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4th September 2006, 05:50 PM
This was posted by a new member in another forum. I thought it would be an interesting discussion for this forum.

I have an overwhelming fear of Hell. It seems to be from my childhood belief system of christianity and perhaps my mothers beliefs that doing any OBE work is not of God. I know the that beliefs are a strong force in ones experience. I feel torn. My energy work / OBE/ development are very important to me, but when I begin to progress, fear grips me, as though I am doing something "wrong" (wrong as in Im not supposed to be doing this stuff and its against God etc..) I want to know the best and most effective way of clearing out belief systems (beleifs) and turning them into knowns, if that makes any sense. These thoughts and feelings seem quite negative to me (the beliefs that I am going to hell for eternity) and negativity , to me, doesnt sound/feel like it should be synonymous with God. I hope I wasn't to vaugue in my writing and that you understand what I was attempting (i think rather poorly) of expressing.
I would recommend to you to read Robert Monroe's books, particularly "Far Journeys". He was a western pioneer on OBE (actually coined the phrase OBE). He developed a system he called "Focus" levels to describe the astral/states of consciousness. After traveling to these focus levels hundreds of times and verifying his experiences with test subjects, he wrote some very interesting things about hells.

They pretty much reside in Focus 24, 25, and 26, what he calls the "Belief System Territories". We go where we believe we will go after physical death. There are Christian heavens with Jesus in residence, Buddhist heavens (or is it Nirvana?) with Buddha hanging out, etc. There are also hells from each religion that were created by the collective unconscious. There are also tailor-made hells for those who have particular beliefs.

Focus 27 lies beyond and is called "The Park/Reception Center". Many guides reside there along with those who have become aware that we create our own reality. They do rescues regularly to the Belief System Territories to help those residing there understand that they don't have to stay there...there is much more love and awareness available than what they are experiencing. It is simply a matter of expanding your beliefs and creating your own reality.

So, when we die, we automatically go wherever our beliefs are focused at that time. We always have the choice to move on to greater awareness, but many become stuck and chained to their personal belief system out of fear or knowing nothing else. From what I've read about people (living) who astral travel and do rescues, it is much easier to change your belief system while on earth rather than once we physically die. This is because the astral is a place where the idea that "thoughts are things" is much more instantaneous and powerful. So, a belief that you are stuck in, in the astral, is so powerful that it takes a lot more to convince you otherwise. So, it is a wonderful thing that you are searching for answers and trying to remain open right now. Keep learning, keep asking, and you will discover your answers and find peace.

You might also find this interesting: http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewto ... highlight= (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=4325&highlight=)

enoch
4th September 2006, 06:44 PM
Briefly (I've not really thought hard about this) I would dig into the bible (especially the old testament) and begin a personal relationship with the book. Thing is - we're so good (us humans) at accepting the teachings of other people who really don't have the authority (or the knowledge) to interpret texts for us. No offence to the priestly caste...but there is nothing more mind teasing than the incomprehensible eagerly avowed! (Dennet). Something to think about.

star
4th September 2006, 07:26 PM
I got over my fear of hell by listening to Death/Black Metal. Also doing several summonings and occult practices around that.

Yeesh, pointless stuff I tell you. Anyway, Not scared of hell anymore. I got a good push in a better direction since those days.

Still listen to the music tho. Good stuff, Metal.

CFTraveler
4th September 2006, 09:51 PM
Interestingly I answered the question in the Down Under Forum before I came across this thread. I guess we all had something to say!

my answer: http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=4368

4th September 2006, 09:53 PM
fear based mind control.


the problem with hinduism and buddhism, is not so much its doctrines (which are similar to many, many other religions), it is there heirarchy, class systems, and a system of control set in place. in hinduism, budhism, jainism, sikhism... the sytem of control is DHARMA and KARMA. dharma governs karma, it entails what is good and what is bad karma. these laws of dharma are used to control people's actions through fear. just liek the bible, the commandments, and the fear of sin. thsi fear of sin and burning in hell (helios) is what keeps people in line. it is fear based mind control!- for example, if i were a christian i couldnt have sex until i was married, because idd burn in hell. thsi is controling my actions, using fear as a deterrent). so even though hinduism, budhism, etc... have alot of real substance to them, they are still religions designed to control masses, and to acctually hold us back spiritualy.

Palehorse Redivivus
5th September 2006, 08:48 AM
This just had to come up after I took my site down. :P

Ms. Shawnna was nice enough to toss it back up on her webspace for me (let's give 'er a hand!)... but some years ago I was trying to figure out what to do about the same fear, ended up researching the issue from every possible angle, and out of that came an essay. In the years since, word has gotten back to me quite a few times that it has helped many others overcome lingering fears of their own, so I'll toss it up here for anyone interested.

If you don't feel like reading a long essay, the gist of it is that even though we've been trained to read the doctrine of eternal torment into the text, in reality it showed up in Christianity relatively late, was just one of many schools of thought on the subject for centuries, and requires a ridiculous amount of mistranslation, misunderstanding and general logical gymnastics to maintain.

http://shoupe.home.comcast.net/Hell.html

Edit: just remembered I had this too, might also be of interest; a post from years ago that I had uploaded, where I had compiled all the references to universal salvation in the bible. If nothing else, there are a lot more of them than there are verses used to support hell, which might cause one to question whether the problem lies with our understanding of the latter, not the former.

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/palehorse13x/univ.html

CFTraveler
5th September 2006, 02:21 PM
Awesome, Palehorse. These are keepers, especially the first one.

Jaysonlee420
5th September 2006, 06:19 PM
Thanks for all of your views! Wow, you all responded so quickly and supportively, thats really awesome to me. As for Robert Monroe's stuff, I've read one of his books where he sort of got into some of the stuff that hypno was trying to explain, and found it fascinating. I think alot of my problem is perception. One can turn a belief into a known, however, how can one be sure that one is percieving the known the way it is meant to be percieved? (sigh) questions questions....LOL Thank you all again for your support and I hope to get to know you all better in the futre.


Sincerely,

Jayson

enoch
5th September 2006, 06:34 PM
"how can one be sure that one is percieving the known the way it is meant to be percieved?"

If only. :roll:

Jaysonlee420
5th September 2006, 09:19 PM
seems like a valid question to me....for instance, two people can have the same experience in the physical universe, and still percieve it differently sometimes in these perceptions, there is no right or wrong, but sometimes i think there can be,,,,for instance if i ask my son to do something, and he percieves me as being "mean" or rude while asking, that could certainly change his views about me...if I was not showing him rudeness (being mean, or rude etc...) when I asked him to do that particular thing, then his perception would be an incorrect one.....see my point?

Jaysonlee420
7th September 2006, 05:33 AM
hey there nwb....wow, never thought of that one...i mean the fear of waking up after being dead (the coffin thing) very interesting. It seems we are nearly neighbors as you reside in CO Springs....super cool!

Inx
7th September 2006, 02:16 PM
Jayson, it is really simple - in the lower levels there is a place that you might call "Hell", but the fact is, that when you die, you can choose where you want to go and what is the thing you want to do. Nobody decides for you, where your place is. You shall be able to choose between being reborn again on earth (or some other place), traveling around the whole universe, staying in the higher levels, or going down to Hell if you want it - anything you can imagine. In the end, it's all up to you.

besides - many priests are also quite adept at energy work. It's just that in christianity it is interpreted in a different way.

and Bible should not be taken literally.

7th September 2006, 03:48 PM
The idea of waking up in the grave comes from earlier centuries when they didn't understand resucitation. People who were in comas or had a disease process that slowed down their vital signs could have been mistaken for having died, and could inadvertently have been buried. There is extremely little chance of that happening today. People aren't pronounced dead without a number of checks being done to verify the physical body has died (at least in the west).

Regarding Inx's idea that we choose where to go when we die, I don't think it's quite like that. It's more a matter that we are drawn to an astral place (focus) based on our belief system at the time of our death. The choice lies in what we choose to believe. If you consider yourself a Christian and that you believe Jesus is your savior, you will automatically be drawn to that focus area where there is a Christian heaven with others of the same belief system. If you are a cruel, inhumane person, you will be drawn to a focus area where other cruel, inhumane people reside. There, you will be able to continue your cruel, inhumane activities, but with a twist...others will also be able to perpetuate these activities on you. Which, ultimately is a form of torture, but self imposed because of the mind set that you died with. Not consciously self imposed, but drawn to. The choice to leave/change your mind or beliefs is always there, just as it is here. Change your mind, change your focus. As simple, but as difficult as that is. Changing your belief system is much easier to do while incarnating. Once you physically die and cross over to the astral, it is more difficult to change your focus because you can become stuck in your beliefs, which are played out for you much more instantaneously than in the physical.

