influence on the physical plane

[TimeTravel]

I can wit AP influence on the physical plane, move a pen back and forth ?

[CFTraveler]

Some say yes, some say no, I say maybe. Some have reported it, but unless I can do it, I can't know if it's possible. I don't think it is in the way you describe, because the laws of physics are different in the astral than they are in the physical.

[ButterflyWoman]

Have never tried, and therefore can't say one way or the other. I find it somewhat unlikely, given the nature of material reality (which is pretty solid) and the much more fluid, esoteric, dreamlike nature of astral reality. You would have to have an extremely fluid perspective on material reality, I suspect.

[MooSaysTheCat]

I also have never done it. But I believe that if you believe you can do it , then it is possible. I mean people levitate when meditating all the time (or so I have heard) so I don't see why you could not move a pen.


PS. Wait a second I missed a part of you're question. What does the "AP" stand for?

[TimeTravel]

AP = Astral Projection

[Sinera]

Some people do "etheric projections" which is closer to the physical. They claim to be able to produce telekinetics and "raps" (that means knocks here, not the speech in hip hop music :mrgreen:).

Sylvan Muldoon reports on it (he is a classic author on AP/OBE) a lot in his book "Projection of the Astral Body" from 1929. In another forum I had an interesting discussion with another user who did this regularly. He claimed to be able to do the raps and also move things and do validations by this. Another one also writes about it (todd and Szaxx at the Astralpulse).

I quote from all three on my website collection (http://da-lai.lima-city.de/OBE/index.html) on this topic, you can read it there directly if you scroll down:


Another way to prove the veracity of OBEs to oneself is to produce 'raps' or any form of telekinesis in one's own room while in sleep paralysis. This has been accomplished amongst others by Sylvan Muldoon, who wrote about it in his book "The Projection Of The Astral Body". Today, many assume it is the Etheric (1st) Body instead which only emanates the second (Astral) body later on. The Etheric body itself cannot move far from the physical body, but it can do so for a few metres and produce these effects.

Sylvan Muldoon producing 'raps' and telekinesis (search for 'raps' in that book) (http://books.google.de/books?id=Z3hRU7_mCVEC&printsec=frontcover&hl=de&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=raps&f=false)
"In fact I have produced "raps" myself while in this state. I recall very distinctly waking one morning, and finding myself minus my motivity! I reasoned within myself thus: If my motivity is extending outside my body, and I am now conscious, why cannot I will that rap be produced? And I did will with determination that a rap should come on the dresser. The rap was produced! (...) As to moving objects when the astral body itself is projected on the end of the line of force, under certain conditions this can be done, and we shall discuss this later. For the moment, the point I wish to emphasize is this: Motivity can "shift" across the astral body, just as sensitivity can."

Other forum users of the Astral Pulse forum on raps and telekinetic effects:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_metaphysics/regeneration_is_it_possible-t5040.0.html;msg298127#msg298127
"[T]elekinesis can be done. If you are proficient at projection then try this.
First awakening seconds still not physically aware, create a bond (silver cord) from yourself to say handles on a cabinet. Make sure it is not broken in its length. It should find its own way to the location but it is somewhat erratic in shape. Intend the end of this bond from you to enlarge at the end and with it flap the handles upward, a pattern of raps is ideal. It has a feel to it and you know it's there, also the given purpose you intend it to perform. Then awaken yourself as fast as you can and sit up listening. Within a few seconds the pattern of raps appears and you may jump out of your skin. It needs to be controlled carefully as any fear and things like very heavy cupboards drag themselves around devastating the flooring."

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/is_obe_been_proved_scientifically-t37667.0.html;msg308883#msg308883
"I still don't understand why people try to prove OBE's by using their visual sense in the rtz (example card tricks, 5 digit numbers, etc.)
I have moved objects during etheric projections. This is my recommend way to prove OBE's and the rtz are real. If you have difficulties in figuring out how to move objects, you can practice on a psi or chi wheel. There are some good youtube videos showing how. Once you get good on the psi or chi wheel, then you can start practicing moving objects during etheric projections.
In my opinion, etheric projections are about energy. Relying on the visual sense may lead to reality fluctuations. I have moved objects under different etheric states. I'll give one example of me actually moving an object from each etheric state.
1) One etheric state is by expanding your etheric body while it is still in the physical body. This would be an etheric ballooning expansion which makes contact with an object to move it. This has to be done relatively close to the physical body, since the etheric body is technically still attached to the physical body, but it has expanded to make contact with the object. The most amazing example of this etheric state is when I was laying in bed on my back and knocked a curtain down off its rail. This scared me a lot, until I realized what I did. I inspected the curtain afterwards to make sure it was a valid experiment. The curtain came down at the exact same moment I willed my etheric energy towards it.
2) The second etheric state is by actually separating your etheric body from your physical body and moving your etheric body to the object. There is no etheric ballooning effect with this type since there is an actual separation of the etheric body from the physical body. The most amazing example of this etheric state is when I knocked the toilet bowl cleaner handle apparatus off my shower wall frame. I put it here to allow it to dry before I would store it away. This one I had to pull in etheric matter from the environment to make my separated etheric body denser to allow myself to be able to knock it down. After I knocked it down, I went straight back to my body to confirm this experience was successful."

Interesting stuff for sure. I'd love to do it. So far I've been able to produce electrokinetics with a computer screen / TV - but not telekinetics. I've heard "raps" on walls too sometimes but am not sure if they were really 'physical' when I woke up then or just sth from the in-between state. I might experiment with it one day again, but have other 'projects' at the moment.

[CFTraveler]

Robert calls it 'realtime' projection instead of 'etheric', just for denominative purposes. With a few technical differences.