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Pilar
29th August 2006, 05:21 AM
I have read thru RBs books and am still sitting on the edge, afraid to seriously attempt leaving my body consciously. I think I will make sure I begin the practices in daylight, for this reason...

Since I was a little kid, I've had all kinds of dreaming/sleeping problems. Body paralysis, sleep-walking, sleep-talking, night terrors, and even seeing things--I remember one time waking up and not being able to break free of 'real time', whether I opened or closed my eyes, I saw the same thing: my bedroom filled with hundreds of smoky-dark 'spirits' coming up through the floor and going out the ceiling. And then there's the spider hallucinations, where I wake up and see spiders in my bed and I am out the door and halfway down the hall before I wake up and somebody is standing over me with a concerned look on their face going--are you alright?? Uh, yeah, it's just that I wake up terrified and see all kinds of flying insects and spiders. Sometimes I even see the spiders when I am awake. Great.

This has contributed to me being a bit of an insomniac as an adult who is seriously deprived of NREM sleep. So a week or so ago, I began experimenting with melatonin before bed, was having the best sleeps of my life since I can ever even remember, and sure enough--! I had a freaky episode. This time I woke up trying to scream but squeaking, trying to move my body but not feeling in it fully, and some big winged mosquito-like insect the size of a large cat flying straight in my face. I was out in the hall moaning when my roommate found me and helped me wake up.

Since this forum is filled with folks who've had experiences like mine and are learning how to successfully cope, I thought I'd post my experiences and ask--

what can I do to break these occurences? I am not sure how I will be able to get anywhere with the astral projection course with my history of negative associations with OBE!

Advice welcome--
Pilar.

CFTraveler
29th August 2006, 02:25 PM
Well, the only advice I can give is try some passive countermeasures and prayers before trying. That way you can take some control of your fears- and I would suggest reading the topic 'Taming the Amygdala' in either the expanding consciousness section or this section.
What you are describing sound like 'dweller' type manifestations- and they do go away once you're in the astral proper.

Pilar
29th August 2006, 09:46 PM
I took your advice and looked up 'dwellers' and re-read the RB section on elementals and astral wildlife. What a relief--this is completely understandable. So next time I see one of these things I will give it a great big hug or yell 'boo!' at it, depending on what I can remember. :D

Thanks for the cheer!

Aloha
Pilar

ranlinra13
4th September 2006, 03:49 PM
In addition to so much informtion that Robert has in his book for counter measures, may I suggest another?

Depending on the type of "insect" I have learned that lemon oil protects against some of them. You could annoint your temples, third eye and feet with lemon oil before going to sleep. You could even use the lemon oil in the dream state or astral state where you could create the lemon oil.

I have found that the lemon oil works well on the black sticky instects that could join together to become bigger bugs and nasties.

Wishing you peaceful sleep.

4th September 2006, 04:42 PM
This probably won't help you, but I thought it was a kind of strange spider experience that I now understand. I was married at 19 to my high school sweetheart. I was a very spoiled child and went from Daddy to husband without ever really taking care of myself. Throughout my 9 year marriage, I had horrible spider dreams. They were always chasing me, and I couldn't get away no matter what. I would always wake up just as they were getting me, almost always crying and screaming.

After my husband walked out on me and our two young sons, one at the beginning of three years of chemotherapy for leukemia, I had to sink or swim. I went from being a very dependent person to taking charge of my own life. I signed up for and went to nursing school full time, worked 2 part time jobs, and took my son daily, then weekly, then monthly for 3 years an hour away for chemo. The DAY our divorce was final, the spider dreams completely stopped. Never had one since.

After trying for years to figure that one out, I now have the answer. It had to do with believing in myself and taking back my own power. I always lived in fear of losing those close to me that I depended on. Negs (in the form of spiders) fed off of that fear and perpetuated it in dreams. When I took back my own life and released the fear, the spiders lost their fear food and their grip on my sleep and dreams. I'm not even afraid of physical ones. :D

Rhone
4th September 2006, 05:34 PM
I'm short on time, so I'll link to a thread in which I posted my thoughts on the subject of reducing fear: http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=3554

In my opinion, ridding oneself of fear is vital, not just for OBEs or energy work, but for every aspect of life.

