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McArthur
9th October 2006, 03:20 AM
Do Negs feed off negative energy?

There is a common misconception that Negs feed on "negative energy" which then leads some to form the belief that a person has neg problems because they are themselves being negative and it is this that attracts the negs. Something like - "If only they would take a more positive outlook on things and align themselves more to Love and Light and have positive emotions these negs might eventually leave because they can't feed off positive emotions. Once they deal with their own negative aspects that are attracting the negs then their problem will finally be resolved." I think what people might not realize is that a lot of neg victims, regardless of their situation, are in fact Lightworkers and can be very loving and compassionate beings.

So I have to disagree with this idea about "negative energy", however much I would like it to be true, because there is a lot of evidence against this belief. Prana/Chi is not itself "positive" or "negative", nor is it an emotion (angry, sad, negative etc), but it is this Prana/Chi that the Negs feed on. Robert Bruce has himself argued many times against this belief of a persons "negativity" being what attracts negs by mentioning the many positive and holy people in history who have been attacked. He also mentions about the times in his work where he has come across babies and small children (i.e the innocents) that have been attacked by negs. Robert himself (someone I consider very positive and highly spiritual) has also himself experienced many attacks by negs.

I know people like to quote the law of attraction as though it is an absolute rule and may support the belief that neg victims cause their own problems by being negative, but I think this is a somewhat simplistic view of a very complex problem. I suppose I just wanted to start a thread to discuss this because I see it a lot where people think Negs feed on "negative emotions" which is almost like trying to put the blame on the neg victim themselves for being so negative that they attracted the negs to them (I'm not suggesting this is intentional, but can in fact be seen that way by some victims). If the law of attraction is true then did the Jews in Nazi Germany and the Buddhist monks in Tibet draw those dictators to them to massacre them because they themselves were being negative? Are rape victims drawing the molestors to them by their own negativity or the law of attraction?

RB has said that a lot of negs get attached to people who have experienced trauma of some kind because this can cause "cracks" or "holes" in ones aura. What happens then is you start to leak prana through these holes, which in turn can attract Negs just like sharks are attracted by blood in the water. It isn't because they only feed on "negative energy" or because they are called "Negs" it is because they pick on those who they see as easier meals, and a person can be an easy meal for a variety of different reasons, a lot of which don't include the person being "negative" and giving off "negative energy/emotions".

I guess I want to discuss this issue because in the past I have been through the times where I've thought I must be being punished by God or something and a really bad person to have attracted so much "bad karma" and beat myself up plenty of times over it. But you know what? It was the negs influencing a lot of that self-hate because it weakens the victim and quite often gets the person into "accepting" what is happening to them because they "deserve it" and is thier "karma", so they give up fighting, which suits the negs just fine.

I have had the "negative voices" for a few years, always there ready to accuse you of having bad thoughts and being such a horrible and unworthy wretch and have learnt many things and gained a lot of insights into how these negs operate. If by speaking out I can help one person to see that their problems might not be caused by their own "negativity" or "bad karma", that they might not actually be to "blame" for getting themselves into a Neg situation, then it's worth it.

A note from Admin. Tempestinateapot/Painterhypnogirl on Oct. 10, 2006:

This thread has brought about a certain degree of conflict. A question was raised as to why it was allowed in the first place. If I understand McArthur correctly, he was originally posting because a number of people (including myself) have brought up ideas about positive thinking and love and light are all that's necessary to overcome neg attachment. Those who have major problems often have a different viewpoint and are sometimes hurt by the insinuations that they aren't positive or working hard enough to rid themselves of negs.

This has been an ongoing debate since the beginnings of this website, as well as even further back in websites Robert was a part of. I believe that it is such an important topic, and one where we all can learn a lot from each other, that it needs a place of prominence. If it occasionally needs moderating or clarification for understanding, I'm perfectly ok with that. It's a topic that engenders a lot of emotion in many people, and for good reason. Lives are highly impacted by it. Robert is a great believer in psychic defense (hence the book "Practical Psychic Defense") and teaching/learning ways to help. He places great importance in the subject, as do many on this website.

This thread will remain a Sticky in this forum. If anyone is not comfortable with the discussions in this thread, then I would suggest not reading it. There are hundreds of other topics of interest, that it shouldn't be a problem with this one thread.

Much hurt and much healing has come about because of the ability of people to clash with their different viewpoints, learn from it, and move on to healing. My wish is that we will receive much healing from each other with threads like these.

Tom
9th October 2006, 04:50 AM
It is true that there is a tendency to play "blame the victim". You are probably creating this thread in response to a specific situation which you aren't telling us about. Without knowing the specifics I just want to say that a person under attack by a neg needs to call for help from an Archangel and not a bigger neg. The point of trying to hold as positive an emotion as possible is as a counter-attack and not prevention.

Pilar
9th October 2006, 03:11 PM
Cultivating states of love and light aid in repairing tears in the aura, so that is a good practice to undergo when healing. Ultimately, focusing on healing work to repair the aura, raising energy and strengthening one's core and boundaries are going to aid one in recovering and regaining personal integrity more than focusing on negs, neg-fighting, neg-talk etc, which may just take the person deeper into neg involvement.

I think the negativity is a factor though. You are saying that negs create negative thoughts in your mind. So refusing to entertain those negative mind-states is also a defense against negs. Replacing them instead with feelings of well-being and peace, and self-love, are a form of shielding and healing. I mean, the Tibetan monks have been doing this for a long time, so I don't think they are all wrong about this.

I think the term "karma" has also been extremely misunderstood in the West, because it just got merged with the Judeao-Christian mindset that there is a big Male God up in the sky meting out rewards and punishments. Karma is not reward or punishment. Karma is simply a law of this reality, which would be more accurately translated as 'consequence'. Based on a philosophy that states we are not operating as separate entities within a spacious universe, but rather all parts of One larger organism, karma refers to the nature of Oneness.

It is like gravity, if you drop a glass of water, it is going to fall. It doesn't matter if you meant to, feel sorry for it, it was an accident, etc. Once that action is released, it has a consequence that ripples out into the world. Since you are moving through this reality in many incarnations, the ripples of your past actions are still carrying forward. This doesn't necessarily translate into being 'punished' for 'past sins', but rather, recognizes that every situation in the present is arising from past events (of everyone, not just you). Your current set of circumstances has arisen as a result of the past choices of everyone who has gone before that is affecting you now. Robert Bruce does refer to generational neg involvements/contracts, so in that case, neg attacks can be karmic, in the sense that you may be having to deal with something that was created by someone before you.

I think if I'm understanding you correctly, what you're really wanting people to understand is we're all susceptible to attack, and it doesn't mean you are a weak, negative or unspiritual person. and you are requesting some compassion and empathy rather than judgment toward people who are dealing with neg attacks.

9th October 2006, 03:23 PM
Cultivating states of love and light aid in repairing tears in the aura, so that is a good practice to undergo when healing. Ultimately, focusing on healing work to repair the aura, raising energy and strengthening one's core and boundaries are going to aid one in recovering and regaining personal integrity more than focusing on negs, neg-fighting, neg-talk etc, which may just take the person deeper into neg involvement.

I think finding a balance is important - too much focus on either side can lead to blindness of the other side. For me, I want to know how these things work so I can fight them off, so, it's important to devote some energy to understanding them. Just ignoring them and focusing on love and light will not make them go away or stop attacking. :)

9th October 2006, 04:30 PM
RB has said that a lot of negs get attached to people who have experienced trauma of some kind because this can cause "cracks" or "holes" in ones aura. What happens then is you start to leak prana through these holes, which in turn can attract Negs just like sharks are attracted by blood in the water. It isn't because they only feed on "negative energy" or because they are called "Negs" it is because they pick on those who they see as easier meals, and a person can be an easy meal for a variety of different reasons, a lot of which don't include the person being "negative" and giving off "negative energy/emotions".

What causes the cracks? The traumatic experience itself or the intensely negative emotions caused by the traumatic event? This is something I can relate to, having these cracks myself from traumatic events.

9th October 2006, 05:06 PM
I understand your frustration, McArthur, and I think this thread is a really great idea for people to try to come to an understanding...for all of our sakes. Thanks for posting it and expressing your feelings regarding this so eloquently and politely. And, know that I do love you, McArthur.

Pilar, I was going to post something almost exactly like what you wrote. :D

As someone who works a lot with clients regarding extreme problems in their lives that appear to be caused by nothing they themselves have done, I regularly see the effects of past life experiences being dragged into the present life. For those reading this who are not aware, I specialize in past life regression hypnotherapy. I am not anywhere near being an expert on identifying what is neg related behaviour or not. That is something that I am still learning about and trying to figure out. As McArthur pointed out, it is extremely complicated.

From what I have personally witnessed, in watching and doing spirit releasements (on physically dead spirits and negative spirits), the positive approach has been very successful. In a negative entity releasement that I did (I have done very, very few), I did as I was taught. In dialoguing with the entity, discovering why it was attaching to my client, and explaining to it how it could be transformed and be much happier moving on to the light, rather than feeding off my client, I was in astonishment regarding the results. It wasn't easy, and it took quite a lot of convincing, but in the end, it moved on into the light.

Now, I realize this was absolutely not a case of possession, which I know is very different. I don't claim to have any experience or knowledge about that. I leave that to those who are gifted in this area.

But, one thing I have learned through doing regressions, is that not only do we bring negative feelings, actions, and entities into each lifetime with us, most of it is by choice. I see the connections between lifetimes and the pain people are experiencing in this present lifetime when doing regressions. It is pretty miraculous how when a client experiences a past lifetime, moves on into the spirit world (all under hypnotherapy), speaks with spiritual guides, and learns the reasons for the pain they are experiencing, that pain and negative attachment disappear.

So, when I say that most things that happen to us that are negative are by our own choice, I am not speaking about choices we have made during this present incarnation. I am talking about things we have chosen to experience and deal with on a much grander level. It is a soul choice, or what some would call a Higher Self choice. These are decisions based on eternal views, with much more knowledge going into the choices than what we are aware of right now. Also, as Pilar said, so many things happen to us that are a karmic reaction (a balancing). My personal view is that we are not forced into any of this. We, ourselves, choose to balance the scales for our evolvement and growth. We are always our own judge and jury. No one, including God, ever judges us. That is our own choice. Because at the heart of everything, we are all Love. And, Love forgives. If we would only apply this to ourselves, we would recognize the need to forgive ourselves in between lives. We could avoid much pain and hardship during our next incarnation. But, hard-headed as we humans are, we blind ourselves to the fact that loving and forgiving ourselves balances the karmic wheel immediately. It also amazes me that when people are regressed into the afterlife between lives, they still carry forward the guilt they have of things they have done in past lifetimes. Because of that guilt, It is very, very hard to let go of the idea that we need to punish ourselves. And so, we make pretty bad decisions about what to experience going forward. Decisions that will hurt us. Decisions that will bring us pain and appear to be unfair. Because, we also bring in with us the decision to forget what choices we have made. Silly us, we must not know about the pain coming our way, or we wouldn't balance that karmic wheel. We think we need to have it slap us in the face, completely unaware.

So, I have a fairly radical suggestion. I'm not the originator of this, but I like to share it for those who are ready to hear it. Spend THIS lifetime working on loving yourself, forgiving yourself, and everyone for everything. Learn to love everything. Even your tormentors, be they another human, a negative entity, or a physically dead human who may be tormenting you. At the moment of your death, be in awareness that love transcends everything, that you are the only one who has the keys to your liberation. Die to the idea that you are a victim. Die to the idea that you are helpless. Die with the knowledge that forgiveness and love are the only things you want to take with you past this lifetime. That truly is the only way out of any kind of bondage.

