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buzzcock
30th January 2016, 10:28 PM
My parents always encouraged me to be shy and retiring, and never demonstrated an example of how to make friends, but were always angry at me for being shy and retiring and not having enough friends. For example my dad has never had many male friends or played sports, he just likes watching tv and doing hobbies alone, yet he's always been angry at me for not making friends easily or being into sport. When he can't teach how to do those things. And they've always punished me and my siblings for showing any behavior of being outgoing or outspoken, yet they've always been jealous of other parents kids who are outgoing and outspoken and complained that we're not like them. And they can't see the parents they're jealous of with confident kids created such a different family environment. They just think its us being nasty and unfriendly to spite them. I am adult now, it just seems so unfair looking back. Seems more unfair now because at the time I believed them and blamed myself more.

WhiteMonkey
31st January 2016, 07:28 AM
The only thing you can do is to acept it. You wouldnt be here if not for all the things happened in your life.

Of course parents make a huge impact on as but they just mean it good cause they dont know any better at that time

ButterflyWoman
31st January 2016, 09:42 AM
I haven't seen my parents in over twenty years, and I've had lots of therapy and soul-searching and a complete breakdown, plus lots of other stuff, since that time, and yet, even now, certain things will remind me of my parents (mostly my idiot mother) and it can irritate me. I don't get super furious any more, but I still sometimes get a little ouchy. Scars are like that.

Basically, you need to acknowledge your anger, and then -- this is the hard part -- let it go. You don't have to make excuses for them (like saying it's all right, especially if it is NOT all right) or anything like that, but you need to own your anger and then release it. It takes some practice, but it's well worth it.

This holds true for all kinds of emotions, by the way, not just anger. I had to process oceans of rage, but also there was shame, humiliation, sorrow, and a bunch of other stuff. Took a long time. Then it took a while to adjust to living without all that stuff (that sounds weird, but it still happens).

Own it, release it. Own it, release it. That's the process. Be prepared for the potential of a lot of pain, but that, too, can be owned and released...

:heart:


Of course parents make a huge impact on as but they just mean it good cause they dont know any better at that time
While this is true, I never found it helpful. I still don't. My parents didn't even make the effort to learn better. They were both self-centered and damaged and they still are. There hasn't been any improvement, they haven't changed at all, nor grown, nor anything else. Telling me that they "meant well" (even when they didn't, and believe me, my parents could both be incredibly mean-spirited, especially my father) generally just pissed me off more than anything else. It always made me feel like someone was telling me I should accept my parents' bad behaviour as being somehow okay because they were self-centered idiots.

And, again, that's completely true, they were and are self-centered idiots, but knowing that doesn't really help, not even now. It has made it easier for me to come to terms with why they did the stuff they did, but it has never made me feel any more kindly toward them, nor made my pain any less.

buzzcock
31st January 2016, 12:21 PM
Thank you for your writings, I appreciate it. Yes, I have a lot of childhood issues to own and release. Ive just got such missing confidence and drive compared to my peers, such a missing feel of self belief and right to speak up. I feel so incapable of any skills or opinions sometimes. I've tried years of self hypnosis, counseling, self help books. I wonder if a talk with someone like Sigmund Freud would help me.

buzzcock
31st January 2016, 12:26 PM
And also, someone always pipes in with that 'you know parents mean well, even if they make mistakes', but people who say that don't get it. There's a difference between parents who try their best imperfectly and ones who screw up badly. I remember my mum ranting after reading 'child called it' saying 'anyone could write crap like this about their mum! I could and you could!'

IA56
31st January 2016, 03:49 PM
And also, someone always pipes in with that 'you know parents mean well, even if they make mistakes', but people who say that don't get it. There's a difference between parents who try their best imperfectly and ones who screw up badly. I remember my mum ranting after reading 'child called it' saying 'anyone could write crap like this about their mum! I could and you could!'

