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DerFürst
27th March 2014, 12:19 AM
Words don't do justice to anything I wish to speak about to people, which is really a shame since I'd love to tell everybody. In my current state of being, it's too difficult to truly voice my sentiments because language isn't properly adapted for conveying information of such magnitude. I've gone past the point where research is beneficial, and past the point where any activity other than developing myself can give me joy. The state of being I'm coming into is conflicting with my old habits and I'm having to keep them in check.

Despite this apparent acceleration, I know I can do more. Based on all of my experiences, I've come to the conclusion that kundalini is the next step. For the past few months, I've been working on the RK program to great benefit. I understand much of which is now required, and as a result, have been given the direction necessary to focus my efforts. In doing so, I've found that the direct path allows me to fix problems as I go. Despite this, I still feel the need to ask people questions because I've actually found it makes things quicker at times.

I can very easily enter the light trance state and I've experienced how energy work is mildly amplified in this state. However, it seems very plain to me that regardless of how long I do energy work in the light trance, the amount of energy I pull simply isn't enough, especially for what's required to raise kundalini.

There are a few things I've intuited as keeping me back, and so I have a few questions based on my circumstances.

What are good methods of entering the deep trance state, preferably without using headphones?Visualization techniques seem to be effective for me.
How can I maintain relaxation? It seems that after an hour or so of complete stillness I always seem to become extremely uncomfortable.
Whenever my neck is exposed, which it always is during a meditation, I have this strange desire to cover it up, as if my body were afraid of it being cut or strangled. This detracts from my level of relaxation all the time and it really bugs me. How should I deal with this?

If you notice anything that resembles ego in this post, try to ignore it. It seems like it's literally impossible to write anything truly devoid of self.

TheSingular
27th March 2014, 07:34 AM
How much time you spend in this 'light' trance state? I think it might be deeper than you think. Does your body feel asleep during session? If so, that is already a deep state and it gets even deeper when you stay in an altered stated for nearly 90 minutes. (more like 70-80 mins for me) At that point, you can feel the shift in your consciousness and energy work gets even more robust while you're in that state.

And don't move too fast when you have to, this will quickly break your altered state and you'll have to spend more time to enter that state again. Do it like you have been awakened in the morning but still want to sleep way; and this will help you to keep that state.


And please remember that kundalini requires A LOT of energy in the base center to raise according to him, so you will need more than one hour, probably several hours.

With Love,
TheSingular

(Just think of this as a pre-advice before Robert replies please. This post is based on what I know from my personal experiences. I didn't raise kundalini myself, but I know about this because I tried at least and I know that, doing it for that duration is not enough for it, unless there are exceptions, which I'm not one of them in this sense)

DerFürst
27th March 2014, 01:42 PM
How much time you spend in this 'light' trance state? I think it might be deeper than you think. Does your body feel asleep during session? If so, that is already a deep state and it gets even deeper when you stay in an altered stated for nearly 90 minutes. (more like 70-80 mins for me) At that point, you can feel the shift in your consciousness and energy work gets even more robust while you're in that state.

I'll give you a few of the "symptoms" to clear things up. After anywhere from 30-50 minutes my body will have become increasingly more and more sensitive, until eventually I have the sensation of bloating and mild paralysis. My arms and legs specifically will seem like they've lifted up about an inch or two off their stationary position, which is what I assume is the "loosening." The space around me seems to become slightly larger. Thoughts will come and go, but most of the time concepts that I would use thought words in my waking state to describe to myself are no longer in words. Either they'll be in images or the concepts will seemingly "snap" into being understood without words at all, which is pretty neat. It seems to be easier to lose my focus in this state without noticing, but practice will solve that. Total paralysis is not here. Actual paralysis takes effort to move out of, whereas this level does not.

This just doesn't seem like the deep-deep trance RB is referring to. My experience tells me that I haven't entered that "deep trance state" just bordering sleep.

TheSingular
27th March 2014, 04:06 PM
It looks like you're on the right track. For me; it does go progressive for a while, after a while you don't notice the difference even if it goes progressive(probably because I don't focus on that, i generally focus on energy work instead and it creates its own sensations to focus on) and at that shift point, I just feel it going even deeper, it happens automatically.

