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27th August 2006, 05:11 PM
Interesting article on the subject:

http://www.shamans-cave.com/Soul_Loss.html

!CCDMN!
2nd September 2006, 10:05 AM
Thank you for posting the link. The theory is very interesting, I think that I may be having such problem and I want to try the Soul Retrieval technique, maybe it will make me feel at least a bit less "incomplete" and make life more enjoyable. The problem is that I have to re-learn AP to do this.
Do you know anyone who did Soul Retrieval with success?

Pilar
9th September 2006, 07:31 AM
I have been doing soul retrieval on my own behalf for over 8 years now. I worked with a shaman for that time as well who supported me during the practice. In my experience, locating, connecting with, and then processing/integrating a soul fragment can take anywhere from months to years. In every case, it has required me reexperiencing a situation similar to the initial trauma. Depending on the trauma that caused the initial fragmentation, this can be extremely difficult to go through. This may be my personal path, not what everyone who undertakes soul retrieval will experience.

Personally, I can't imagine a healer doing a 'session' and having this process complete in a few hours, or even a few weeks. I would be wary of people who claim to be able to do this for you. It is really important that you are well taken care of during such a process. The re-integration of a fragment can be incredibly traumatic, especially if I have to remember things I have lived without knowledge of for many years. It also takes a long time to 'grow up' the parts that were severed once they return. This aspect can also be really fun. Many people say they would love to have a chance to 'be a child again' only with the awareness/consciousness they have now as an adult. I have had the opportunities to do this. It is a very interesting healing path.

The initial period of re-integration can be extremely difficult, but it is very rewarding. Before I embarked upon the process, I was 'not home'. I felt like I was looking out my eyes from the end of a very long hallway. I often had sensations of 'falling into' my body. Lots of trouble with OBEs/sleep disturbances, and alot of substance abuse. Until I was 25, I lived in a state of almost total amnesia. I recall walking downtown and catching a glimpse of my reflection in a mall mirror and not recognizing myself. I began my healing journey shortly after that.

After integrating many parts, aged 14 - infant, I am very much 'at home.' Interesting note--In this process, I go backwards. I began with the most recent traumas and have been descending toward the earlier ages. Not sure if everyone experiences that. Over the past 2 years in particular, I can observe current life situations manifesting as karma-repeats of past situations, and I am able to reconnect with parts of myself that were lost, and integrate them, and offer them safety by making new choices. It is a difficult path because it gets very weird at times, but it is extremely liberating. If this is your path, embrace it fully! You have been given an unbelievable opportunity to heal yourself in this lifetime! I personally consider it a gift of great magnitude.

wstein
9th September 2006, 07:47 AM
Soul retrieval is a very powerful technique of great benefit when successful.

On a personal note: I often feel like the fragment (not the main person) and would like to be reunited with my greater self. If you know anyone doing this work, let me know.

Do others feel like the lost fragment rather than the main part?

faerylight
9th September 2006, 08:59 AM
Hi Pilar,

I too found the process extremely difficult. There may have been other factors involved that were hindering this, so not really sure why it was so hard. I do know that I would get flooded with memories of a particular time and found it extremely difficult to cope with. I actually went back on anti-depressants after being off of them for 3 years. I would feel drowned out and overwhelmed by the returning fragment, like the core self was too weak to handle all that negativity, if that makes any sense. That's how it felt, don't know if that's what was happening.

My question is this: can you tell me more about how you located, worked with and reintegrated your fragments? I was working with someone too, but, in light of certain factors, one being that the process was very hard on me, halted the reintegration at a little over half done.

I want to understand more about what I can do to make this process bearable and specifically, how you connected with and processed/integrated your fragments. For some reason, I just can't seem to understand this in a practical sense. I would just get carried away with emotions and relive the traumatic event. I actually would then throw up blocks to reintegrating because it was so hard.

Anything you can share would be great. :)

faerylight
9th September 2006, 09:03 AM
Do others feel like the lost fragment rather than the main part?