Dear buzzcock,

Parents who come from ignorent parents are passing this to their Children, and this goes round and round until someone like you cut the chain of this bad parenting....

It is not easy to make Changes even you want them because it takes all you got to as BW said by own it and release it....the only solution I can see and have experienced is to be so calm when meeting my parents what ever they say I do not let that affected me at all, then when I go home I will cry my eyes out...but I am always training in self control and I have seen that it get better and
better for every round I go with them.....I can calmly say my oppinion but as they have never respected my sayings so I know if I say anything they will cut me short emeditately....as Always...
When I did understand I will never win over my parents and that I can not change them...I can only change my own feelings and mind how I let them affected me...

Now my father has dementia and I canīt anymore speak as he was healthier....My mother has cancer and have not so long time left so I have burried my tryings to make her understand, she does understand but as she has not worked out her own parents effects out of her she can not become that self aware, there is no time in this lifetime for her....but I have got enough time to work my
pain out what has to do with my parents and I can today let them say what ever they want, I do deeply understand them, and I mean this...I understand and I feel their pain and agony, I do not want them to cross over with bad feelings so I have said to both of my parents that I have forgiven them and I hope they can forgive me for what I have put them through by trying to make them see from my perspective...it has not bean easy on them I can tell.

So dearest buzzcock....own and release and forgive, make the change in you and give that love and appreaciation to yourself what you never got from your parents....

You will succeed eventally if you really want to get release from this agony you feel.

Love
ia

buzzcock
31st January 2016, 04:03 PM
Thanks a lot, but sadly I didn't break the chain yet. I'm an angry divorcee. I still have a lot of hope tho and am improving a lot in putting family first.

IA56
31st January 2016, 04:21 PM
Thanks a lot, but sadly I didn't break the chain yet. I'm an angry divorcee. I still have a lot of hope tho and am improving a lot in putting family first.

Well, what is for you to break the chain??
You are a angry divorcee...well that is totally different....now you have it in 2 steps....do you mean that your divorse is because of your parents and your upbringing??

Love
ia

ButterflyWoman
31st January 2016, 05:27 PM
I've tried years of self hypnosis, counseling, self help books. I wonder if a talk with someone like Sigmund Freud would help me.
When it happens, it'll happen, and it could well be a floodgate. For me, what triggered it all was the death of my grandmother. She was quite old, and had been unwell for a long time, but it still completely wrecked me. I was sitting on the floor sobbing that the only person who had ever loved me was gone, and I didn't even know that was how I felt...

Prior to that, I'd done counselling off and on for... I don't know. Years. Never helped, because I was always holding back, or holding on, or whatever. So don't despair that nothing's worked so far. I'm sure that's the case, but if you're prepared to really deal with it all and get over yourself (and I say that kindly, and in a metaphysical sense, not in a mean way ;)), it'll happen.

Freud, by the way, would probably just want to talk about your toilet training and your penis. He was kind of weird that way. ;) I'd go with Jung, personally. :D


And also, someone always pipes in with that 'you know parents mean well, even if they make mistakes', but people who say that don't get it. There's a difference between parents who try their best imperfectly and ones who screw up badly.
The reason I stopped talking to my parents was not because of what they did or didn't do when I was a child. It was because they were completely unwilling to own up to any of it, and they were totally unable (or unwilling) to make any effort to change. They were still blaming it all on me, all my fault, all my doing, I was a "bad seed", I was "born different", I was born with "bad karma" (that came later, but it's one of the excuses my mother used to justify the situation). My mother was mentally ill most of my life, and I get that, I really, truly do, and I can and do forgive it, but I could no longer tolerate my parents' utter refusal to change or grow or heal. My father isn't mentally ill, he's just a narcissistic bully, but even bullies can reform; he never wanted to do that because it would mean taking responsibility for something, and he's too much of a coward to do that.