One more question I will ask you to be more sure: Do you feel sleepy if you break it too quickly? The altered consciousness state we're talking about is simply a state between sleep and normal awake consciousness and involves the body being asleep. Going into it is like falling asleep, you just stop it in somewhere between and stay in that state for the benefits it offers. So in the same sense, stopping the meditation session and coming back from that state is simply like waking up. And you generally feel sleepy when you wake up.

I'll also try to answer one more question you have asked before:
To go into this state of consciousness, you'll need to be physically and mentally relaxed. (I know you already heard and know that from Robert, but I need a point to start from :P ) To achieve this, there are actually a variety of tools available to you to use. Mental commands, visualizations, awareness belly breathing, and some bineural beats and others all are good examples. (These are the ones that I can remember right now)
To relax your muscles, for example; you can tell your muscles to relax and sleep(mentally), and they will do that. Or you can visualize them relaxing, or you can visualize something entirely different that you find relaxing. Or you can forget about them and focus on your breathing, and relax more and more with each breath. You can even tense them physically first and let go of them and they will relax. The possibilities are many, if not infinite. In this sense, I need to copy Robert's words exactly:(or almost exactly) Experiment with each method, find the one that works best, or even create your own. It's simply what works, works.

To mentally relax, it's usually useful to focus on one thing when you're trying to relax your mind. This will help you to keep the usual "chatter" in your mind off. Alternatively, you can put all of your physical matters, anxiety and worries into a strong box during a visualization and close it tightly, then moving it out of sight. Mental commands also help here again, "I choose not tothink about this. I choose to clear my mind."(Again, thanks to Robert :P ) and "I don't need these these physical matters, anxiety, and worries. I choose to put them away from me.(or preferably "into the box", the one I mentioned earlier, to support the visualization and make it more effective)" are some that are helpful to me. And it's again, up to you to find out what works best. I can simply give some example methods that work for me.

There is one more thing that helps you at this: Practise. As you do it, you'll find it easier and quicker to go into an altered state of consciousness.

I also don't know what causes the the thing about your neck after an hour or so, so I don't think I can help you about that.

I hope that helps.
With Love,
TheSingular

John Sorensen
30th March 2014, 03:38 AM
What are good methods of entering the deep trance state, preferably without using headphones?Visualization techniques seem to be effective for me.
How can I maintain relaxation? It seems that after an hour or so of complete stillness I always seem to become extremely uncomfortable.
Whenever my neck is exposed, which it always is during a meditation, I have this strange desire to cover it up, as if my body were afraid of it being cut or strangled. This detracts from my level of relaxation all the time and it really bugs me. How should I deal with this?

If you notice anything that resembles ego in this post, try to ignore it. It seems like it's literally impossible to write anything truly devoid of self.

Regarding your level of "comfort".

First I would ask what is that you are doing that you need to be in this position for more than an hour than you can not do in two half hour sessions?

From my perspective, meditation can be done in many positions. Over the years some positions I have used successfully have included: Chi Gung Walking (30 minutes, and up to two hours in a state of alpha/theta brain waves), standing on my head for ten minutes with deep breathing, hanging up side down from tree branches, sitting in half-lotus, sitting with legs folded under / Seiza (Japanese sitting), sitting on a chair with a straight back, and lying down on a semi-hard surface, including: concrete, carpet, metal, wood, grass.

If you are having trouble sitting for long periods of time, I suggest to you that it is because our bodies were designed to move.

When you sit for long periods, the effect of gravity can be that your body gets quite sore. We NEED to move, to stimulate flow of blood, increase oxygen through exercise, stimulate lymph fluid and other essential activities of the body.

To have the least negative effect on our body, how would we remain stationary for the longest period of time (for whatever reason) with the least amount of discomfort and not pinching our nerves, or robbing our tissues of the essential supply of blood, oxygen and nutrients?

Well, what position do you sleep in?

Lying down is the obvious answer. In my experience, sitting for longer than one hour in seiza or half-lotus has a rather negative effect on my body, so I am to be stationary this long, I lie down, on a hard flat surface with a neutral spine.

But, won't you fall asleep?

Yes and no.

Practice, and you will stay awake, don't lie in your bed, as you associate bed with sleep. Don't do this when very tired, as you will likely fall asleep. With this method, I have staid stationary for maybe 2-3 hours, but I don't see any point in it.

My daily habits are 15-30-45 minute sitting meditations. I only use longer periods if I am doing healing or deep muscle relaxation, sometimes in Alpha, Sometimes in Theta, or sometimes totally withdrawing the senses from the body, but not not dreaming, or astral travel, just a deep void of peace and restfullness, you can call it "resting in energy of being, or body, or higher self", but these are just words.

There are monks in Japan "Tendai Mountain Monks" who do a 7 day meditation with no sleep, no food, and NO WATER, for 24 hours per day, for 7 days, AFTER running one hundred 52 mile marathons in a row. However, they do get up and move around during the 7 day period. It is a rather extreme practice.

To sit / lie longer periods, learn deep muscle relaxation methods and get vigorous exercise BEFORE meditation, as you will have increased the oxygen in your body/blood and make it far easier to sit for longer period of time, with less negative effects. As for pins and needles in your legs, use more cushions/ pillows to support yourself.

You may also wish to improve your posture, look up "Biomechanics", if you sit in bio-mechanically poor posture, you get sore very fast, no mystery to this.

As you train your mind/body, you will be able to relax deeper, with less effort by building new neural pathways in your brain, and muscle and nerve memory, creating a program/shortcut that you will be able to run automatically, making it easier to command your body to relax whenever you like.

Feel free to ask Q's.

"If there is tension in your body, it is because you are holding it there"

"Focused intention becomes reality"

Infinite
30th March 2014, 07:06 AM
To relax your muscles, for example; you can tell your muscles to relax and sleep(mentally), and they will do that. Or you can visualize them relaxing, or you can visualize something entirely different that you find relaxing. Or you can forget about them and focus on your breathing, and relax more and more with each breath. You can even tense them physically first and let go of them and they will relax. The possibilities are many, if not infinite. In this sense, I need to copy Robert's words exactly:(or almost exactly) Experiment with each method, find the one that works best, or even create your own. It's simply what works, works.
TheSingular

Hey DerFurst, If you have not already tried or been advised, the physical tensing and relaxing of all the muscle groups of the body (as per Roberts Mastering Astral Projection CD companion) or exercise prior to your sessions would be beneficial, for me I have had most success with the deepest altered states resulting in OBE's and other profound experiences by using these methods. It can be very difficult when the body is not 100% relaxed. Many times I have had partial OBE's because areas of my body are still too tense and have held me back. This needs to be practiced until your body is trained to be able to get into this physically relaxed state just with the intent or a couple of energy bounces. Until then I suggest doing the tensing and relaxing.

Hope that helps.

Sending Love and Light,
Infinite.

John Sorensen
30th March 2014, 07:47 AM
Hey DerFurst, If you have not already tried or been advised, the physical tensing and relaxing of all the muscle groups of the body (as per Roberts Mastering Astral Projection CD companion) or exercise prior to your sessions would be beneficial, for me I have had most success with the deepest altered states resulting in OBE's and other profound experiences by using these methods. It can be very difficult when the body is not 100% relaxed. Many times I have had partial OBE's because areas of my body are still too tense and have held me back. This needs to be practiced until your body is trained to be able to get into this physically relaxed state just with the intent or a couple of energy bounces. Until then I suggest doing the tensing and relaxing.

Hope that helps.

Sending Love and Light,
Infinite.

Yes, when you body is not totally relaxed, your attention is tied up in it. When totally relaxed, you can "let go".

It gets easier with practice DerFurst.

DerFürst
31st March 2014, 02:55 AM
Yes, when you body is not totally relaxed, your attention is tied up in it. When totally relaxed, you can "let go".

It gets easier with practice DerFurst.

I'm thoroughly impressed with how dedicated you are. Just listening to your accomplishments makes me realize how soft I've been on myself. Yes, practice is all I need and that requires better use of time and conscious observation in order to continue improving. I seem to have a lot of trouble with relaxation though. Everyone has told me that I'm far too serious. Seriousness has worked towards my advantage, but I've taken it to the extreme and so I'm very tense. I need to work on balancing that out for sure.

Robert had suggested using a chair in the course for long session energy work, but I can't seem to get myself beyond a light trance in a chair. 50 minutes is about all I can stand in a chair really, then it becomes so uncomfortable that I can't go much farther. Recently, I layed down on my back as you suggested and found out how much of a difference there was. About 40 minutes into it I found myself in between wakefulness and sleep. At one point I had my eyes open and my was looking at my ceiling while also watching myself myself in a dream, as if two scenes were overlayed on top of each other. Time passed by very quickly in this state, and I wasn't fully aware of what was going on. However, the energetic sensations in my body were definitely stronger, and if I had been able to control this state better, I would have been able to use it. When I finally decided to end this, I found myself in a totally different state of mind that I can't quite explain. Interestingly enough, the first thing I did upon bringing myself back was look at my right hand because of how stimulated it seemed to be. I saw what appeared to be tiny struts coming out of my fingers, and the middle of my palm seemed to be a whirling pattern. I confirmed this wasn't simply my eyesight acting up by moving my hand around in different positions, whilst still these visual anomalies followed my hand. After about a minute this state of mind wore off and I came back to being fully awake, and the visual anomalies disappeared.

If I can learn how to remain in these trances without accidentally dotting out, I can only imagine how much I can get done. I definitely need practice with meditation to avoid falling asleep, but I believe this is my ticket to all sorts of things, like OBEs and doing more effective energy work to facilitate psychic development.

Infinite
31st March 2014, 09:25 AM
Robert had suggested using a chair in the course for long session energy work, but I can't seem to get myself beyond a light trance in a chair. 50 minutes is about all I can stand in a chair really, then it becomes so uncomfortable that I can't go much farther. Recently, I layed down on my back as you suggested and found out how much of a difference there was. About 40 minutes into it I found myself in between wakefulness and sleep. At one point I had my eyes open and my was looking at my ceiling while also watching myself myself in a dream, as if two scenes were overlayed on top of each other.

I saw what appeared to be tiny struts coming out of my fingers, and the middle of my palm seemed to be a whirling pattern. I confirmed this wasn't simply my eyesight acting up by moving my hand around in different positions, whilst still these visual anomalies followed my hand. After about a minute this state of mind wore off and I came back to being fully awake, and the visual anomalies disappeared.


Excellent! Sounds like you have found your ideal body position for altered state work or at least getting there. I also do all of my work on my back and even in my bed. This is easy and does not link to sleep as I lay on my back with my knees bent and I cannot sleep on my back, so i t works out well. Just keep playing around with different conditions until you find the ideal one for you. Also follow Roberts suggestions with regards to introducing a small amount of discomfort perhaps a board under your feet so you are not completely comfortable such as when you go to bed.

Beautiful work with the Auric Sight as well. I remember years ago when I did Roberts PAPI (Practical Astral Projection Intensive) having the exact same experience.. I was only doing the energy work practices but as you may be aware of by now these help you get into an altered state just like altered states help with the energy work. I looked at my hand to be pleasantly surprised to see the minor chakras in the joints of my fingers my palm minor chakras and the joining channels, this is very exciting and great for the belief system rebuild as it gives you validation and the more validation you get the more open to similar experiences you become.

Also how amazing is it having 2 sets of memories for the exact same period of time. Proves the mind split effect.. Again great to experience and good for the training of astral memory / shadow memory downloading. We have so many experiences like this that we simply do not remember. Goes to show your doing really well.

Don't be too hard on yourself about how often you practice as if u push yourself too hard and fast it can end up not only becoming a chore but also stressing you out energetically, try to follow your intuition if it doesn't feel right or you get a strong feeling that you really cant be bothered then there is no shame in choosing a time that suits you better. As you do develop more and more you end up wanting to do it more and more and it doesn't then become a chore at all and your energy body can take the more intense energy work. As Robert says try not to over stress the energy body if you can help it as then you might have to take long periods of time off in between. This is where again the physical exercise or gardening or anything like that comes in handy. I do intense energy work one night then the next day ill go to the gym and completely deplete myself, there are also other methods for removing the excess energy but this way you get to work on the physical body fitness too. Remember we are a multidimensional, multifaceted being but.. one of these facets is the physical body and I have found through direct experience that it is best to try and work on them all so that imbalance does not occur and congestion of excess energy is avoided.. Your chakras do not operate at their optimum if there is imbalance or way to much energy in one chakra.. (of course there are exceptions to this depending on what you are trying to accomplish) There are methods in Pranic Healing where you learn to scan for these imbalances and correct them with out just waiting till it sorts itself out.. so that might be worth a look into if you wish to accelerate your growth.. That being said even without these tools try to keep balance in your life. Good nutrition, good water, physical health, face and accept you emotions without letting them become you, be present, watch your thoughts, practice character building and introspection and work with energy and your growth will be explosive.

Keep up the good work.

Sending Love and Light.
Infinite.

John Sorensen
31st March 2014, 02:03 PM
I'm thoroughly impressed with how dedicated you are. Just listening to your accomplishments makes me realize how soft I've been on myself. Yes, practice is all I need and that requires better use of time and conscious observation in order to continue improving. I seem to have a lot of trouble with relaxation though. Everyone has told me that I'm far too serious. Seriousness has worked towards my advantage, but I've taken it to the extreme and so I'm very tense. I need to work on balancing that out for sure.

Robert had suggested using a chair in the course for long session energy work, but I can't seem to get myself beyond a light trance in a chair. 50 minutes is about all I can stand in a chair really, then it becomes so uncomfortable that I can't go much farther. Recently, I layed down on my back as you suggested and found out how much of a difference there was. About 40 minutes into it I found myself in between wakefulness and sleep. At one point I had my eyes open and my was looking at my ceiling while also watching myself myself in a dream, as if two scenes were overlayed on top of each other. Time passed by very quickly in this state, and I wasn't fully aware of what was going on. However, the energetic sensations in my body were definitely stronger, and if I had been able to control this state better, I would have been able to use it. When I finally decided to end this, I found myself in a totally different state of mind that I can't quite explain. Interestingly enough, the first thing I did upon bringing myself back was look at my right hand because of how stimulated it seemed to be. I saw what appeared to be tiny struts coming out of my fingers, and the middle of my palm seemed to be a whirling pattern. I confirmed this wasn't simply my eyesight acting up by moving my hand around in different positions, whilst still these visual anomalies followed my hand. After about a minute this state of mind wore off and I came back to being fully awake, and the visual anomalies disappeared.

If I can learn how to remain in these trances without accidentally dotting out, I can only imagine how much I can get done. I definitely need practice with meditation to avoid falling asleep, but I believe this is my ticket to all sorts of things, like OBEs and doing more effective energy work to facilitate psychic development.


Well I trained in martial arts for years and so I apply the same mentality to most things. Practice, practice, practice, go to sleep doing practice, wake up doing practice, go to work doing practice. My whole life is just practice. Like a broken record. Thank you for your words, I am just a beginner.

Yes, also I had this issue for many years of carrying excess tension in my body, especially neck and shoulders. But now, not so.

I might say - Be easy with practice, be hard on mental delusions.

Robert Bruce
22nd April 2014, 03:29 AM
Fasting will help with controlling the ego and its habits. This, in time, crushes the ego. then you can rebuild it to work for you rather than against you. it is very powerful and an essential ingredient in your being.

Most of what you are experiencing is private, and should be kept private. normal people are not open to such discussion. but people on the same path will understand.

the key to deeper states is time and practice and patience. the engine that drives this is deep, deep, deep physical mental relaxation. this takes time to master. Be patient and keep at it every day and you will progressively get deeper. there are no shortcuts beyond altered state sounds, but these are like training wheels and while they are most helpful, eventually you need to do it under your own steam.

Wear a scarf during meditation....this may help.

The length of a meditation is a journey in and of itself. you will find that 90 minutes or so are needed to get fully settled.

Keep at it and you will get used to this. your body will ache and be uncomfortable because your flesh is hanging differently in and erect position (I assume you are using a chair...if not, consider this as it helps enormously). As the flesh hangs, because your body is asleep, it stretches ligaments that are not used to this situation. Give it time and they will adjust. Then you can do it for longer.

I have felt some energy leave me and head your way...I hope it helps.

Remember, this is a journey...one step at a time and xmas will be here before you know it.

peace, robert