Sometimes yes. I can relate to this.

sash
9th September 2006, 11:04 AM
I can relate too. I think that is normal. I have not known someone who feels like the 'main part'. There is some awareness of a main part, but it is just in that place out that we don't know how to reach.
Perhaps not though, I cannot speak for what other people experience, I might just be v. fragmented.
Although I find that people with a good sense of self do not know themselves after talking to me for 2 minutes. But then again, is there that 'place/home' we can go back to at the end of the day, or is there always a main essence missing lingering in the background?
Apologies if this post is not pertinent to the subject matter.

Pilar
9th September 2006, 08:23 PM
Hi Pilar,

I too found the process extremely difficult. There may have been other factors involved that were hindering this, so not really sure why it was so hard.

Hi scymi,

Well, first I would like to say that I understand what you are speaking about, and this is very difficult work you are doing. It has been a lonely path for me and I have had to figure most of it out on my own without much support. So if you ever want to ask me questions, or just have someone validate your experiences by listening to you, you may write me about this process anytime. I will share anything I can about my own process that might help you along on yours.

Disclaimer to those reading this other than scymi: This is going to be a very long answer, because I want to take my time and respond fully to everything she's said. And a warning that for those who are not familiar with this work, this is going to sound very weird. So, if you don't want to read it, that's okay, but please refrain from 'dissing' it in here. Thanks!


I do know that I would get flooded with memories of a particular time and found it extremely difficult to cope with.

Yes, I have also had this experience. I would refer to this part of the process as 'initial contact', the beginning of processing a fragment. It is the most difficult and painful. You have just connected with a part of your ego that had split off in the past. Imagine, this part has been separated from the rest of you and stuck in a lost place, a spirit or astral realm, if you will, a place of isolation. It does not know anything of you or your current state, your growth since that time, your experiences, nothing. It has been in a state of limbo like a ghost, reliving its torment over and over without contact, growth, movement, or assistance. It may have even been tormented by other entities because of this, like the negative beings people are talking about on these forums. So imagine that when you connect with this fragment, it is your psyche only up until the moment of trauma when the split occurred.

The first thing that is going to happen is that you are going to be flooded with information from this fragment--it's going to unload on you all the suffering it has been going through in a big jumble: grief over being alone, confusion about what has happened since in your life that it has not been privy to, anger/pain/sadness/loss/despair over the trauma and the split itself, and it may bring with it the negative beings that have been harassing it while it's been in a separate dimension.

Okay! That's alot of very heavy stuff! So it is quite natural, completely normal for you to feel overwhelmed and freaked when this happens. It IS a flood of negativity into your life.

The good news is that this is the hardest part, and it will pass, and you are definitely strong enough to do this work, and it does get easier each time you do it, because you begin to recognize a pattern to the process and you collect more and more tools to cope, from spiritual healing practices to friends to great books on the shelf.


I actually went back on anti-depressants after being off of them for 3 years. I would feel drowned out and overwhelmed by the returning fragment, like the core self was too weak to handle all that negativity, if that makes any sense. That's how it felt, don't know if that's what was happening.

You are right-on there. That is exactly what was happening. There is no shame in taking anti-depressants when you feel pushed to the point that you cannot function or cope. It is really important to retain a core self during this work, and to protect it fiercely. Remember: the goal here is healing, not psychosis. The most important advice I have received from healers of all kinds, from science-type western psychotherapists to first-nation shamans to new age healers is: set boundaries for the returning fragment and the material it wants to present to you. You do not help yourself or the fragment if you are so destabilized that you can't take care of your basic needs or maintain a healthy balance within yourself. Yes, you are going to be pushed to your limits. But you are in control of where those limits are set.

Me, I'm a bit of an overachiever. I've often allowed myself to be pushed off into complete psychosis where I'm on the brink of suicide in order to do this work. That really isn't necessary, and it isn't a very good place for anyone to be in. As I got better at it, and more familiar with the process, I've been able to set aside time to do the work, and time to take a break.

For example, last year I went off to do a very challenging remote experience. I was flown in to an island way out in the middle of the ocean inhabited only by a few wildlife biologists and about a million birds. :D I was there for 3 months and there was no way off before then, short of a near-death experience. :) so...imagine my dismay when partway through the trip, a soul-fragment showed up for re-integration! Triggered by a minor event in the present, which figuratively resembled a trauma during my childhood, I was suddenly confronted with a childhood part of myself that was hysterical and very confused.