Also remember that forgiveness is not the same as reconciliation, and forgiveness is for YOU, not for them. You get to a point where you just don't want to carry their debt against you any more, so you strike it off the books and take the loss and get on with things. Took me a really long time to learn that. People always think forgiveness is about being nice, or about being kind, or about, I don't know, some kind of goodness, but it really isn't. Forgiveness is about healing yourself. If the other party feels relieved in the bargain, well, good for them, but it's not about them. It's about you.

buzzcock
31st January 2016, 06:25 PM
Thanks All. Its just bleh. My parents were obsessed with making us meek and shy, in the name of politeness and being civilized, obsessed with us not answering back or having our opinions. Yet they also wanted us to be high career achievers never thinking that world requires a little of the confidence/drive they obsessively knocked out of us. I think my mum had problems being meek so she saw being able to dominate kids as her life challenge. Bleh, I dunno. My relationship was a repeat of it all. I mean, thanks for all the thoughts everyone.

IA56
31st January 2016, 07:01 PM
Thanks All. Its just bleh. My parents were obsessed with making us meek and shy, in the name of politeness and being civilized, obsessed with us not answering back or having our opinions. Yet they also wanted us to be high career achievers never thinking that world requires a little of the confidence/drive they obsessively knocked out of us. I think my mum had problems being meek so she saw being able to dominate kids as her life challenge. Bleh, I dunno. My relationship was a repeat of it all. I mean, thanks for all the thoughts everyone.

Yes you are totally right, but you did not answere how you think you can cut the chains, you see all total clearly, as you say that your relationship was a repeat of it all, yes of course it is...and now when you see it clearly you can do all the changes you desire and become as comfident you want, and not repeat your parents bias..

You have already won....

Love
ia

fantasticbasket
17th July 2016, 05:26 PM
My parents always encouraged me to be shy and retiring, and never demonstrated an example of how to make friends, but were always angry at me for being shy and retiring and not having enough friends. For example my dad has never had many male friends or played sports, he just likes watching tv and doing hobbies alone, yet he's always been angry at me for not making friends easily or being into sport. When he can't teach how to do those things. And they've always punished me and my siblings for showing any behavior of being outgoing or outspoken, yet they've always been jealous of other parents kids who are outgoing and outspoken and complained that we're not like them. And they can't see the parents they're jealous of with confident kids created such a different family environment. They just think its us being nasty and unfriendly to spite them. I am adult now, it just seems so unfair looking back. Seems more unfair now because at the time I believed them and blamed myself more.

Learn from this experience, and resolve to create the right environment for your children

ButterflyWoman
17th July 2016, 11:37 PM
Missed this when you posted it the first time, somehow.


My parents were obsessed with making us meek and shy, in the name of politeness and being civilized, obsessed with us not answering back or having our opinions.
My mother was like that, but I was so strong-willed and naturally defiant that I would never, ever conform, and that pissed her off beyond measure, and it's why she decided I was basically born bad. I did learn how to keep quiet, and I eventually learned how to conform to social expectations, but I still only do those things when I feel like, and to make other people comfortable. In my mother's damaged mind, conforming was a kind of way to avoid getting hurt, so when I refused to conform (because I couldn't), she panicked.

I understand all this stuff now, and that's good, and I have pretty much completely forgiven my mother, but it still doesn't make me want to talk to her at all. She's got dementia now, anyway, so there would be no point. She apparently wavers between thinking I'm a little girl and thinking I still live thirty miles from her house, which I'm actually 52 and have lived on the opposite side of the planet for some seventeen years, so reconciliation at this point would be fruitless.