We are all in pain. We are all together in this. We have all made these choices for ourselves to experience this difficult thing called human life. We can love each other and help each other. But, we are alone in making the decisions to forgive and love. No one else can do that for us. It is difficult. I do not speak as someone who has had a wonderful, carefree life. I have lived through vast amounts of personal tragedy and pain. I take responsibility for all of it. I made those decisions on a soul level. It took 50 years for me to be able to say that. It took me 50 years to stop being a victim. It took me 50 years to understand that I am an accumulation of all I have done, said, and experienced in an eternity of lifetimes and existences. In that understanding, I have found peace. I am still experiencing great amounts of pain and tragedy, even as I write these words. Those around me are so sympathetic and do not believe I deserve the things that have happened to me. I know better. I know that it's all ok. I know I have chosen these things for myself. And, I will die with forgiveness and love of myself and all others. There is no other way left for me now. The knowledge has been released to me, and I can't put it back. Once you understand that, you are free....no matter what your circumstances.

Pilar
9th October 2006, 06:28 PM
Maybe this something to address too: it seems like on this forum there is a strong criticism against "Love and Lighters" as if people who are positive and use the terms love and light are somehow flakes who have never had any negative or painful experiences and 'just don't get it'. I think we need to be careful that we don't split the forum so that people who are positive and happy in their approach to difficult situations feel unwelcome here and their point of view is dismissed as naive and irrelevant. Let's remember that positivity and healing are the ultimate goals here, and so just as McArthur doesn't want to be judged as 'negative' for experiencing neg disturbances, neither do happy positive people want to be judged as 'naive or stupid' for seeking happiness. I know myself I've been feeling a bit unwelcome here as these criticisms often arise against those 'irritating/naive 'love and lighters' (or as PHG has mentioned being called a "fluffy bunny") type. It kind of dismisses the fact that we've all been through really challenging and painful experiences on our path toward love and light.

9th October 2006, 07:00 PM
Truth be told, there is somewhat of a divide in POV's here. (sidenote : sometimes I wonder if it has to do with the differing perspectives of The Right Hand Path vs The Left Hand Path). People faced with real neg problems have been told by a lot of 'fluffy bunny' types that all they need is 'love'. This can get very annoying because, in some folks view, this is not the whole and complete balanced answer. So yes, there are very differing opinions here.

I know that sometimes my posts can come off a bit rough and even feel combatant at times, if you were referring to that in your post, I apologize if I have made you feel uncomfortable. In no way is it meant to criticize or demean your POV and again, I apologize if it comes off that way. Sometimes I get very passionate about what I have experienced and that can come through a bit over-bearing at times.

9th October 2006, 08:11 PM
Alex said:

The negative patterns of a person under heavy attack become so entrenched that it almost feels like the thoughts belong to them.
This is a very interesting thought that I somewhat agree with, but also, somewhat disagree with. When I look at ideas such as these, I tend to look at it from the viewpoint that we are eternal beings, having lived many different existences, rather than focusing just on this lifetime. I recognize that many do not believe in multiple existences, so what I say can sound argumentative.

In some ways, the negative thoughts do belong to us. Many talk about our "shadow" selves, or loving the negative parts of ourselves. Loving the negative parts of yourself is a prominent teaching in psychology. So, looking at it from a "this lifetime only" viewpoint, I could see how some would say the negative thoughts come from negative entities influencing us, and others would say the negative thoughts come from our shadow selves. I think that's one reason it gets so confusing, and people want to line up on one side or the other of the debate. Most particularly, if they view themselves as having neg attachment, it feels very much like it is an outside influence, and most probably it is.

I don't really fall into either one of these categories of belief. I know, many would disagree with that statement, and say I am lying. But, only I know my true heart and what I believe. People will interpret anyone's post according to the very personal way in which they perceive things. And, it's very difficult to get your full feelings and beliefs out in a post. It's so much more complicated than we can describe in a post.

So, in the end, it's not that relevant to me whether something is a neg influenced thought or our shadow self talking. This is still looking at it from an eternal and Higher Self perspective. The end result is what's important to me. How one gets there is very personal, in action and decision making. But, what I am saying is that forgiving and loving oneself and others is what will bring about the fastest leap in evolvement and freedom from whatever it is that is making us negative and having negative experiences. We are all (as humans) a combination of negative and positive thoughts and experiences. None of us gets it perfectly right. All our paths are valid and heading in the same direction. The Life Force of the Universe IS Love. The sooner we align ourselves with that Force, the sooner we can be free.

9th October 2006, 09:13 PM
McArthur and I talked about this thread and decided to make it a Sticky. This is a topic that seems to come up every couple of months. As a Sticky, it will be interesting to see it grow and change as new members come on and express their opinions.

One housekeeping notice, though. All opinions and friendly debate are welcome, as long as they are polite. Any sentences, paragraphs, or entire posts will be edited if the moderators deem them derogatory or inflammatory. If you have a question about something you would like to say, and aren't sure if it isn't in line with the rules of the AD forums, please ask a moderator before posting. Hopefully, we can all learn a little more from each other.

9th October 2006, 09:45 PM
So I have to disagree with this idea about "negative energy", however much I would like it to be true, because there is a lot of evidence against this belief. Prana/Chi is not itself "positive" or "negative", nor is it an emotion (angry, sad, negative etc), but it is this Prana/Chi that the Negs feed on. Robert Bruce has himself argued many times against this belief of a persons "negativity" being what attracts negs by mentioning the many positive and holy people in history who have been attacked. He also mentions about the times in his work where he has come across babies and small children (i.e the innocents) that have been attacked by negs. Robert himself (someone I consider very positive and highly spiritual) has also himself experienced many attacks by negs.

The part in bold is not totally correct in my own experience. While Chi, which is the energy coming from the air we breath, is a specific target of some negative/programmed beings, there are many other things that these entities/robotic programs target. There is ether, psionic, and emotional energy which is what makes up your chakras, and there is your psyche itself which is a point of attack (thier goal being willpower here from my experience,) that being said they are not all after one thing. Some of these entities are quite robotic and under the control of other beings for reasons so varied and different than the norm that they can't be easily categorized. Also, the ones that are feeding off energy can't be considered evil any more than you can consider a parasite evil, because they really are just forces of nature at work.


I know people like to quote the law of attraction as though it is an absolute rule and may support the belief that neg victims cause their own problems by being negative, but I think this is a somewhat simplistic view of a very complex problem. I suppose I just wanted to start a thread to discuss this because I see it a lot where people think Negs feed on "negative emotions" which is almost like trying to put the blame on the neg victim themselves for being so negative that they attracted the negs to them (I'm not suggesting this is intentional, but can in fact be seen that way by some victims). If the law of attraction is true then did the Jews in Nazi Germany and the Buddhist monks in Tibet draw those dictators to them to massacre them because they themselves were being negative? Are rape victims drawing the molestors to them by their own negativity or the law of attraction?

This is a very misunderstood concept in my own experience, my experiences with this are very different than how it is usually portrayed. Take the rape victim for example. These are usually attractive women who have fluanted a little bit or way too much, and either found themselves in a situation where they had been drugged at someone's home (not thier fualt,) or more commonly they were going down a back alley or similiar place where it was easy to take advantage of them. So, while technically the situation wasn't thier fault, (and addmittedly the above situations are very generalized and I am well aware that victims that do not fall under the above generalization certainly exist,) the blame game is much more complicated than it first appears. It's the same with victims of the more extreme varieties of negative entities. Thier emotions are either too positive at the time of attack or too negative, or jumbled. With a neg victims the emotions and character is never streamlined and balanced either naturally or through introspective endeavors. This makes them, as you have said, not the easy target, so an attack will utterly fail and the neg will move on unless you aren't dealing with what is commonly termed the garden variety of entity.

As an example of the above:

RB has said that a lot of negs get attached to people who have experienced trauma of some kind because this can cause "cracks" or "holes" in ones aura. What happens then is you start to leak prana through these holes, which in turn can attract Negs just like sharks are attracted by blood in the water. It isn't because they only feed on "negative energy" or because they are called "Negs" it is because they pick on those who they see as easier meals, and a person can be an easy meal for a variety of different reasons, a lot of which don't include the person being "negative" and giving off "negative energy/emotions".

Getting rid of these core memories/core psyche constructs will result in a more streamlined and balanced individual which is harder to attack than someone who has multiple of these.

9th October 2006, 09:59 PM
Thier emotions are either too positive at the time of attack or too negative, or jumbled. Would you elaborate on this, Spectral? Am I right in assuming that when you say "too positive" or "too negative" you are referring to the importance of balance?

9th October 2006, 10:05 PM
Thier emotions are either too positive at the time of attack or too negative, or jumbled. With a neg victims the emotions and character is never streamlined and balanced either naturally or through introspective endeavors. This makes them, as you have said, not the easy target, so an attack will utterly fail and the neg will move on unless you aren't dealing with what is commonly termed the garden variety of entity.

That part is a little fuzzy for me. :?

Lordofthebunnies
9th October 2006, 10:26 PM
Hmm...if someone tries to act overly positive as a means of avoiding their inner anxieties, I can see how that might be a weakness.

Astral Exorcist
9th October 2006, 11:08 PM
Is there a difference between positive thinking and positive emotions?

What about positive energy are we making a mistake and misinterpreting it as positive thinking?

I think these are different in nature.

Im talking about postive raw astral energy are these connected to positive thinking?

Can someone please enlighten me.

What about immuture laughter? Is that positive. More like evil humour.

10th October 2006, 03:38 AM
Thier emotions are either too positive at the time of attack or too negative, or jumbled. Would you elaborate on this, Spectral? Am I right in assuming that when you say "too positive" or "too negative" you are referring to the importance of balance?

Yes and I am going to use AP's post to help me elaborate.


Is there a difference between positive thinking and positive emotions?

What about positive energy are we making a mistake and misinterpreting it as positive thinking?

I think these are different in nature.

Im talking about postive raw astral energy are these connected to positive thinking?

Can someone please enlighten me.

What about immuture laughter? Is that positive. More like evil humour.

There is definitely a difference in all of these. Positive energy as some like to call it comes from a combination of positive outlook, positive work, and positive thinking. Positive thinking in of itself was what I was refferring to. If you take someome stealing your money as simply just a lesson learned (and I suppose you could argue this is an outlook but this is usually just a forced process in my opinion,) then you are thinking far too positively and by ignoring the negative aspects of this you are missing out on the bigger picture and a way to keep this from happening again.



Thier emotions are either too positive at the time of attack or too negative, or jumbled. With a neg victims the emotions and character is never streamlined and balanced either naturally or through introspective endeavors. This makes them, as you have said, not the easy target, so an attack will utterly fail and the neg will move on unless you aren't dealing with what is commonly termed the garden variety of entity.

That part is a little fuzzy for me. :?

Hopefully the above helped, but if not what exactly was furry :?:

Dsmoke
10th October 2006, 03:48 AM
This is a very misunderstood concept in my own experience, my experiences with this are very different than how it is usually portrayed. Take the rape victim for example. These are usually attractive women who have fluanted a little bit or way too much, and either found themselves in a situation where they had been drugged at someone's home (not thier fualt,) or more commonly they were going down a back alley or similiar place where it was easy to take advantage of them. So, while technically the situation wasn't thier fault, (and addmittedly the above situations are very generalized and I am well aware that victims that do not fall under the above generalization certainly exist,) the blame game is much more complicated than it first appears.

I'm surprised you'd say this, Spec. I hope you check out the link CFTraveler posted. I'm not going to hijack this thread with a discussion of rape victims because that's an enormous can of worms that just doesn't belong on an astral projection forum, but please be aware that even with your disclaimer, those kinds of assumptions can really hurt someone who has been through such trauma.

10th October 2006, 04:02 AM
This is a very misunderstood concept in my own experience, my experiences with this are very different than how it is usually portrayed. Take the rape victim for example. These are usually attractive women who have fluanted a little bit or way too much, and either found themselves in a situation where they had been drugged at someone's home (not thier fualt,) or more commonly they were going down a back alley or similiar place where it was easy to take advantage of them. So, while technically the situation wasn't thier fault, (and addmittedly the above situations are very generalized and I am well aware that victims that do not fall under the above generalization certainly exist,) the blame game is much more complicated than it first appears.

I'm surprised you'd say this, Spec. I hope you check out the link CFTraveler posted. I'm not going to hijack this thread with a discussion of rape victims because that's an enormous can of worms that just doesn't belong on an astral projection forum, but please be aware that even with your disclaimer, those kinds of assumptions can really hurt someone who has been through such trauma.

You seem to be misunderstanding my stance here, and quite frankly that article above only supports it: as previously stated the blame game is much more complicated than it first appears. You might note I did not put fualt to the victim. It's far too complicated to simply say that. The events, quite frankly, should not have happened in the first place, and even describing that is complicated.

CFT and Dsmoke, this isn't about placing blame at either parties, it happens. If you want to hear a conclusion about how I feel about this it's this: You have to be carefull, but at the same time you have to take the bigger picture into account.

Dsmoke
10th October 2006, 04:05 AM
I can see what you're getting at, but I have another issue that has to do with the way other, less considerate people can interpret and use such words as justification. As I said, I'm not going to hijack this thread about something unrelated, so PM/IM me if you want to discuss it.

10th October 2006, 04:10 AM
[quote="Spectral Dragon":31cf3u14]Thier emotions are either too positive at the time of attack or too negative, or jumbled. With a neg victims the emotions and character is never streamlined and balanced either naturally or through introspective endeavors. This makes them, as you have said, not the easy target, so an attack will utterly fail and the neg will move on unless you aren't dealing with what is commonly termed the garden variety of entity.

That part is a little fuzzy for me. :?

Hopefully the above helped, but if not what exactly was furry :?:[/quote:31cf3u14]

lol, fuzzy, not furry. I instantly thought of my cat when you said that. :D

I think I understand what you explained using AP's post. However, what you meant in the bolded part above still eludes me.

This, in context with the sentance right before it, confuzzles me. It's probably me just not being terribly bright right now, lol.

----------------------------

About the rape analogy... I agree, it's not the best analogy to use, although I think I understand what you are trying to say. :)

I wonder if using the analogy of leaving one's doors unlocked might be better? While leaving one's doors unlocked does not make burglary legal, one should still take precautions if one wants to avoid this situation. Is it one's fault if they get robbed, even though they left their doors unlocked? Not really, they commited no crime. However, one should take into account the reality of the way the world works and recognize that there are people/things out there who would take advantage of this situation. So, if you don't want to get robbed, then lock your doors. Does that make sense?

10th October 2006, 04:12 AM
As a victim of rape, I have to say that I wasn't offended by Spectral's use of the term. I understood what he was trying to express. I think the problem in understanding came up with the use of the words, "Those are usually attractive women", which might have been better substituted with, "Sometimes those are attractive women..."

Either way, thanks for the compliment, Spectral. :lol: I am rather attractive, if I may say so. :P *joke* :lol: :lol:

Dsmoke
10th October 2006, 04:26 AM
[Spec and I are talking about this. I think 90% of us here know what he means and interpreted his words correctly. Now the other 10% had better not get any stupid ideas in your heads! :roll: ]

Patty, you know you have kicked that kind of traumatic experience to the curb when you can joke about it. As they say, humor heals :)

Now back to your regularly scheduled (and more relevant) debate ;)

CFTraveler
10th October 2006, 01:48 PM
Well, this is how I would have worded it:
'Rapists, like serial killers, at least the ones that are repeat offenders, usually target a specific type. Sometimes blondes, sometimes brown haired women that wear glasses, sometimes children for a specific type, you get the picture.
So when a rapist goes out to hunt for a victim, he/she will target someones that fits his preference, and sometimes stalks them, sometimes they just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Negs can be like that. Negativity will be easier for them to attach to a victim, because they probably already have aura cracks or will have a more satisfying reaction. Of course positive people will also 'taste good', if it's what that particular neg favors.'
That pretty much is the way I would have said it.

10th October 2006, 02:00 PM
That makes sense CF. My analogy of the door thing was to illustrate how I interpreted Spec's meaning, not trying to parallel the rape analogy (I was worried it might be interpreted that way).

I was trying to show that you can't be in la la land and overly or too positive, you have to look at the reality of the situation and examine the negative side of things and adjust your behavior accordingly if you want to avoid certain situations. I guess it's more of an example what can happen when one is thinking too positively. I hope that makes sense.

Tom
10th October 2006, 03:06 PM
This thread never should have existed, and has broken down into too many ideas mixed in all at once. I wish we would just remove the whole thing. I still think we haven't heard the story behind why it was created and that if we had just been able to get the details behind the original situation we would not have been drawn into more harmful speculation.

10th October 2006, 03:25 PM
...harmful speculation.

:shock: Speculation is harmful??

Personally, I welcome anything that makes me think, re-evaluate my position and/or challenges my beliefs. :) Didn't always though. :roll:

This thread has inspired me to think, and I consider that a good thing.

10th October 2006, 03:34 PM
Sometimes growing pains make you feel bad and depressed at first, but when you come out the other side, you are a lot stronger for it. So, I don't think it's as easy as saying anything that makes you feel down or depressed is negative. There are also things that make you feel good that aren't always positive, at least in the long run.

I do agree about getting lost in the details though. I think a balanced view is best. Too much focus on the bigger picture can screw you up just as much as too much focus on the details, imho.

Tom
10th October 2006, 04:13 PM
This is like the story of the king who brought in a group of blind people to examine an elephant. We still haven't seen the elephant so we are having to fight amongst ourselves about if it is like the tail, trunk, tusks, back, or legs.

No, speculation in itself is not harmful. If I thought otherwise I would not have wasted time and effort typing the word harmful in front of it. Setting all of us at each other's throats for no good reason is the problem.

Dsmoke
10th October 2006, 04:26 PM
This thread never should have existed, and has broken down into too many ideas mixed in all at once. I wish we would just remove the whole thing. I still think we haven't heard the story behind why it was created and that if we had just been able to get the details behind the original situation we would not have been drawn into more harmful speculation.

Tom, I think we can still have a decent conversation about this without knowing McArthur's motivations for posting it. Sometimes people aren't ready to share - maybe it is too painful to discuss or he hasn't fully worked through and understood the situation - yet it's still healing to be able to get other people's thoughts and opinions on a subject.

If there are too many topics here for your comfort, perhaps you could start a new thread addressing the one that interests you? We're trying to wind down the off-topic bit.

Dsmoke
10th October 2006, 04:29 PM
Setting all of us at each other's throats for no good reason is the problem.

And really, I hardly think we were at each other's throats. I merely made a dissenting comment, and then Spec and I took it offline (to discuss rationally and politely). We're still friends. Patty's joking around. CFT politely stated an alternate way to phrase things for future reference.

If you're worried that there are angry arguments going on, I can assure you that at least as far as I know, there aren't :)

10th October 2006, 04:41 PM
Some people have seen that elephant, lol. :shock:

10th October 2006, 04:44 PM
[quote="Spectral Dragon":3996mshp]Thier emotions are either too positive at the time of attack or too negative, or jumbled. With a neg victims the emotions and character is never streamlined and balanced either naturally or through introspective endeavors. This makes them, as you have said, not the easy target, so an attack will utterly fail and the neg will move on unless you aren't dealing with what is commonly termed the garden variety of entity.

That part is a little fuzzy for me. :?

Hopefully the above helped, but if not what exactly was furry :?:

lol, fuzzy, not furry. I instantly thought of my cat when you said that. :D

I think I understand what you explained using AP's post. However, what you meant in the bolded part above still eludes me.

This, in context with the sentance right before it, confuzzles me. It's probably me just not being terribly bright right now, lol. [/quote:3996mshp]

I hope this question didn't get missed. :roll:

10th October 2006, 04:47 PM
Tom said:

This thread never should have existed, and has broken down into too many ideas mixed in all at once. I wish we would just remove the whole thing. I still think we haven't heard the story behind why it was created and that if we had just been able to get the details behind the original situation we would not have been drawn into more harmful speculation. If I understand McArthur correctly, he was originally posting because a number of people (including myself) have brought up ideas about positive thinking and love and light are all that's necessary to overcome neg attachment. Those who have major problems often have a different viewpoint and are sometimes hurt by the insinuations that they aren't positive or working hard enough to rid themselves of negs.

This has been an ongoing debate since the beginnings of this website, as well as even further back in websites Robert was a part of. I believe that it is such an important topic, and one where we all can learn a lot from each other, that it needs a place of prominence. If it occasionally needs moderating or clarification for understanding, I'm perfectly ok with that. It's a topic that engenders a lot of emotion in many people, and for good reason. Lives are highly impacted by it. Robert is a great believer in psychic defense (hence the book "Practical Psychic Defense") and teaching/learning ways to help. He places great importance in the subject, as do many on this website.

This thread will remain a Sticky in this forum. If anyone is not comfortable with the discussions in this thread, then I would suggest not reading it. There are hundreds of other topics of interest, that it shouldn't be a problem with this one thread.

Since Tom believes this thread needs an explanation, then I will copy and past part of this post into McArthur's first post. Much hurt and much healing has come about because of the ability of people to clash with their different viewpoints, learn from it, and move on to healing. My wish is that we will receive much healing from each other with threads like these.

10th October 2006, 05:06 PM
I think you and I are on the same boat, lol. :) Agreed, it does help to step back a bit and re-focus to make sure we're on the same page.

You know, with a subject like this, it's hard because it does bring up so many sub-topics. I'm finding that things don't fit into the nice, neat little boxes in my mind like they used to and aren't subject to tidy little explainations anymore. Just when I think I've got something pegged, an exception happens or a point is brought up that makes me rethink everything. But that's another boat on an entirely different ocean... :D (or is it?)

10th October 2006, 05:13 PM
I am assuming that this thread will get pretty long. Feel free to take it off topic if an important point needs to be addressed. Try to steer it back to McArthur's original point when it gets too off topic. We need to honor his original reason for posting.

If another topic becomes of great interest because of this thread, start a new thread and link it in this one.

10th October 2006, 05:19 PM
Mc told me yesterday that he will respond when he has time to catch up and read all the posts. (That could be awhile at the rate this thing is moving) :lol:

Tom
10th October 2006, 05:19 PM
It sounds to me like we are discussing whether McArthur deserves to be attacked by negs and there was the traditional side argument about if rape victims had dressed differently, stayed home after dark, or just taken a different road ... *sigh* As I said in the beginning, the way we respond to a neg attack should be a separate thread from ways we can work to reduce the chances of being attacked by negs. That way we can avoid being accused of playing "blame the victim" by suggesting responses. I still think that when being attacked by negs it makes as much sense to fight the neg alone as it does to try to set a broken bone by yourself. The important thing is to avoid doing things which will make the situation worse, and that is harder than it sounds, because it goes against normal reactions under such circumstances. When I was hit by a car and my right thigh was broken, it was obvious to everyone else that the thing to do was to hold still. My leg was shorter and wider than usual and sitting at a funny angle. My first reaction was to try to stand up to continue on my way and if someone hadn't held me down I could have really made a mess of things.

10th October 2006, 05:23 PM
The problem with that, Tom, is that some of us believe that the way to "respond" to a neg attack and the way to avoid one have the same solution. This forum allows for differences of opinion to be voiced, as long as it's kind and polite. It's in the "Possession" forum where debates aren't allowed. Thus, the need for two forums.

Dsmoke
10th October 2006, 05:25 PM
If I understand McArthur's original point, he was saying that we should not automatically assume that negs only attack "negative" people, and that many positive-thinkers with good energy get attacked, too.

So that is the boat I'm in. I'm not going to say much in this discussion because I have more to learn than to contribute, but that is the perspective I'm viewing this from.

10th October 2006, 05:26 PM
My intent is to simply explore this subject further and to try to see things from other perspectives - that's the broad intent.

I do want to understand the why's & wherefore's of neg attacks in greater depth. I do agree with McArthur that not all neg attacks are indicitive of the victim being overtly or inherently negative and that simply focusing on love and light will end all neg problems. Spec brought up a very intriguing point that they can attack when someone is too positive, that is definitely something I had never considered before. So, to learn and understand, that's what I'm after. :)

10th October 2006, 05:28 PM
Dsmoke, you are right on point. We are all positive/negative thinkers, and we all do get attacked. It's just a matter of degree. It would be fairly impossible for someone to be completely and totally a positive person, and conversely, to be a completely and totally negative person. We are all a mixture and working towards a better "us".

McArthur
10th October 2006, 08:05 PM
Woaah, lots of replies here. Firstly I want to say that I had no malicious alterior motives in posting this thread so I can't understand what these suspicions are about. In fact it is kind of upsetting that people have those views of me as someone to be suspicious about and I would certainly like to understand where that is coming from. I don't see any other threads where people are asking what is the motivation behind posting it, so what's that all about? I stated in my first post what my intention was, and that is I hope some information may come out that could be beneficial to neg victims. That is my main reason for posting on these forums, period.

As Painter said this topic has been ongoing for a long time, and Robert has entered such discussions himself on many occasions. My intent on starting this thread was not to "set people at each others throats" at all (I'm certainly not responsible for other peoples posts and this is only my second post), I can't understand where these impressions are coming from, or why.

I haven't replied before now because I have just been too busy doing other things. Sometimes I have lots of times to make posts and other times I don't. I want to reply to various points brought up but will have to do so in my own time. I'll try to reply to some later tonight. I could have spent the time writing this post on replying to actual on-topic points but I felt it necessary to at least answer some of the "why did he post it" type questions, hopefully we can drop this now and move on to discussing the topic at hand, both politely and calmly.

10th October 2006, 08:20 PM
Please note that there was only one person who questioned the purpose of this thread. Thanks for clarifying your position, Mc. Looking forward to hearing more from you.

10th October 2006, 09:17 PM
It sounds to me like we are discussing whether McArthur deserves to be attacked by negs and there was the traditional side argument about if rape victims had dressed differently, stayed home after dark, or just taken a different road ... *sigh* As I said in the beginning, the way we respond to a neg attack should be a separate thread from ways we can work to reduce the chances of being attacked by negs. That way we can avoid being accused of playing "blame the victim" by suggesting responses. I still think that when being attacked by negs it makes as much sense to fight the neg alone as it does to try to set a broken bone by yourself. The important thing is to avoid doing things which will make the situation worse, and that is harder than it sounds, because it goes against normal reactions under such circumstances. When I was hit by a car and my right thigh was broken, it was obvious to everyone else that the thing to do was to hold still. My leg was shorter and wider than usual and sitting at a funny angle. My first reaction was to try to stand up to continue on my way and if someone hadn't held me down I could have really made a mess of things.

Ok, I wasn't going to say anything before now, but TOM, you clearly are reading into matters wrongly here. There is little to no actuall dissent here. We are not trying to play the blaming game either, we are simply trying to discuss the dynamics of which people typically get chosen for attack by negative entities. Such discussion can seem to be bashing and such at first glance, but take a look at what is actually being said and not what might or might not be hinted at.

I for one certainly agree with McArthur that this point can and should be discussed as I believe that it can and will open avenues to figuring out what to eliminate in people who are attacked psychicly.

Tom
10th October 2006, 09:27 PM
It would have been a lot easier just to have said that the point was to discuss reasons why negs attack the people they do.

Please note that I would make a terrible fluff bunny (if you haven't already noted this).

Something to consider is that negs have a tendency to leave instructions on a person, tags of a sort, which make it easier for the next neg to move in for a time. It is important to get rid of these tags and any core images that the negs may have used or left behind.

10th October 2006, 09:33 PM
Tom said:

Please note that I would make a terrible fluff bunny (if you haven't already noted this). Yeh, noticed that, Tom. :lol:

10th October 2006, 09:46 PM
Something to consider is that negs have a tendency to leave instructions on a person, tags of a sort, which make it easier for the next neg to move in for a time. It is important to get rid of these tags.

Just throwing out an idea out there. :)

Might be good also to fix the issues that the tags list, instead of just getting rid of the actual tag. For example, one of my issues is trust. This issue gets taken advantage of time and time again. For me, the real fix is to try to fix this issue within, through introspection and soul mirroring. :) Boy, I sure would like to know what exactly is on my tag, lol. I guess one can find that out by just paying enough attention to one's emotions/thoughts preceding and during an attack. :roll:

11th October 2006, 01:19 AM
Is that what you meant Tom? Am I being a wee bit too literal again??

Tom
11th October 2006, 01:37 AM
My concern was mostly with getting rid of the tags rather than understanding what the directions were for the next attack. It is true, though, that it probably had something to do with the mood that I was in immediately before the incident, my first real experience of what a neg is like. I went about clearing away all the energies and implants which were not my own and any of my own creations which were no longer for my highest good. Then I spent some time trying to do core image removal.

11th October 2006, 01:50 AM
I see. I don't know exactly how it works, but, it seems to me that even if you could remove this 'tag', it would come right back as soon as another neg made a successful attempt at breaching your defenses (both energetic and psychological). The only real permanent and lasting solution, imo, is to correct the problems that are listed on the tag. :) Which are really for your benefit anyway and lead to further spiritual growth, just another way to get there I suppose.

As Palehorse said in another thread, negs can be looked at as teachers through opposition. Poopy, creepy, unpleasant teachers, but, every thing that happens offers an opportunity to learn. I find this is a much more empowering POV of negs and substantially diminishes the fear & victim mindset.

Tom
11th October 2006, 02:09 AM
That's what working with core images was for. I knew that my mood had been bad enough, but the neg made it much more intense than it had been and made a map of where the weakest spots were in my aura. It turned out that I had been neglecting the back of my heart chakra. The neg dug in there. It felt like a crab leg and made me want to throw up.

11th October 2006, 02:12 AM
When did you experience this attack Tom? What was it like for you? Are you OK?

Tom
11th October 2006, 02:30 AM
It has been a couple of years now.

While it lasted it made me want to throw up. It was nauseating. It really did feel like an over-sized crab leg had pushed its way into my back and down toward my stomach. The mood I was in before, self-pity, had been driven out completely by the shock of it. Immediately before that, though, the negative mood I was in suddenly intensified to the point where I did not even recognize it. That seemed to be the way it got in, by using that mood to fish for connected core images and weaknesses in my aura.

It only took a few days to recover afterward. It was where I got the idea that asking for help during and after an attack like that is important. If it had been more subtle, I would not have recognized it as an attack and the neg would have been able to solidly establish a position. It might have dragged out for a very long period of time.

11th October 2006, 02:46 AM
Ah, ok, had me worried there for a moment... Glad you're OK. :)

Dsmoke
11th October 2006, 04:38 AM
Yikes, Tom, I'm glad you're ok.

McArthur
14th October 2006, 07:10 AM
Hello Pilar,


Cultivating states of love and light aid in repairing tears in the aura, so that is a good practice to undergo when healing.

Perhaps you could be clearer here on what you mean by "states of love and light" so we can avoid any misunderstandings and how these states repair ones aura?


Ultimately, focusing on healing work to repair the aura, raising energy and strengthening one's core and boundaries are going to aid one in recovering and regaining personal integrity more than focusing on negs, neg-fighting, neg-talk etc, which may just take the person deeper into neg involvement.

OK so the "states of love and light" really means to do energy work then? It's just that one can do energy work to try and heal ones aura using NEW without being in a state of "love" or "light" (I'm unsure what a state of "Light" is, I'm not being pedantic so please don't take it that way, it is my attempt at making things clearer).

And the latter part you said I have to agree with about not focusing on the negs, even Robert suggests this also. There is a saying by Nietzsche: "When you stare long into an abyss, the abyss also stares back at you." The problem, of course, is that many neg victims have no choice but to concentrate on finding a solution to their problem, whish isn't always as easy as to just "not think about it". When you constantly hear voices, have muscle twitches night and day, feel them working around in your energy body, causing arguments amongst family and friends, then what is one to do, just ignore it? True, if one takes one mind off it for a while then things are not as bad, but they are still there within the persons aura. Once a neg has full attachment it isn't going to just "go away" if you ignore it and not think about it; if you want to rid yourself of them you have no choice but to read up on ways to do so and to concentrate on ways to fight them. Doing anything else is akin to putting ones head in the sand like an ostrich.


I think the negativity is a factor though. You are saying that negs create negative thoughts in your mind. So refusing to entertain those negative mind-states is also a defense against negs. Replacing them instead with feelings of well-being and peace, and self-love, are a form of shielding and healing.

The negativity is a factor in that they use it to wear down their prey as a form of mind-game. You say that "refusing to entertain those negative mind-states is also a defense against negs" which only shows you have never knowingly been possessed by one. It isn't a case of "not entertaining" such thoughts as though the victim has a choice, those thoughts are projected into the victims mind overlaying their own normal thoughts. It is extremely hard to describe this process unless you have experienced it first hand (and know you have).

But to get to your point about the "negativity" this isn't the main thing with these demons (I'm beginning to think the term "neg" isn't so good); you could be feeling hyper and happy but still being fed off by them. This is what I mean when I say there is a misconception about "negs" only feeding off negativity. They feed off ENERGY, and it just so happens that a blazing argument releases LOTS of energy. So does an orgasm, which is why there are negs that prey on people sexually when they are dreaming. Are we going to suggest that an orgasm is negative? Because that is what a Succubus feeds on.


I mean, the Tibetan monks have been doing this for a long time, so I don't think they are all wrong about this.

You're aware of the teachings in the Tibetan book of the Dead about the "Hungry Ghosts" then?


I think the term "karma" has also been extremely misunderstood in the West, because it just got merged with the Judeao-Christian mindset that there is a big Male God up in the sky meting out rewards and punishments. Karma is not reward or punishment. Karma is simply a law of this reality, which would be more accurately translated as 'consequence'. Based on a philosophy that states we are not operating as separate entities within a spacious universe, but rather all parts of One larger organism, karma refers to the nature of Oneness.

Well, I think I agree in a sense, but my main point is the same as yours in that neg victims shouldn't think they are experiencing "bad karma" as if they have done something wrong and need to be punished. And as far as the other version of karma goes, well, I have no evidence that shows it to be anything other than an unproven belief. I certainly don't think karma goes from one life to the next, as that would be unjust and stupid, and I believe the Universe to be more perfect than that.


It is like gravity, if you drop a glass of water, it is going to fall. It doesn't matter if you meant to, feel sorry for it, it was an accident, etc. Once that action is released, it has a consequence that ripples out into the world. Since you are moving through this reality in many incarnations, the ripples of your past actions are still carrying forward.

OK maybe I shouldn't have mentioned Karma as I see this taking us astray somewhat, but I'll say again that I think what you are stating here is merely an unproven belief of yours. I think this idea stems from people wanting the Universe to be less predatorial and wild than it is; it is a human thing to want things to be less chaotic and more orderly. Noone likes to see injustice go unpunished and because there is obviously a lot of injustice in our world our philosophers dream up belief-systems that will mete out justice to wrong-doers in, if not the after-life (christian hell), then the "next" life or incarnation. People seem to be treating spirituality as though they are Physical Laws like gravity but it just isn't like that I don't think. Does the Lion come back as a Zebra for every Zebra it eats? I don't think so myself, and why would God treat us worse than a Lion?


This doesn't necessarily translate into being 'punished' for 'past sins', but rather, recognizes that every situation in the present is arising from past events (of everyone, not just you).

But I don't think this is true though. Sure some things have cause and effect but I'm not going to think I'm being eaten by negs because I may have stolen a loaf in a past life - I mean come on!?


Your current set of circumstances has arisen as a result of the past choices of everyone who has gone before that is affecting you now.

No, my current set of circumstances is that I live in a predatorial Universe where I am not at the top of the food chain. I am being realistic, you are spouting unproven belief-system platitides.


Robert Bruce does refer to generational neg involvements/contracts, so in that case, neg attacks can be karmic, in the sense that you may be having to deal with something that was created by someone before you.

Robert had this to say in a recent post:

"Update to PPSD: If two people are in close proximity, you are probably aware that negs in one person can and will interfere with the other. Further to this, if two people share a bed, and one experiences neg interference in energy body, eg, pains and fluttering in feet, this can and will often transfer into the feet of the other person. The other person can then experience ongoing neg interference. However, if this person is not suitable material as a neg host, then the interference will progressively weaken and eventually fall away over a few days or weeks. "

What this means is that negs can travel from one person to another like a virus. If it runs in a family it isn't because of some "karma", it is pure and simply because a neg finds it easier to transfer to those people who are closer to its resident host.


I think if I'm understanding you correctly, what you're really wanting people to understand is we're all susceptible to attack, and it doesn't mean you are a weak, negative or unspiritual person. and you are requesting some compassion and empathy rather than judgment toward people who are dealing with neg attacks.
Yes, you have that exactly right! But I also wanted a discussion about it to try and see if we can reason things through.


Sorry it is taking me so long to make posts, I'm pretty busy.

Pilar
14th October 2006, 03:45 PM
Hello McArthur,

What I am seeing here is that you and I are coming from different points of view at this. That's all that's really going on here.

I am a person who has experienced alot of neg attacks, since childhood, including possessions. I battle with PTSD. I have had my sexual energy fed on in dreams. I am also a student of buddhist practices, and that is my approach to my own healing.

Yes, I have read the Tibetan Book of the Dead and am aware of the Buddhist description of the different dimensions including the realm of the hungry ghosts.

I have tears in my own aura and I have been working to repair them.

I have been healing within this paradigm for 10 years, and it is working for me.

Some of the practices are: cultivating states of happiness and joy, being mindful and present in the moment, practicing mind-control techniques, sitting meditation, practicing compassion toward all beings, being tolerant of life as a situation.

These comments by you:
"-Once a neg has full attachment it isn't going to just "go away" if you ignore it and not think about it; if you want to rid yourself of them you have no choice but to read up on ways to do so and to concentrate on ways to fight them. Doing anything else is akin to putting ones head in the sand like an ostrich."

-You say that "refusing to entertain those negative mind-states is also a defense against negs" which only shows you have never knowingly been possessed by one."

-"You could be feeling hyper and happy but still being fed off by them."

-" I certainly don't think karma goes from one life to the next, as that would be unjust and stupid"

"I think what you are stating here is merely an unproven belief of yours."

"I'm not going to think I'm being eaten by negs because I may have stolen a loaf in a past life - I mean come on!?"

-"I am being realistic, you are spouting unproven belief-system platitides."

These comments by you do not meet my needs for respect, both for myself, my own experiences, my own healing path and my own choice of spiritual paradigm. You are ridiculing a belief system you do not even understand. It is your choice to choose what path you take in healing, and I don’t think you represent Robert Bruce well by ridiculing and insulting mine.

Pilar

EDIT: PS - I have been trying to put my finger on what it is exactly. I don't feel safe expressing my views on this forum, as I seem to get regularly 'pounced on' for some reason. I think I have concluded that my point of view just doesn't belong on this particular forum. Thank you. *exits*

14th October 2006, 08:42 PM
This is a good topic to explore in debate, but it needs to be friendly and respectful as we are discussing people's belief systems which can be a very touchy subject.

It's hard, sometimes, to have our beliefs questioned. It's important that everyone keep an open mind and not take other people's comments and questions too personally as well as to try to make sure our points of debate do not come across as personal attacks.

McArthur
15th October 2006, 03:27 PM
It appears my post was taken as a personal attack but that was not my intention, so apologies if it comes over as confrontational. I am done with this thread.

McArthur
15th October 2006, 07:50 PM
If you quote a person word for word and refute each word they say some people might take that as 'personal'. Whether or not you are done with this thread please pay other people's thoughts the same amount of respect you would like people to pay to yours.

You started an interesting thread McArthur, then you left for a while to do whatever important things need doing, in the meantime various ideas were passed back and forth while you were gone. Then you come back and disagree with most of what only one person said. By singling out one person out of everyone who posted here, can't you understand that it would have seemed 'personal'?

I was replying to posts in the order they were posted and only had time to respond to Pilar so far. I understand now that some of what I said could be taken personally because, as you said, I was quoting her in my posts. So I just want to make it clear that I was also adding thoughts that came to me as I was writing so some of it is not exactly in direct response to Pilar. The part where I question various beliefs is because I strongly use Roberts "Belief-System Cleanse" as a countermeasure against negs.

http://www.astraldynamics.com/home/unor ... eanse.html (http://www.astraldynamics.com/home/unorderedtemp/281-belief-system-cleanse.html) (updated link- CF 2010)

"The method, if it can be called such a thing, is absolute honesty with your own true self. Know yourself, and to your own self be true. Discard everything not gained via personal experience. Do not take anything as read. Question everything and find out for yourself by doing and experimenting."

[.....]

"Ever since then I have argued and questioned just about everything. I take nothing as read. Because of this, most people have found me disagreeable, because I question their heartfelt beliefs. I did and still do this as nicely as possible, but it still seems to offend people. I do not mean to offend."

And neither do I mean to offend, I'll re-read my post and look to see which parts of it may have been taken as being openly offensive and attempt to word my posts more carefully in future.


You could apologise if it seemed that way, make your true intention clearer and everything will be fine, but by stamping your foot and storming out of the thread you appear to give the impression that 'if you won't immediately accept what I am saying, I'm not going to bother at all'.

I try to understand. but you always get so angry before we have a real chance to get to the heart of what you want to say, and I don't know why that is.
I have received a complaint via PM from a moderator claiming I am "bullying people". I just feel that there is an air of antagonism about this whole thread, from questioning my reasons for posting it to now being taken to task for writing my own thoughts as though I am intentionally making personal attacks. I'm just tired of having to keep defending myself.

Pilar
16th October 2006, 03:01 PM
I think that in alot of ways, it comes down to violent and non-violent communication. Using words like 'stupid' to describe another person's point of view--now why would anyone feel friendly or open to you when you have spoken like that? Saying "I am being realistic while you are spouting unproven belief platitudes" is mean. If you can't express yourself without attacking other people, then there is a problem in your method of communication and you need to seriously examine it. http://www.cnvc.org/

It isn't about me being oversensitive, which is another judgment, it's about basic respect on the forum, and about speaking in a non-violent fashion.

If you have a need to be listened to, heard, and understood, the likelihood of you getting those needs met decreases if you are speaking in a violent manner. We all have the needs for respect, to be heard, to feel listened to, to be accepted, to feel there is a space for our voice. Try recognizing that the person on the other end of your post is a human being with the same needs as you. Maybe you will find yourself speaking differently.

I'm sorry but I don't believe Robert Bruce has the patent on truth, but is only one man's perspective based on one man's life experiences, belief system, and interpretation of reality. I do respect it, and I came here to learn what his perspective is, but I'm not thrilled about having it shoved down my throat and having my own explorations devalued as if I am an idiot.

I've chosen to leave the forum because it is not meeting my own needs for acceptance, space to have my own exploration and safety to speak out as my own voice, nor tolerance for my method of spiritual growth which happens to be different than the dominant view here.

Thank you for your time, and for reading what I had to say. Pilar

CFTraveler
16th October 2006, 03:26 PM
I'm sorry you're leaving, but

I'm sorry but I don't believe Robert Bruce has the patent on truth, but is only one man's perspective based on one man's life experiences, belief system, and interpretation of reality. And I'm not thrilled about having it shoved down my throat and having my own explorations devalued as if I am an idiot. When did we do that?

16th October 2006, 04:35 PM
This is all sounding really familiar. :oops: Anyone care to do a search on Nikpalj's thread about needing help, and you will see something similar happened there, thanks to me getting my panties all in a wad about my beliefs about love and light :shock: being debated.

Well, since then, after much pain and self-intropsection, I have come to respect McArthur's point of view. And, to agree with it.

Having said that, I also agree completely with Pilar's point of view. No, it's not impossible. The two views can live side by side in perfect harmony. It all depends on what's happening to you at the time, and the best way to approach it for you, personally.

At one point, I barely even believed in negs or demons. Yes, I believed in negative energy and negative dead people hanging around giving people trouble. McArthur's style is not always the most gentle, but, thank God it wasn't gentle, for me. He taught me a lot. And, it took me almost literally getting slapped upside the head before I would move past my stubborn views. I really didn't understand, because I really hadn't experienced it. That is what he is trying to say...it's difficult to understand if you haven't directly experienced it.

If you have directly experienced it, and found a way to deal with it that works for you that is different from McArthur's experience, then it has a place here. We need to learn from each other. If anything, I've learned that. And, that's what love is...giving each other the space to share what worked for them, because it might touch someone's life. We don't individually have the full puzzle. We each have a piece of it. When we put it all together, it makes one heck of a completed puzzle picture!!! Being closed to anyone's views but our own won't allow us to get that puzzle moving towards completion.

Pilar's views, in many, many, many ways, reflect my own. But, I have come to respect and agree with many, many, many of McArthurs. Let's all work on crawling out of our own self-imposed boxes of beliefs and take a peek into someone else's. You just might find yourself falling into a gigantic box without sides that will astound you with the greater reality. Anyway, that's what I'm working on...kicking down those box walls. Because, whenever I do, I'm amazed once again. Personally, I like this thread, and I think it's healthy.

Being a theatrical person myself (read "over reactive"), can we please leave off the stomping out of threads on our high horse? Yeh, I've done it too many times, myself. It's ok, it's a good way to get your point across, but then, you miss the opportunity to learn. Come on back, leave out the stupid remarks, get over being offended by, and taking personally, every single little sentence that you feel is aimed directly at you. By the way, another thing I learned the REALLY hard way...when you take something really personally, and get insulted, it's usually something that needs to be worked on in your life. God, am I ever going to learn the easy way?? :shock:

16th October 2006, 04:43 PM
I agree Painter - it's good to look at why something somebody said or did caused a particular reaction in ourselves. My particular method is to start by asking "How did that make me feel?", when I come up with an answer, I then ask "Why?", and keep asking why until I get to the heart of the matter. Most times, it comes down to some kind of internal fear created by ego. :roll:

CFTraveler
16th October 2006, 04:48 PM
PHG wrote:
We need to learn from each other. If anything, I've learned that. And, that's what love is...giving each other the space to share what worked for them, because it might touch someone's life.

Amen to that.

Pilar
16th October 2006, 04:52 PM
I'm sorry you're leaving, but

I'm sorry but I don't believe Robert Bruce has the patent on truth, but is only one man's perspective based on one man's life experiences, belief system, and interpretation of reality. And I'm not thrilled about having it shoved down my throat and having my own explorations devalued as if I am an idiot. When did we do that?

You didn't, CFT, nor did PHG, or Scymi--honestly, I felt that was the way McArthur presented his point of view, that is, with intolerance for me and for what I was trying to say when I was doing my best to explain my point of view, and this is something I've encountered on this forum at least 3 times in different threads on this forum. It doesn't give me any space, and as part of my own healing from my own wounding experiences, I desperately need some space for my voice and my process, so I'm going to try to find some space for myself in my life, some community where I fit in a little better. That's all. Blessings. Pilar

16th October 2006, 05:00 PM
I see where you're coming from, Pilar. I respect your decision and your process. :D

Best of luck to you and maybe check back in once in a while?

McArthur
16th October 2006, 05:40 PM
EDIT: PS – I have been trying to put my finger on what it is exactly. I don't feel safe expressing my views on this forum, as I seem to get regularly 'pounced on' for some reason. I think I have concluded that my point of view just doesn't belong on this particular forum. Thank you.

I am sorry that you feel as though I pounced on you or that I had picked out your post to solely concentrate on your beliefs, this honestly and truly was not my intention. As I said in a previous post I had decided to reply to posts in order and have only got around to responding to yours so far, that is all. And as far as some of the comments below:



“You say that ‘refusing to entertain those negative mind-states is also a defense against negs’ which only shows you have never knowingly been possessed by one.”

I made an assumption here and obviously wasn't thinking clearly, so I apologize. It is just that I am used to people stating things regarding negs who have not knowingly had such experiences and your comment reminded me of similar things said, sometimes in unkindly ways. This is not your fault and I was in error.


“You could be feeling hyper and happy but still being fed off by them.”

I don't see what is wrong with saying this?


“I certainly don't think karma goes from one life to the next, as that would be unjust and stupid”

I didn't mean to call you stupid by saying this or for it to be offensive, just a bad choice of wording on my part. An alternative would be "as that would be unjust and illogical" because what would be the point of the Universe knowingly causing more suffering without the person knowing the reasons for it?


“I think what you are stating here is merely an unproven belief of yours.”

I wasn't attacking you here I was stating my opinion, if you felt I was being openly offensive I didn't mean it that way. I am beginning to see how hard it can be to get the meaning of someones intention behind their words without being able to see their face. Many argumants get started due to words being taken the wrong way, which is why I am attempting to communicate more clearly now.

As I have tried to explain I tend to examine all beliefs very strongly because it has taken me an exceedingly long time to clear my mind of the dross I had accumilated in my life and still am working on that. And believe me (a pun?) I have had some very strange beliefs in my time, like the one where I believed this neg pestering me was my "spirit guide", for instance. That belief is what got me into most of this trouble to begin with, so you might see why some beliefs can indeed be bad for us. I have found that negs do, and will, use various beliefs against their vcitms so this is why I have a tendency to question when people state certain beliefs regarding the discussion of negs and are stating things that can not be proven. If this wasn't a discussion about negs I would feel no need to question your beliefs as it is none of my business.


“I'm not going to think I'm being eaten by negs because I may have stolen a loaf in a past life - I mean come on!?”

Again I'm not sure why this was seen to be offensive.


“I am being realistic, you are spouting unproven belief-system platitides.”

Yep, I went a bit overboard with this one so again I apologise.


These comments by you do not meet my needs for respect, both for myself, my own experiences, my own healing path and my own choice of spiritual paradigm. You are ridiculing a belief system you do not even understand. It is your choice to choose what path you take in healing, and I don’t think you represent Robert Bruce well by ridiculing and insulting mine.

It wasn't my intention to come across as ridiculing so again apologies if it seems that way, my intention was to strongly question these beliefs rather than ridicule. I think perhaps I have spent far too many years in heated debates on Usenet where at times it is tooth, nail and claw so I need to try and tone things down on here. As Painter has said I'm not known for being subtle or too tactful which is something I am having to work on. :|

16th October 2006, 05:53 PM
Well said McArthur. *nod of respect*

Agreed. :)

16th October 2006, 07:49 PM
I have a couple of more comments. One, for Pilar. I would hope that you could find it in your heart to hang around a while longer. I'm creating the new forums today, where I think you would be able to help a lot of people if you chose to post there. If not, then, we wish you only blessings.

Secondly, to McArthur. It seems we have both matured a lot through our trials and tribulations. Your last post warms my heart. About the karma thing, you might want to consider that some of us have actually had the experience of it's reality. Just as your experiences with negs have been very real to you, I've had some major, major experiences that have lead me to my beliefs/knowings about karma and how it works. One karmic experience, in particular, literally saved my life. I've posted about it, but I don't think you've read it.

It would be unjust if some God/deity forced horrible things on us. My experience is that we have chosen these things for ourselves, as experiences to evolve our soul. To name a few of the, ehem, experiences I've chosen for myself in agreement with those I love, to evolve my soul and theirs...rape, my son having leukemia twice, my first husband walking out on us during that time, the suicide of my father, the death of my daughter, to name a few. I've gained understanding of those experiences and how they've evolved me, as well as taken control of my life by changing my viewpoint from seeing myself as a victim of these horrific things, to seeing them for the incredible experiences of learning and love that they've taught me. And, that they were decisions I made for myself long before I incarnated this time around. I am in control, I am not a victim any longer, no matter what my experiences may look like. It's very empowering. I think that's what Pilar was trying to get across. Not to force anyone else to believe it, but to help those who are open to hearing it. If it goes against what you believe, that's ok. But, beliefs are fluid, and change with time. Someday, you may come to believe in karma. If not, then you have chosen a different path that is just as valid as anyone else's. That's the beauty of it...we are all right. :D

20th October 2006, 04:50 AM
[quote="Spectral Dragon":3hqr7yyk]Thier emotions are either too positive at the time of attack or too negative, or jumbled. With a neg victims the emotions and character is never streamlined and balanced either naturally or through introspective endeavors. This makes them, as you have said, not the easy target, so an attack will utterly fail and the neg will move on unless you aren't dealing with what is commonly termed the garden variety of entity.

That part is a little fuzzy for me. :?

Hopefully the above helped, but if not what exactly was furry :?:

lol, fuzzy, not furry. I instantly thought of my cat when you said that. :D

I think I understand what you explained using AP's post. However, what you meant in the bolded part above still eludes me.

This, in context with the sentance right before it, confuzzles me. It's probably me just not being terribly bright right now, lol.

I hope this question didn't get missed. :roll:[/quote:3hqr7yyk]

Apolagies for the lateness of this response.

A streamlined and/or balanced individual is much harder for a neg to deal with. Since the individual in question has dealt with past trauma/ current issues and is at peace with himself, and because a negative entity normally needs such inner turmoil to latch onto, then these kinds of individuals are much harder for the neg to hit and thus a harder target. The smart negs will usually just find an easier target to latch onto.

McArthur
20th October 2006, 05:41 AM
A streamlined and/or balanced individual is much harder for a neg to deal with. Since the individual in question has dealt with past trauma/ current issues and is at peace with himself, and because a negative entity normally needs such inner turmoil to latch onto, then these kinds of individuals are much harder for the neg to hit and thus a harder target. The smart negs will usually just find an easier target to latch onto.

I agree that someone balanced is much harder for negs to unbalance (the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram (LBRP) is designed to balance a persons psyche for this reason), but I'm not so sure about the trauma/issues part. I also don't think this makes such persons immune to attack, look at all of Robert's attacks as an example? Hasn't he said that those who are evolving spiritually (so supposedly with less issues than most) will attract more of this kind of neg attention (*see note)? I remember him saying that during some of his higher mystical experiences anyone in his house would experience heightened neg attention because they were attracted by all the spiritual energy being generated. So we have an example right there that negs aren't just attracted by a persons issues or negativity. I think a large amount of neg trouble is because people are 'lighting up' on the Astral and attracting attention from feeder types. You don't have to have trauma or issues to light up on the Astral, most drugs will do that to you, for instance (which is why there are so many drug casualties in Asylums and LSd has been linked to the onset of Schizophrenia etc).

I also agree that negs do attach to traumas, but this is just one way they operate, it just makes things easier for them to mind-control, whereas some aren't after mind-control but to feed on energy. Robert Bruce has worked with many babies and children with neg trouble and most are far too young IMO for them all to have been suffering from traumas.

Robert says that the feet are our weakest point and I don't think this has anything to do with traumas of the mind, just like a leech doesn't need you to be feeling depressed to suck your blood. Please don't take this personally, it is just that I really do strongly believe we need to wake up to the fact that we live in a predatorial Universe (as Carlos Castaneda said) and that we have Inorganic predators that are much like any physical ones (Lions, Sharks, mosquitos etc). In other words it isn't all about a persons state of mind (trauma, depression, anger, negativity) that attracts negs. I guess what I am disagreeing with is where you say "a negative entity normally needs such inner turmoil to latch onto" as when my problems started I was the happiest and friendliest person you could meet - seriously! A Succubus doesn't need its victim to have "issues" it just comes along and stimulates the base chakra until it strobes, feeds on the orgasm, and away it goes (usually).

*Note: It is because of this lighting up Astrally that beginners of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn were given certain ritual exercises such as the LBRP and Middle Pillar Exercise as they were designed to build up an Astral Shield around the Neophyte because they knew there was this problem of spiritual work attracting the denizens of the lower astral like moths are attracted to flame.

20th October 2006, 05:57 AM
A streamlined and/or balanced individual is much harder for a neg to deal with. Since the individual in question has dealt with past trauma/ current issues and is at peace with himself, and because a negative entity normally needs such inner turmoil to latch onto, then these kinds of individuals are much harder for the neg to hit and thus a harder target. The smart negs will usually just find an easier target to latch onto.

I agree that someone balanced is much harder for negs to unbalance (the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram (LBRP) is designed to balance a persons psyche for this reason), but I'm not so sure about the trauma/issues part. I also don't think this makes such persons immune to attack, look at all of Robert's attacks as an example? Hasn't he said that those who are evolving spiritually (so supposedly with less issues than most) will attract more of this kind of neg attention (*see note)? I remember him saying that during some of his higher mystical experiences anyone in his house would experience heightened neg attention because they were attracted by all the spiritual energy being generated. So we have an example right there that negs aren't just attracted by a persons issues or negativity. I think a large amount of neg trouble is because people are 'lighting up' on the Astral and attracting attention from feeder types. You don't have to have trauma or issues to light up on the Astral, most drugs will do that to you, for instance (which is why there are so many drug casualties in Asylums and LSd has been linked to the onset of Schizophrenia etc).

I also agree that negs do attach to traumas, but this is just one way they operate, it just makes things easier for them to mind-control, whereas some aren't after mind-control but to feed on energy. Robert Bruce has worked with many babies and children with neg trouble and most are far too young IMO for them all to have been suffering from traumas.

Robert says that the feet are our weakest point and I don't think this has anything to do with traumas of the mind, just like a leech doesn't need you to be feeling depressed to suck your blood. Please don't take this personally, it is just that I really do strongly believe we need to wake up to the fact that we live in a predatorial Universe (as Carlos Castaneda said) and that we have Inorganic predators that are much like any physical ones (Lions, Sharks, mosquitos etc). In other words it isn't all about a persons state of mind (trauma, depression, anger, negativity) that attracts negs. I guess what I am disagreeing with is where you say "a negative entity normally needs such inner turmoil to latch onto" as when my problems started I was the happiest and friendliest person you could meet - seriously! A Succubus doesn't need its victim to have "issues" it just comes along and stimulates the base chakra until it strobes, feeds on the orgasm, and away it goes (usually).