Jaysonlee420
7th September 2006, 04:52 PM
very interesting replies from both of you.....now the question is, how does one turn these theories into known facts.....perhaps a study of ones past lives (if they exist) could shed some light on this area....I would also imagine that OBE work could also do something to shed light on this also....what you had both said was basically the idea(s) that I had in my head,,,well more theory than idea i suppose...however changing hypothesis into belief, and then into know can be quite a journey as I am discovering, and thats pretty much where I seem to be in the process of things. Thank you very much for your views on this and other matters.

Jayson

Jaysonlee420
7th September 2006, 06:02 PM
was this an NDE connected to this life, or was this a past life situation?

Inx
9th September 2006, 12:31 PM
hey, painter :D

I had this thought about focus based on our belief system... if we go where we believe we will go after death, and if there are separate areas for each belief, then maybe it happens when we are alive as well...?

Maybe each person projects to "another astral" which has the characteristics of his belief? Maybe each projector creates his own astral that somehow interacts with other astrals which are created by other projectors?

This is quite a cheesy thought, but it came to my mind, while elaborating on your idea...

But let me get this straight - when I will die, I will go to astral and be able to chose what to do, if I believe in choice after death? Or is it just that my open mind won't send me to any of those belief system areas?

CFTraveler
9th September 2006, 04:18 PM
hey, painter :D

I had this thought about focus based on our belief system... if we go where we believe we will go after death, and if there are separate areas for each belief, then maybe it happens when we are alive as well...? See the thread on Manifesting by painter and others.


Maybe each person projects to "another astral" which has the characteristics of his belief? Maybe each projector creates his own astral that somehow interacts with other astrals which are created by other projectors? I thought that was the modern definition of the astral-an energetic medium which responds immediately to thought energy, being perceived in a subjective way.

This is quite a cheesy thought, but it came to my mind, while elaborating on your idea... Not cheesy at all, I think we eventually reach the same conclusion.

But let me get this straight - when I will die, I will go to astral and be able to chose what to do, if I believe in choice after death? Or is it just that my open mind won't send me to any of those belief system areas? Well, I'd say we're already in the astral, but when our material body dies we stop receiving input from the more dense areas of the universe (the material world) and just interact with the astral directly. Since our minds have been temporarily conditioned by temporal belief, we manifest this belief with whatever we create, until we reach the moment when we no longer need these beliefs, and possibly achieve more direct interaction with this medium,- you may see some of these areas, just because you've heard of them, but prob. won't stay in each for long. As to what happens after that, ...
ps. I'm not painter but had to respond to such a tasty question. She may be on vacation but may be logging in anyway, so I don't know if you'll get a timely response from her, so I just jumped in. :lol:

Jaysonlee420
10th September 2006, 03:50 AM
this topic is turning out to be a pretty good one! Thank you for clarifying that last point (about it being in between lives).....if I may ask...how did you enable yourself to get access to this memory??

Lion
23rd October 2006, 05:33 PM
I believe that some places are more imaginary, while some are more objective. In this case, Hell would be a real place, though many visions of it are not.

In a number of Bible passages, the prophet's experiences begin when his spirit is seperate from his body, which is "as dead." A cutting of the silver chord upon death is mentioned. Will Christians say that OBE's are necessarily evil out of one side of their mouth, and then quote accounts of them out the other?

Has anyone recieved any information from their experiences, which leads them to believe that someone guit-tripped them into obsessing about Hell? You may be fantasizing, or you may have access to an important message, regardless of what the preacher in your life thinks.

23rd October 2006, 08:34 PM
Jaysonlee said:

perhaps a study of ones past lives (if they exist) could shed some light on this area....I would also imagine that OBE work could also do something to shed light on this also
This has been done using hypnotherapy regarding past lives. Read Michael Newton and Dr. Brian Weiss' books.

For OBE info about life after death, read Robert Monroe, Bruce Moen, and Rosalind McKnight.

Inx.....what CFTraveler said. :D