[NOTE: What follows is entirely personal and quite ranty. I've had some issues coming up and this is how I'm going to deal with them. I'm owning them, I'm writing them down, and I'm releasing them into the universe. Feel free to skip reading this. I just want and need to do this and I'm doing it here because it may, eventually, possibly, reach someone for whom it might have meaning and provide an ah-hah moment of some sort. It may or may not be anyone who has participated in this thread, or even anyone who is part of this forum. Could be a complete stranger Googling something. Who knows. Maybe it's nobody. I'm fine with that. :) ]

I was absolutely livid when I found out about her dementia, by the way. It meant she was never, ever going to have to wake up to herself and to the things she said/did. She gets to live in her self-constructed world of inconsistent nonsense forever, and never own up to anything. Took me some years to get over that. Still annoys me a little, to be honest. I had to have a complete breakdown and lose everything to the point of complete ego-death and the realisation that "I" don't exist (not as most people understand "existence" anyway), and she just gets to mess me up and skate through life in a fantasy world, tra la la. It can be argued that my examined life is a more fulfilling life, and I can get behind that sentiment, but I actually think the pain I've endured has been excessive. My life has been as full-on angst-pain-agonising as I could have tolerated (seriously, when I look at my life I can see that if there was even ONE MORE thing, I would never have survived, and I'm pretty sure that in most variations of reality, I'm long dead or FUBAR), and I feel sometimes like I only barely survived, and yet she, the inflictor of much of that pain, gets to just close her eyes, put her fingers in her ears and go, "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LA LA LA I'M PERFECTLY FINE". *sigh*


Again, I'm writing this down now because I've had some stuff come up recently, and I want to release it. That's what I'm doing. I'm owning it, writing it down, sending it into the universe, and letting it dissolve, because I can use the energy I've invested in it, and it's important to let stuff go. I now consider this released. May I be free of it, and the energy I invested in it be used for something productive. So be it.

Timothy
18th July 2016, 01:22 AM
1298

A Caterpillar must move fore-ward...going to it's end, a Butterfly al-ways coming...can never go back. Consume vs Expel

Give It Away - http://youtu.be/Fs8llXHnANA

1299

Hunger nn Thirst

ButterflyWoman
18th July 2016, 02:54 AM
Give It Away - http://youtu.be/Fs8llXHnANA
Thanks. Now I'll have THAT in my head all day. ;)

Seriously, I appreciate the reply.

CFTraveler
18th July 2016, 08:16 PM
So that's where that came from.

ButterflyWoman
19th July 2016, 07:29 AM
So that's where that came from.

:lol: Yeah, especially after the 18th century hymn, right? :D My brain is a weird place sometimes. ;)

Seeuzin
14th August 2016, 02:50 PM
I was absolutely livid when I found out about her dementia, by the way. It meant she was never, ever going to have to wake up to herself and to the things she said/did. She gets to live in her self-constructed world of inconsistent nonsense forever, and never own up to anything. Took me some years to get over that. Still annoys me a little, to be honest. I had to have a complete breakdown and lose everything to the point of complete ego-death and the realisation that "I" don't exist (not as most people understand "existence" anyway), and she just gets to mess me up and skate through life in a fantasy world, tra la la. It can be argued that my examined life is a more fulfilling life, and I can get behind that sentiment, but I actually think the pain I've endured has been excessive. My life has been as full-on angst-pain-agonising as I could have tolerated (seriously, when I look at my life I can see that if there was even ONE MORE thing, I would never have survived, and I'm pretty sure that in most variations of reality, I'm long dead or FUBAR), and I feel sometimes like I only barely survived, and yet she, the inflictor of much of that pain, gets to just close her eyes, put her fingers in her ears and go, "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LA LA LA I'M PERFECTLY FINE". *sigh*


Again, I'm writing this down now because I've had some stuff come up recently, and I want to release it. That's what I'm doing. I'm owning it, writing it down, sending it into the universe, and letting it dissolve, because I can use the energy I've invested in it, and it's important to let stuff go. I now consider this released. May I be free of it, and the energy I invested in it be used for something productive. So be it.

BW, you have helped me.

ButterflyWoman
14th August 2016, 03:30 PM
BW, you have helped me.
I'm glad. :heart: