the road there's only One, and only one is necessary. And that thing is us, and we are It, and that is stillness and love, our true nature. Of course, settling into that nature can seem impossible since the experience of it is often missing.

I guess what I'm really trying to say here is that it's important, so very important that we don't place our own happiness at the end of some excruciating search for what's already there, in us at all times. Humans do this. We look outward for something to bring the peace within, and this is backward. Nothing "out there" holds the key or secret. Our minds usually tend to keep looking outward anyhow, it's their nature to do so. So what happens when we relax the need to find peace through external things, places and states?

Now, that's another journey entirely.


Soul

IA56
5th March 2014, 02:38 PM
Hi Ia,

First, let me applaud your search down this road. It is very interesting material, and to see an intelligent pattern emerge where we once only saw randomness or even chaos can be rewarding. I encourage your study. However, I want to also encourage you to consider that "Spiritual Truth" may not be hidden in actuality, and may not need esoteric study to be surfaced. I'm expressing my opinions and beliefs here, but I've come to believe that truth, liberation, and everything good are so simple and close that it's our searching for these things that makes them hard to find. It's like a man running with a flashlight, trying to catch the beam. Some of us see very elaborate patterns in the light of that beam, but they are only reflections of what already exists at the source of the beam. Again, just my take.

I don't want to come across as though I'm challenging a belief system or a path you're enjoying--that's the whole point of this exercise in life--to walk down paths to see what's there. I'm simply suggesting that at the end of the road there's only One, and only one is necessary. And that thing is us, and we are It, and that is stillness and love, our true nature. Of course, settling into that nature can seem impossible since the experience of it is often missing.

I guess what I'm really trying to say here is that it's important, so very important that we don't place our own happiness at the end of some excruciating search for what's already there, in us at all times. Humans do this. We look outward for something to bring the peace within, and this is backward. Nothing "out there" holds the key or secret. Our minds usually tend to keep looking outward anyhow, it's their nature to do so. So what happens when we relax the need to find peace through external things, places and states?

Now, that's another journey entirely.


Soul


Hi Soul,
You are so right, we do not need any study but in my case I am in awe to find out my experiences to get wordīs to express.
I have tons of experiences what has not make any sense to me until I started to study gnostic and Kabbala

For instance....I did experience in astral or beyond...I was communicating with my body...and I did make with my body...the syllable....H....E....J.....and now when undestanding more about elementals and stuff...all is giving me answeres or wordīs to express my experiences...

Yes, all is simple and I am trying to keep it simple.

Thank you for your support, Iīd like very much to hear more about your knowing, please share it open here or please PM me.

Love
ia

ButterflyWoman
6th March 2014, 12:25 AM
I've come to believe that truth, liberation, and everything good are so simple and close that it's our searching for these things that makes them hard to find.
This.

:thumbsup: