A few questions about OBE, meditation, and the rope technique

[Tijopi11]

Every time I try to completely relax my body and not move in an attempt at eventually reaching an OOBE, I tend to think too much about things that can go wrong/about my physical body ruining my concentration. Thus, I remember things that I usually do unconsciously such as breathing, swallowing, and sniffling. My main problem is swallowing (my own saliva) so I'm wondering if it's OKAY to do this while trying to get into a trance, or is it impossible to do without busting my concentration and ruining all my efforts?
Also, on the rope technique, is it okay to also visualize the rope? I know it's meant to not visualize, and that you should concentrate on the strain of pulling yourself up the rope without actually tensing any of your muscles. But I'm having trouble imaging a rope without visualizing it. Does it work better without visualizing the rope? Will it work if you visualize the rope?

[CFTraveler]

Every time I try to completely relax my body and not move in an attempt at eventually reaching an OOBE, I tend to think too much about things that can go wrong/about my physical body ruining my concentration. You shouldn't think of your body at all, especially not thinking of moving or not moving. That's why Robert has taught so many forms of relaxation, breathwork and trancework- so that you get to the right state without thinking, but at the same time without thinking about thinking- instead, doing something else instead of thinking thought words.

Thus, I remember things that I usually do unconsciously such as breathing, swallowing, and sniffling. My main problem is swallowing (my own saliva) so I'm wondering if it's OKAY to do this while trying to get into a trance, or is it impossible to do without busting my concentration and ruining all my efforts? Of course it's ok to swallow, it has nothing to do with 'not moving'. You can breathe, swallow, and scratch an itch if you need to. It's only at the end of the trancework, when you start to dissociate from any body sensation that you should try to keep your concentration on the exit technique (or trance technique, or energy body loosening technique, or whatever you're doing.

Also, on the rope technique, is it okay to also visualize the rope? I know it's meant to not visualize, and that you should concentrate on the strain of pulling yourself up the rope without actually tensing any of your muscles. But I'm having trouble imaging a rope without visualizing it. Does it work better without visualizing the rope? Will it work if you visualize the rope? If you need to visualize it then do it. But to that visualization, make sure you add the feeling of moving it, the texture of holding it, because that is the secret to using it successfully.

[Tijopi11]

You shouldn't think of your body at all, especially not thinking of moving or not moving. That's why Robert has taught so many forms of relaxation, breathwork and trancework- so that you get to the right state without thinking, but at the same time without thinking about thinking- instead, doing something else instead of thinking thought words.

Oh, that makes so much more sense! I keep thinking the first step is to make sure the body is completely relaxed before you move on to anything else. I know that you ARE supposed to completely relax, but I keep trying to check and recheck to make sure i'm not tensed whatsoever. (I think my biggest problem is trying to do everything very strictly, manually, by the book. Instead of letting things happen, I think "okay, step 1, now onto step 2, i cant move onto step 3 because step 2 isn't perfect enough...")


Of course it's ok to swallow, it has nothing to do with 'not moving'. You can breathe, swallow, and scratch an itch if you need to. It's only at the end of the trancework, when you start to dissociate from any body sensation that you should try to keep your concentration on the exit technique (or trance technique, or energy body loosening technique, or whatever you're doing.


Okay, that's INSANELY helpful! My biggest stumper these past weeks has been my absolute worry and stressfulness over my inability to remain COMPLETELY statue-still. Every time I have to do something, I feel like it's ALL ruined and I have to start from scratch. This knowledge will definitely help me tonight.


If you need to visualize it then do it. But to that visualization, make sure you add the feeling of moving it, the texture of holding it, because that is the secret to using it successfully.

I can really tell that the key to success is feeling it, not visualizing it. When I 'feel' the rope, I feel much dizzier and more disconnected from the real world (I think it's because it takes a lot of concentration.)

Thankyou for your help!