4th September 2006, 05:44 PM
nikpalj's posts may help. there is absolutely nothing to fear but fear itself. your own fears and anxieties manifest, you know that?? we are beings endowed with a limitless image- innate- tion. our imaginations are designed to create. we can manifest our own thoughts into reality, just like on the astral. except in this more mundaine dimension things take time, and work to manifest. we do have the power to manifest whatever we need here on earth. negs tend to screw with that and use it against us...

once finely tuned, we can manifest whatever we need, many occultists are like this, creating powerful spells (spells are just reality creation techniques) and manifesting whatever they need (remember need and want are 2 different words). some choose to cheat and use black magic, these people are just self centred, vindictive, scared and greedy.

http://forums.astraldynamics.com/search ... or=Nikpalj (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/search.php?search_author=Nikpalj)

Pilar
4th September 2006, 05:56 PM
Thanks for sharing that post/thread, Rhone. It was very helpful.

What I am beginning to suspect, also, is that it is a very good idea to do cleansing/purification for some time BEFORE embarking on astral projection, otherwise one is just going to see everything they haven't yet dealt with/shaken off. It can be alot easier to deal with these things through other, less visual practices.

I admit--

It is wearing me down to hear talk of negs constantly. Of course they are there, just like serial killers, theives, pedophiles and rapists exist in our cities, and there are sharks (few left) in the ocean and bears in the forest, and if you want to go looking, you will find no end to the people/situations who are looking to take advantage of you and manipulate you and harm you. Yes, of course these things exist and they are all attracted by fear because they are predators and ours is a predatory universe. It does dismay me to hear 'love and light' put down like it's some sort of naive and misguided focus. If we aren't seeking higher states of being such as love and/or light in our AP practice, then why are we doing this exactly?

I grew up with a fundamentalist pentacostal mother who got involved in a group of 'spiritual warfarists'. Her whole life became focused on demons--who has them, how to fight them off, where are they plotting to hit next, organized all-night meetings to pray against them, organized all-evening meetings to cast them out of people. She was my only parent, and my only experience of the world, and she exposed me to every form of negativity possible through her choices. What it really comes down to for me is this: what am I focusing on, at this moment, right now? That will be my experience. What kind of experience do I want to have?

Personally, I've had all the experiences with negs and demons that I want to. I'm going for the love and light, thanks!

Which all leads me to the fact that I'm seriously considering whether this practice is for me. Whether it will help me, bring me forward in my goals of healing and establishing peace and joy in my life, rather than just more negativity and suffering and grief.

So on that note, I am going go away and think for awhile.

Rhone
5th September 2006, 03:53 AM
What I am beginning to suspect, also, is that it is a very good idea to do cleansing/purification for some time BEFORE embarking on astral projection, otherwise one is just going to see everything they haven't yet dealt with/shaken off. It can be alot easier to deal with these things through other, less visual practices.

I think you have the right idea there. :)


It is wearing me down to hear talk of negs constantly. Of course they are there, just like serial killers, theives, pedophiles and rapists exist in our cities, and there are sharks (few left) in the ocean and bears in the forest, and if you want to go looking, you will find no end to the people/situations who are looking to take advantage of you and manipulate you and harm you.
Personally, I wouldn't recommend reading the serious neg abuse forum for those who don't have good control over their own thoughts. There's some horrifying stuff in there, and dwelling on them can result in attracting negs or creating negative thought-forms. Unless you're unlucky or, for whatever reason are dealt a very difficult neg situation by fate/karma/whatever, it's quite possible to get into all this stuff without negs being much of an issue.

I like the fact that you compared negs to serial killers etc. They are similar in the sense that, yes, they are out there and they exist, but as long as you take certain sensible precautions your chances of encountering one that's strong enough to really hurt you are small enough that it's not worth obsessing over.


It does dismay me to hear 'love and light' put down like it's some sort of naive and misguided focus.

I hope you didn't misunderstand my mention of "love and light" in my post in the thread I linked. To clarify, I was speaking specifically of "love and light" as a countermeasure for defending oneself from neg attacks. As a general attitude toward life and others, love and light is great! In my opinion, it's the ideal perspective to have!

By analogy, it is good to be a kind, generous, and compassionate to others. But if you're about to be attacked or raped on the street, you're probably better off delivering a swift kick to the nuts and running. Likewise, negs are best dealt with using a large dose of assertiveness and, if necessary, force.

I do think that, in general, a very positive and compassionate attitude helps decrease one's chance of attracting negs in the first place.

I tend to believe that life is what you make of it, and that people tend to find what they're looking for (there are exceptions, but IMO it works like that more often than not). Your mother obsessed over negs and demons, so that's what she found. In my opinion, if you take some minor precautions (e.g. cleansing negative energy from your aura and maybe doing some shielding), keep your thoughts/feelings positive, and look for positive things, then you will most likely be fine.

Pilar
5th September 2006, 04:12 AM
Thank-you, Rhone. A kind and compassionate, and affirming, answer.