I have personally found that it is really important for me to do this work alone, because it requires intense focus and a great deal of self-parenting skill. I was in intimate living conditions with a team of scientists who were definitely not open to the kinds of things I was experienging. I would have been labeled a manic-depressive, or a schizophrenic, or multiple-personality disorder or something and heavily medicated and shipped off with a bad record!! :) So I set some limits on what work I was able to do there and what was going to have to wait until I was in a safer circumstance back at home.


My question is this: can you tell me more about how you located, worked with and reintegrated your fragments? I was working with someone too, but, in light of certain factors, one being that the process was very hard on me, halted the reintegration at a little over half done.

I want to understand more about what I can do to make this process bearable and specifically, how you connected with and processed/integrated your fragments. For some reason, I just can't seem to understand this in a practical sense. I would just get carried away with emotions and relive the traumatic event. I actually would then throw up blocks to reintegrating because it was so hard.

Anything you can share would be great. :)

Absolutely, I can share what I have learned so far about the process, which after going through it many many times, I can say is consistent and follows a logical and orderly pattern. This may encourage you! I'll say it twice--THERE IS A CONSISTENT, LOGICAL AND ORDERLY PATTERN TO THIS PROCESS!!! Yay! That is very good news, because a structure is a good thing to hold onto when the ego/psyche is going through a process of totally breaking down and then rebuilding itself into something different (more integrated!) than it was before.

The process is this: trigger, connection, download, breakdown, process
(emotional release, understanding/re-contextualization), new self.

I'll explain each piece:

Trigger: events/people in the present resemble an element of a past trauma

Connection: the trigger connects you with your lost fragment and you recognize this because your current state of awareness radically changes

Download: the emotional/mental content of the fragment floods your current awareness, making your current state of consciousness no longer sustainable (ie: point of accept or denial, either work is going to be done, or the fragment is pushed away in order to retain the current state of consciousness)

Breakdown: the current ego/psyche 'sense of self' collapses. "I am not who I thought I was"

Process: Fragment and present self develop a relationship, get to know each other, exchange realities, come to new conclusions, feel loss, sadness, anger, make choices in present based on new information, release emotion that was caught in stasis in the past/fragment. Two main things that have to happen to move forward: emotion must be recognized, felt fully, and released fully. Past events must be reviewed in the context of the current understanding of the mature self and both views must change (the way the child saw it & the way the present self was living in denial of the fragment).

New self: The psyche is formed anew. Nothing was truly lost. A new psyche emerges which contains the memory of the old experience relieved of its heavy emotional content, the child self feels validated, loved and settles into its natural place within the background of the psyche, the adult self reemerges with a new understanding of its own history and is able to consciously break karmic patterns by being free now to make new decisions that were not previously possible.

Am I overloading you yet? I will end soon.

While trigger/connection/download/breakdown are the most painful and scary, they are actually over fairly quickly when one does not fight the process. Knowing there is a process can help you not fear what is happening and simply ride through it until its natural completion. Processing is unbelievably rewarding and takes years, decades off your life and loads off your back. You can literally feel the darkness leaving you. And New self is accompanied by eruptions of joy and lightness of being you never even knew were possible because they were simply outside of your experience. It is so, so totally worth it!!!!!!

A key I have found in coping and doing the processing work is...Fragments often happen during childhood, which makes them....children! So it is helpful to envision them this way and keep them separate from you to some degree throughout the processing. This helps you retain a sense of a 'core' or 'calm center' which is mature and able to handle it all. When you are flooded with new emotion/materal, it is important to address the fragment as you would a child--retain authority, be loving and reasonable, explain things well, set limits on behavior, teach them lots and lots! about good timing and when it is appropriate to talk about the trauma and when it isn't a good time and we will come back to this later this evening, and who it is safe to share intimate details with and who it is not. Etc. They are children--they need protection, safety, love, education and to be listened to and fully heard.

In my personal practice, over many years of doing this work, I have developed my own methods for processing. I prefer to work alone so that I can provide my fragments with safety, because they do not trust strange counsellors/healers etc. So I have become a counsellor and healer for myself, and I only consult with others as the core part, and keep the fragment part private until the integration is complete.

So, in that instance on the island, for example, I simply went for a long walk where I could talk out loud undisturbed, and addressed the fragment the way I personally speak to my parts when they first show up: first, I tell them who I am. I explain what year it is, how old I am. I explain that while they have been stuck in their experience, I have moved forward and had many different experiences, and that we are no longer in that situation that they remember: in fact, far from it. Safe now, and there is plenty of time to do the work of processing, talking, sharing, and no need for the intensity of urgent & complete download.

Then I take my time, journal twice a day, take long walks in nature, do alot of prayer and ritual, buddhist meditation to center and connect daily with a sense of peace and calm and stability, reduce interaction with people, especially loud places/crowds/too much sensory stimulation, I treat myself like a person who needs a lot of care to recover from a serious illness. I eat well, sleep well, surround myself with healing books and incense. I allow myself to cry alot without any judgment. I allow myself to fully feel the grief and loss that occurred. Realize what actually happened: you were in a situation that was so completely overwhelming and life- and psyche-threatening that in order to survive, a part of you had to leave and take some of the burden of the event and its emotional content in order for the rest of you to move on. What an incredible sacrifice this part of you made, what it must have been through to live with only that burden for all this time, and how fortunate you have been to be given the gift of survival, to grow up and beyond that experience and to have come to a place where you are so strong and wise and wonderful that you are able to now accept this old lost part back.

It is a gift. An incredible gift of life and of healing. Embrace it and love yourself so much through it because you are a magnificent being who has survived something no-one else can truly understand.

I wish you every blessing on your journey and all the joy that comes from bringing your self back together--all the strength and wonder and energy that comes with that.

Love and light,
Pilar

faerylight
9th September 2006, 09:26 PM
Incredible. I can absolutely relate to so much you have said. I have had these crying fits - one wanted to come up at work and I said "Not now please, must wait until after work" and it did. Immediately after I left work, tears started streaming down my face, lol.

Thank you so very much, this puts the reintegration process into a context I can finally understand. Previous explanations were so darned abstract, I work better within a linear context, lol. I think you should counsel folks going through this. In fact, I have an idea I might mention to you via pm. :wink:

Again, I cannot tell you how much your post helps my understanding of this process. In fact, I think your post should be sticky-fied somewhere, this info is EXTREMELY helpful and right on target, imo. :)

Pilar
9th September 2006, 09:30 PM
Excellent. I am so glad to hear. :)
P

CFTraveler
9th September 2006, 09:33 PM
I just wanted to thank Scymi and Pilar for a fascinating and life-affirming thread.

Beekeeper
20th October 2006, 10:33 AM
Am I overloading you yet?

Heck, no, Pilar. This is fantastic. I've been through this process so many times and had no idea I was doing soul retrieval. It's amazing the things I've discovered about myself.

I'm with Scymi. You'd make an excellent counsellor.

gorillabait
20th October 2006, 03:38 PM
Pilar, can one induce the reconnection to the fragment? How would one go about doing this, or is it better done by an experienced third-party?

20th October 2006, 04:35 PM
Many spiritual hypnotherapists are trained in soul retrieval and soul fragment retrieval. Look in your local metaphysical magazine for hypnotherapist ads. Also, Transpersonal Psychologists are usually trained in fragment retrieval. Pilar is quite advanced and experienced to be able to do this work by herself. Most people need some help in dealing with the sometimes extreme emotions that can come up. One reason I believe so strongly in hypnotherapy is because what can take years in talk-type psychological therapy can very often be done in one or several sessions in hypnotherapy. This is because you by-pass all the emotional blocks put in place by the ego and go straight to the core of your sub-conscious. A lot of healing can be accomplished quickly on that level. I believe it's because we are working at a soul level and that a much greater understanding and knowledge comes into play when we tap into that.

Besides working on a human psychological level regarding fragment retrieval, there is a lot of this kind of work going on in the astral. Bruce Moen's books have a lot of information in them about retrieval's of other selves and fragments that are stuck in Robert Monroe's Focus level 23 and living, basically, nightmarish existences. He phases into the astral, going to Focus 23 and is guided to these "lost" souls and fragments. Trying to get their attention is one of the most difficult things to do, as they are so stuck in their pattern and misery. Once he is able to get their attention, he converses with them to help them understand what is happening. At the point that they become aware of that, spiritual guides can then take them on to Focus 27 (Reception Center, The Park) for healing. Often, they go to a type of astral recuperative hospital. They can be healed instantly, if their belief system allows for that. For those who can't accept instant healing, a scenario is created around them that is comforting and allows for them to heal at the rate they are comfortable with. Often a hospital setting, with human like healing equipment is astrally created for them.

Sometimes, Bruce Moen recognizes them as personalities, parallel existences, or fragments of himself. Other times, he is guided to help, but realizes those he is helping are not a part of himself. The interesting thing is that he wondered why spiritual guides were not able to get these tortured souls attention. It was explained to him that because they are still so close to the physical, and of such a dense vibration, that it is easier for a living human being who is traveling out of body in the astral to get their attention. The density/vibration of the spiritual guides is so much higher that they can't always get through. Interesting, huh?

Pilar
26th November 2006, 11:03 PM
Pilar, can one induce the reconnection to the fragment? How would one go about doing this, or is it better done by an experienced third-party?

In my experience, connection with the fragment occurs through triggers in your personal present. Something in the present occurs that triggers you to connect mentally/emotionally with a past event that was associated with the trauma that caused the split. In my experience, connections can't be forced. For many, including myself, talk-therapy and even hypno-therapy do not work because there are strong barriers in the psyche creating amnesia from the past event. There simply isn't any way to consciously or unconsciously connect with aspects of the psyche that are in any way related to PTSD, for example, because the traumas have never been through the regular brain processes which sort through and store information in either the conscious or subconscious. Non-processed events are held in the reptilian brain and cannot be accessed unless the 'door' to the reptilian brain is opened, and these openings occur beyond your control via triggers that stimluate the fight/flight response. EMDR is a technique used for processing PTSD events so that the brain can go through its natural processing cycles, but that is slightly off-topic.

Attempting to force a connection can cause a severe backlash from the PTSD/amnesiac psyche. Shamans can travel to locate a fragment for you to instigate the reconnection work, but this can be extremely shocking if you are not ready for it. In my experience, the fragment will locate you, hang around you, and desire re-connection with you as part of a natural process as you continue to advance in your spiritual work. My advice: never force this work. Focus on your spiritual evolution, and the fragments will come back to you one at a time as they are ready and you are able to handle it.

As a warning, reconnection with a fragment causes a mental breakdown, that is, your current psyche must breakdown in order to accept the fragment and re-merging is a process of breaking down, integrating and building up the ego again. Forcing can cause severe instability that looks like a nervous breakdown or even schizophrenia. So please do this work wisely, surrounded by support and healing. And make sure you find a healer who can actually do this work alongside you--this is high-level work. Some healers/therapists think they know what they are doing in this regard, and actually have no clue. Don't work with someone unless they have actually been through this process themselves or have been through it many times with many clients. First Nation shamans are the best to trust for this work. They have been working in the astral for generations, and understand the process on a level few westerners do.

Best wishes,
Pilar

9th December 2006, 04:50 AM
Hi Pilar :)

Did you have any fragments that were mostly anger? If so, how did you deal with it?

Pilar
18th December 2006, 11:19 PM
Hello Scymitar,


Did you have any fragments that were mostly anger?

Yes, I think this is common and perfectly normal. It appears that emotions are fragmented from other aspects of the experience, so that someone healing from this work will encounter separate elements at a time, for example,

- grief
- terror
- sadness
- helplessness
- rage
- humiliation
etc.

and you are right to seek out methods specific to resolving each element.

I have found martial arts to be especially helpful in resolving anger and rage. It also helps to overcome feelings of helplessness and humiliation, which are the result of being unable to prevent the event. In order to heal the anger and helplessness, you need to recover a sense of sacred boundaries, and that comes from claiming the right to defend your body and your power.

I explored a number of styles to find the right one. I found that Tai Chi wasn't quite right, for example, because its movements are peaceful and graceful, and its focus is on cultivating emotions of serenity and calm. Of course we all want to cultivate these qualities, but it isn't the right fit for overcoming victimization. What worked for me? Iaido and Jeet Kune Do. When I took Iaido classes, I got to hold a long wooden practice sword and practice chopping and yelling. :D I think you can imagine this would feel good! In Jeet Kune Do, I got to kick and punch special padded bags held by my trainer. In fact, my teacher at the time would note when a release had come through me because the kick would come out like a bolt of lightning, knocking me off-balance, and would make a very clean sound.

I recommend working in small classes or taking private lessons, where you can get personal focused attention from your trainer, and you can also say simply to them that you are recovering from an attack. Without going into details, they are then aware of what you are dealing with, and will not be surprised if emotions come up for you during practice. For this reason, I advise you pick your trainer carefully. There is an abundance of machismo within martial arts and these types have no compassion for a woman recovering from an attack who is going to get emotional. Steer clear of those types. Preferably, take a female self-defense class, which is more likely to be filled with other women like you, and be directly about helping women overcome victimization.

I came across a great website the other day, and ordered her book. The website is "Awakening the Warrior Within" and the woman is Dawn Callan. Perhaps this is something you'd be interested in looking at.

Find the class that meets your needs and your budget. It's everywhere nowadays and it's worth every penny.

Best regards for your continued healing,
Jill Morgyn

Veles
19th December 2006, 04:43 AM
hm... i'm kinda confused
can you lose your soul? how?
would you notice any difference...?
i thought... i thought that we can't live without our dear souls... And it's enernal. You can lose you body, but not yourself(a.k.a. soul)
I never really though about it much, just used to think that's the way it is...
:?

19th December 2006, 04:56 AM
hm... i'm kinda confused
can you lose your soul? how?
would you notice any difference...?
i thought... i thought that we can't live without our dear souls... And it's enernal. You can lose you body, but not yourself(a.k.a. soul)
I never really though about it much, just used to think that's the way it is...
:?

Hi there,

This thread is discussing fragmentation of Spirit/Soul/Psyche. In most cases, parts of the spirit/soul/psyche are not lost, per se, but rather fragmented from the whole or walled off, most often through trauma. It is sometimes referred to as soul loss because it is a part of you that is no longer in contact with the rest of you, this is what is meant by the term "loss". This does not mean it has to be permanently separated, in fact, we are discussing ways of healing these fragments to reunite them with the rest of our being.

It can happen when you experience incredibly overwhelming pain and fear. It is a way people sometimes cope with trauma when it is too much to handle at that time: the part of you experiencing the trauma is walled off, or fragmented from the whole. This portion of your spirit stays 'stuck in time' at the moment of that trauma and does not usually grow with the rest of you. When one is ready, one can begin to heal these fragments and bring them back to rejoin the whole, but, it is a difficult process and can take a very long time.

You can read more about this here:

http://www.shamans-cave.com/Soul_Loss.html

Hope this helps. :)

Veles
19th December 2006, 09:51 AM
thanks scymitar72!
sounds like it actually does make sense and it isn't that rare... just never though of it as a soul loss...

CFTraveler
19th December 2006, 02:15 PM
hm... i'm kinda confused
can you lose your soul? how?
would you notice any difference...?
i thought... i thought that we can't live without our dear souls... And it's enernal. You can lose you body, but not yourself(a.k.a. soul)
I never really though about it much, just used to think that's the way it is...
:? I'd like to add something to what scymitar said:
You cannot lose your soul because you are your soul. You can however, lose touch (or a connection to) that part of yourself that has been severely traumatized. Think of how in your computer you delete a file. You don't actually physically remove the file, you remove the route or link to it. If you are really good about it, you can reshuffle it to a sector where it's really hard to find. It's the same with a fragment loss. If you suppress a reaction so severely that it becomes repressed (i.e.) you forget that the cause even happened, you have become fragmented.
(Is that right, computer experts out there?)

Pilar
30th December 2006, 06:48 PM
Think of how in your computer you delete a file. You don't actually physically remove the file, you remove the route or link to it. If you are really good about it, you can reshuffle it to a sector where it's really hard to find. It's the same with a fragment loss. If you suppress a reaction so severely that it becomes repressed (i.e.) you forget that the cause even happened, you have become fragmented.
(Is that right, computer experts out there?)

That is a great description of what is occurring in fragmentation.