*Note: It is because of this lighting up Astrally that beginners of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn were given certain ritual exercises such as the LBRP and Middle Pillar Exercise as they were designed to build up an Astral Shield around the Neophyte because they knew there was this problem of spiritual work attracting the denizens of the lower astral like moths are attracted to flame.

I hope you noted that I said "usually," or some such in all cases. Also note that I was mostly refferencing what is often called the "garden variety" type neg.

Your point about being in a predatory universe is quite true in my experience, however I would like to note that other planes of existince are not the physical plane. The rules can be different and often are.

There is much more to being balanced than one would initially think. You have balance of the psyche for one. As you said, you were a very happy person before all this happened, but that's not the only kind of balance. There is spiritual balance, current, conscious balance in how we view the world, ect. Despite what any so called masters say, there is no such thing as a perfectly balanced individual. There is a flaw somewhere, no matter what. Your example of the feet being easier to get through from is a good example, that's not a balanced aura, there is less resistince there. So, as I seem to like to keep saying, balance is actually an extremely complicated issue at best.

I do come accross the rare occasion when it doesn't matter how balanced you are, the being is just too powerfull for the individual to handle. I said "normally" or "usually" for this very reason. These are usually very rare in my experience.

On the subject of babies, a few psychologists (One of Willhelm Reich's Students being a prime example,) have noted that current methodologies of birthing is very traumatic for babies. Thier weak aura also doesn't help the situation.

I hope these extrapolations of my point make it easier to understand what I was trying to say. Doesn't help to try and explain some things when nobody can understand what your saying :idea:

20th October 2006, 03:15 PM
[quote=scymitar72][quote="Spectral Dragon":2p0pwm0a]Thier emotions are either too positive at the time of attack or too negative, or jumbled. With a neg victims the emotions and character is never streamlined and balanced either naturally or through introspective endeavors. This makes them, as you have said, not the easy target, so an attack will utterly fail and the neg will move on unless you aren't dealing with what is commonly termed the garden variety of entity.

That part is a little fuzzy for me. :?

Hopefully the above helped, but if not what exactly was furry :?:

lol, fuzzy, not furry. I instantly thought of my cat when you said that. :D

I think I understand what you explained using AP's post. However, what you meant in the bolded part above still eludes me.

This, in context with the sentance right before it, confuzzles me. It's probably me just not being terribly bright right now, lol.

I hope this question didn't get missed. :roll:[/quote:2p0pwm0a]

Apolagies for the lateness of this response.

A streamlined and/or balanced individual is much harder for a neg to deal with. Since the individual in question has dealt with past trauma/ current issues and is at peace with himself, and because a negative entity normally needs such inner turmoil to latch onto, then these kinds of individuals are much harder for the neg to hit and thus a harder target. The smart negs will usually just find an easier target to latch onto.[/quote:2p0pwm0a]

Thanks Spec! That does help. :D


Doesn't help to try and explain some things when nobody can understand what your saying

:( Sometimes it just takes finding the right phrase to make it all click. Don't stop trying!

CFTraveler
20th January 2007, 11:22 PM
I reread this post (after all it's been a while) and I realized that after much discussing that instead of saying that negs feed off people having negative emotions that perhaps it would be more correct to say that negs prefer people that are at not at peace. That any extreme emotional state is like candy for them. I do believe that this is the eventual conclusion derived from it. That's why certain type of predators like to stir stuff up- so they can feed off it.
.02 a bit late.
CF

4th February 2007, 07:26 AM
I reread this post (after all it's been a while) and I realized that after much discussing that instead of saying that negs feed off people having negative emotions that perhaps it would be more correct to say that negs prefer people that are at not at peace. That any extreme emotional state is like candy for them. I do believe that this is the eventual conclusion derived from it. That's why certain type of predators like to stir stuff up- so they can feed off it.
.02 a bit late.
CF

That's what I was trying to get at but wasn't sure how to say it the way you did, thanks :)

shoedust
15th February 2007, 11:25 AM
it would be more correct to say that negs prefer people that are at not at peace. That any extreme emotional state is like candy for them.

Yes this is most certainly true, however, given the poor quality of the ethers of the common man these days, even stiring people up to produce great clouds of emotional ethers is not enough. The Archons that sit far beyong the "negs" so to speak demand more. This is why when a person begins to wake up and bring even the tiniest trickle of Light in, the darkside becomes aroused due to the purity of the energy. Then they can't leave you alone, trying all the harder to provoke a reaction. If the person continues to wake up, then the darkside really takes and interest in them and this is when nasty things like car crashes, computers blowing up, people crossing the street just to bash you or abuse you, start to occur. Usually the person becomes afraid at this point and closes back down. However, if the person continues to persist, the darkside begins to fear you and then the attacks really begin. Jesus, The Buddha, Saint Paul, Lao Tzu, St John of the Cross all talked (though not openly for few can cope with such levels of Truth) about the evil that attacked them and none of them were known for their negativity. Soul Quality and its threat to the Matrix is the greatest determinant of interest from the dark side.

CFTraveler
16th July 2007, 06:01 PM
I disagree- Which is why many 'Love and Lighters', or Fluffies, as some like to call them, don't even acknowledge the existence of negs. They are so complacent in their beliefs that they are completely at peace with their worldview, so they don't attract them. This is also why some materialists, who don't even entertain the concept of anything but the measurable to exist, are not bothered from them. It's not about how much light or dark there is in their souls (or etheric matrix, or whatever), it's about how at peace they are with how they perceive their universe. I think this explains why a certain type of a-hole never seems bothered by anything- it's about inner peace, not good or evil, dark or light.

Astral Exorcist
16th July 2007, 11:36 PM
The cracks around my head need to be constantly mended. Fanned with heavy sage smoke. The benifits of doing this is weaken cracks, cords. But I never manage to complete the repair remove crack, cord in one session, routine. The sensations experienced is like a non physical splinter but being taken outside my body a few cm's above the head space. I don't mind pre stimulating the crown chakra as that energy generated their is used up for healing the head region. Not for crazy experiences involving the crown because that is not the intention. Once that energy is used it's best to prestimulate what no longer has become active from the lack of current energy. Note: Healing the aura will only work for some time. If work needs to be done inward then the faults will be re projected as a cracked aura soon in time. Or negs can widen a weaken crack. After I hit the right spot with the fan on the aura crack the growling of the neg intensifies depending where it's attached to, to the lower etheric location. Perhaps the black cord has some sort of connection like a road tunnel can be imagined. I always come to theory that the cracks give room for neg strains. Heavy cords to be socketed into the cracks for better overshadowing without letting the victim know it's overshadowed by a quick slip in slip out. But I can't prove it. To let you know Robert's right about the cracks. I've also noticed the best opportunity for it to come in is when the defense are down only for a moment. In a negs sense it's the smoothest ticket for a quick overshadowing. Smooth is always good in the neg sense as a undetected presence slip in. The natural barrier does exist and most people have it if they like it or not. Or simply they may be unaware of it but better aware. In the perspective of a neg the head is the control panel for experienced overshadowers. Note: their are many ways to counter this problem. Some pests do go into the emotional body aswell. I've figured this one out after indentifying the emotional body and healing it in one of my self healing sessions. And different levels of beings. For more experienced negs they may hinder around different levels of your being not only the etheric and astral. But basically once your freed astrally it's much easier to attain help astrally as I can imagine to heal other levels of bodies or you could do it yourself. Your choice.


BTW, I reject the theory some negs can actually be compassionate beings somewhat lightworkers I reject.

HeavyFlea
10th September 2007, 05:06 PM
I scanned through this thread rapidly, so I could be repeating something already said but...

I've read a lot on how we should 'love and accept' the attacks themselves. I first read this in the Law of One series of books, then Maureen Caudill seemed to repeat it in her book. Basically, we are the light and the dark... if a perceived negative entity 'attacks', accepting it and giving it love and thanks seems to be all the protection needed as I'm understanding these sources. While perceived negatives can happen, if the catalyst is used as a gift, the 'neg' is really a positive. It's all perception?

My understanding is that perhaps no protection is needed at all. No tricks or rituals. For piece of mind and without understanding this fully, it may be safer to do the safety precautions... but maybe within the Law of one, if nothing is seen negatively, perhaps it isn't.

CFTraveler
10th September 2007, 09:00 PM
My understanding is that perhaps no protection is needed at all. No tricks or rituals. For piece of mind and without understanding this fully, it may be safer to do the safety precautions... but maybe within the Law of one, if nothing is seen negatively, perhaps it isn't. And this will work for you provided this is your true belief, your worldview. But for those who don't share this type of belief system will not be protected by this, which is why I always say that even though I defeated one just that way, I would never advocate it.
And remember, metaphysically, getting shot in the leg may be what some people may need, for their spiritual growth, but that doesn't mean that it is a good thing, from the point of view of the person getting shot.
(an extreme example, don't try this at home).

HeavyFlea
11th September 2007, 04:33 PM
And this will work for you provided this is your true belief, your worldview. But for those who don't share this type of belief system will not be protected by this, which is why I always say that even though I defeated one just that way, I would never advocate it.

I totally agree.


And remember, metaphysically, getting shot in the leg may be what some people may need, for their spiritual growth, but that doesn't mean that it is a good thing, from the point of view of the person getting shot.

But why wouldn't it still be a good thing? Within the physical we can choose to see it as bad, metaphysically it could be very good, or what's needed for spiritual development... we may have even chosen it to happen at some level. So how would our physical point of view of good vs. bad really affect it?

Maybe the physical perspective of it being negative plays a key role in the events spiritual effectiveness. Or perhaps a different view/understanding of it's purpose can still provide the same effect. Could catalyst be used more effectively if taking more of a metaphysical outlook on negs... if that view point is chosen. Say, for example if we didn't view anything as bad... just as an opportunity for further spiritual growth. I suspect it depends on where you are spiritually, and where you chose to put that faith.

CFTraveler
11th September 2007, 07:50 PM
I'm not saying this may not be the case, what I'm saying that if there is a metaphysical reason (higher self decided to learn something by being attacked by a discarnate entity) for attack the lesson may be more complicated that 'learning to love unconditionally', although I agree that this is prob. the lesson that most of us (regardless of neg involvement) need to learn.

First of all, it's more complicated than 'good' or 'bad', because these are humanly decided parameters, but telling a neg sufferer that they need to throw love at an attacker is as irresponsible as telling someone to go to a high crime area at night unprotected and to try to give them love and make any possible attackers change their ways. The karmic or metaphysical lessons are not clearcut and obvious.

For example, let's say that I'm alone in my house one night, leave my house unlocked, and a rapist sneaks in and rapes me in the night. Would you say 'well, maybe you just need to learn to accept your attacker because he's here to teach you something'? I think not. Even though metaphysically the lessons were chosen by me (I needed to learn to lock my house at night and be more vigilant, for some reason), telling me the above would be insensitive at the least, even if well-meaning.
In the same way a neg sufferer would have to deal with the present problem as it stands, (via countermeasures, or whatever gets them through the night) and maybe, just maybe their higher selves will direct them to that part of them that may or may not be in alignment wth this thought process, and then this will make it work, and they will have transcended this stage.
But if they get told that their experience is somehow their own fault (which is what some may interpret this as) all you will get is someone being defensive about their very real pain.
Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

HeavyFlea
11th September 2007, 11:23 PM
I think I get what your saying. I'm not trying to say this is the way it is, or is not.

I didn't mean to imply simply throwing love at it, as in just do it and you'll be fine. I'm very interested in the subject and relaying some information I've read and trying to incorporate into my current understanding. I wouldn't tell anyone to do anything, I'm here to learn and wanted to bring a different look at the situation.

It is a very difficult issue to grasp, the whole metaphysical vs. physical and the reasons why things happen. I would like to explore different avenues of this and hopefully grow from the conversations we have. The unconditional love angle is just one, it intrigues me greatly... and most of what I was saying was questions, as in I don't have the answers. Perhaps ultimately it is the answer who the heck knows, but some information I've come across seems to suggest that angle. Fascinating, if extremely difficult to grasp.

I don't mind others getting defensive, and hope I don't offend anyone. It's not my intention. It may happen though.

On your example... Of course I'm not going to sit here and say just let the attack happen. I don't know it's a very hard thing to speculate on, would I let myself be attacked? Heck no. But I don't have a complete understanding of why it's happening. I mean would some spiritual leaders, in time, just let the attack happen? I suppose some teachings would say so... but this is tough. Rape is an emotional subject. But I think I get what you're saying, I'm sorta there with you, but also looking into this 'ultimate love' angle... because I guess in a way, through all our pains, efforts, joys etc. That I hope it all happens for some ultimate reason.

CFTraveler
11th September 2007, 11:27 PM
I hope it all happens for some ultimate reason. Me too. In fact, to me it's a matter of faith. But then that's a whole 'nother subject. :wink:

ButterflyWoman
12th September 2007, 05:29 AM
I happen to believe that there ARE some negs who would be made stronger by fighting them. The more you struggle, the more they like it, because the more energy you're expending on them, and that's what they feed on. They WANT you to be angry, vengeful, spiteful, etc., and if you direct it toward them, so much the better.

There's a saying I like: Never wrestle with a pig. The pig enjoys it, and it gets you dirty.

That's how I feel about negs. I take every precaution I can to keep them away from me and those I love. I have wards all around my house and property and on my person. I regularly surround my children with positive energy, and I take care to ward them from nightmares (which is partly how the negs started to get a foothold on me). I take it quite seriously.

But the idea of going out deliberately and actually engaging these parasites in some sort of battle? No way. I really have far, far better things to do with my energy than feed it to them. They devoured enough of my energy over the years, thanks.

I would not hesitate to take on negs that were actively bothering people I loved or friends, including setting up reflective shields that will bounce negative energy back (sometimes that's necessary, and effective), but for the most part, so long as they leave me and my family and friends alone, I leave them alone. My energy is better spent on protection and healing and love than on some sort of battle.

star
20th September 2007, 12:29 AM
What about people? You can love being hit but its still going to hurt - how else can you explain some neg attacks? What do you think about the evolution ladder while we are at it? That even Negs can move up I mean.

I think Spectral Dragon mentioned that his first life was as a neg created by a black magician.

CFTraveler
20th September 2007, 12:56 AM
What about people? You can love being hit but its still going to hurt - how else can you explain some neg attacks? What do you think about the evolution ladder while we are at it? That even Negs can move up I mean.

I think Spectral Dragon mentioned that his first life was as a neg created by a black magician. I don't understand the question, would you clarify who you're asking it of (if anyone in particular?) I'm afraid I'm not following you.

ButterflyWoman
20th September 2007, 03:17 AM
I don't understand the question, would you clarify who you're asking it of (if anyone in particular?) I'm afraid I'm not following you.

Ditto.

star
20th September 2007, 05:15 PM
Ah - The love thing is not an end all fix all. As far as protection. You can be effected through it.

Belief is an effective - sometimes powerful filter, but I find that its strongest only as a block and a stunt to spiritual growth. Setting intent to love something will send loving energy and I agree that energy is very strong and transformative. But many creatures simply take that energy and convert it to whatever they want it to be regardless.

Programing you see - I can set a filter that takes your love and changes it into destructive fire and allow it to loop so it contuinally burns your aura or soul as you try to love. Meh - the thing here is that not only are humans smart - even genuises - many negs are too, regardless on how your defining them.

Then I went off topic and mentioned spiritual evolution. I thought it would help hit home that things are more capable then they may seem.

:)

CFTraveler
20th September 2007, 06:04 PM
Ok- I get this, but in my view, like in life, there are all kinds of critters with different points of view, motivations and capabilities, and like in everything else, the same thing doesn't apply to everything. But sometimes things work when you don't expect them to.
Which is why I said (elsewhere, I think) "I've done it, and it worked for me, but I wouldn't recommend it for everyone else".
Just the other day I tried to muster up light to throw at something, and just couldn't do it- but that's another theme, I guess.

star
20th September 2007, 07:03 PM
That makes perfect sense. Becuase you have to take in every situation uniquely

journyman161
20th September 2007, 08:46 PM
Which is why I said (elsewhere, I think) "I've done it, and it worked for me, but I wouldn't recommend it for everyone else".
Just the other day I tried to muster up light to throw at something, and just couldn't do it- but that's another theme, I guess.If you can't get light together to throw at them, you coudl just 'glow' at them - your bright & shiny soul should bedazzle any dark entity. *grins*

Or think of the laser paradigm - sharp concentrated light rather than a big ball.

Failing that of course, there's http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/clipart/swordfight.gif :lol:

CFTraveler
20th September 2007, 09:01 PM
Frankly, I wasn't feeling very 'bright n' shiny' at the time, and was having trouble keeping my wits together, but thanks for that vote of confidence. :shock:

wstein
21st September 2007, 12:35 AM
Which is why I said (elsewhere, I think) "I've done it, and it worked for me, but I wouldn't recommend it for everyone else".
Just the other day I tried to muster up light to throw at something, and just couldn't do it- but that's another theme, I guess.If you can't get light together to throw at them, you coudl just 'glow' at them - your bright & shiny soul should bedazzle any dark entity. *grins* I assume this is not a serious comment. Simply glowing might bedazzle your opponent, but then a timely exit is suggested. Any bright light will attract energy vampires.

CFTraveler
21st September 2007, 02:05 AM
He was kidding. He also calls me the 'forum mum'. But seriously, my quote was from a repetitive dweller experience I went through a few days ago. I posted it in Astral Awareness. I tried all kinds of things and I kept going back to the same situation. So I tried (the last time) a little L& L, since nothing did. But it seems I was fighting my own fear reaction after all, not the critter itself, which I think I created (my HS must've been bored that morning). But I don't want to derail this thread with that....

ButterflyWoman
21st September 2007, 02:38 AM
He also calls me the 'forum mum'.

You mean you're not? :shock:

HeavyFlea
27th September 2007, 09:06 PM
Ah - The love thing is not an end all fix all. As far as protection. You can be effected through it.


Perhaps it could be... If the theory that ultimately 'All is One' is correct, we in essence would all be the god/love/light source... including negs. They are you, you are the neg.




Belief is an effective - sometimes powerful filter, but I find that its strongest only as a block and a stunt to spiritual growth. Setting intent to love something will send loving energy and I agree that energy is very strong and transformative. But many creatures simply take that energy and convert it to whatever they want it to be regardless.


Well belief or total faith in my opinion is everything... if you believe a neg has power to do harm it can. Perhaps if you fully had faith through your free will that you can not be harmed and you thwart the attempt with love and light thus canceling out the desired affect of the neg. Is it conceivable then that any attempt to attack would then be stopped because the end result intended can no longer happen? Maybe you can't control what happens, but can control what is perceived from it?



Programing you see - I can set a filter that takes your love and changes it into destructive fire and allow it to loop so it contuinally burns your aura or soul as you try to love.


What you do with that love is your will. That's what counts... your will. They can do whatever they want but cannot affect your freewill unless that permission is granted in some way. Say if you were this neg that set this perceived loop, it is your will in some way to do me harm. I send you light/love in your attempt because I understand you are part of the one creator just the same as I and your attempt is your way of expressing that love/light. (Which the darkness is as well, because even the dark is.) Any attempt is accepted and loved and thus your desired effect never truly happens.


Meh - the thing here is that not only are humans smart - even genuises - many negs are too, regardless on how your defining them.


Well even a human genius may not be all that smart... What do we really know at all? Even our smartest human can't possibly provide the answer(s).

And it is possible that a neg. is all about how you define it.

I'm not trying to say this is the answer, but it very well could be or be along the lines of another possibility. I'm also not advocating that people try this when we are so adept at thinking we need protection from everything, we are just conditioned to think this way and if full faith isn't applied or you believe you can be hurt without protection you will.

HeavyFlea
1st October 2007, 07:19 PM
I've been thinking a lot about the defining thing... how does everyone here define a neg?

Is everything bad that happens an apparent neg.. ex. you stub your toe or you get the flu or someone smacks you. Is that a neg.

How do you know if your being 'attacked' or 'greeted'? I mean how do you know the difference between something that is happening to you for a specific reason... say like your energy body is sick with blockages and it causes you to be physically sick, rather than an entity causing it. Or is there a weakness that the neg. chose to exploit?

On the astral, what would a neg be as opposed to the physical?

Any thoughts / opinions ?

DAN
1st October 2007, 08:36 PM
I've been thinking a lot about the defining thing... how does everyone here define a neg?

Is everything bad that happens an apparent neg.. ex. you stub your toe or you get the flu or someone smacks you. Is that a neg.

How do you know if your being 'attacked' or 'greeted'? I mean how do you know the difference between something that is happening to you for a specific reason... say like your energy body is sick with blockages and it causes you to be physically sick, rather than an entity causing it. Or is there a weakness that the neg. chose to exploit?

On the astral, what would a neg be as opposed to the physical?

Any thoughts / opinions ?

It was easy for me because a lot of paranomal activity came with it.

Dan

CFTraveler
1st October 2007, 08:41 PM
I've been thinking a lot about the defining thing... how does everyone here define a neg? How I define a neg=negative entity. This means any nonphysical entity that causes apparent harm to someone. For example, a thoughtform that you have created that reinforces negative behavior is a neg, an astral entity that causes you harm (via negative mind programming, or energy vamping) is a neg- another projector who tries to harm you is a neg, a 'classic' demon is a neg. Anything that exists in the astral and causes harm, even if it is not 'evil', that is, not have 'evil intent' is a neg. That's how I define a neg.


Is everything bad that happens an apparent neg.. ex. you stub your toe or you get the flu or someone smacks you. Is that a neg. No, that would be a negative event, not a negative entity. Unless the neg tripped you and you fell down. :P ps. that was a joke, for whoever didn't get that-

How do you know if your being 'attacked' or 'greeted'? Sometimes you don't- the best thing is to see how you feel afterwards.


I mean how do you know the difference between something that is happening to you for a specific reason... In my worldview everything happens for a reason, we just sometimes don't know what that is- so we have to rely on our senses and hope we made the right decision.


say like your energy body is sick with blockages and it causes you to be physically sick, rather than an entity causing it. Or is there a weakness that the neg. chose to exploit? Ah, the chicken or the egg scenario. This has caused untold pages of discussion, which is why I always say, instead of arguing about what causes what, if you suspect neg involvement in a mental problem, treat the mental problem and do countermeasures. If you suspect that a health concern is caused or exacerbated by a neg, treat the health concern under it's own merits, and use countermeasures to preclude neg problems.
In other words, instead of arguing about what causes what, just follow whatever medical guidelines (or psychological ones, depending on the case) and supplement with countermeasures, instead of endlessly arguing about the merits of each, which IMO is a waste of time and resources.

On the astral, what would a neg be as opposed to the physical? Whatever thing that can cause problems for a person. If you want to compare it to the physical, I would say a mosquito is a neg, because it can give you malaria (or only an itchy finger), or it can be like a man-eating tiger (if they really do hunt humans), which although it doesn't mean it's 'evil' it has to do what it has to do, and if you're dinner, well, too bad for you.
In other words, moral choice is too human a term to describe them.


Any thoughts / opinions ?
No, that's pretty much it, for now.

Beekeeper
2nd October 2007, 01:42 AM
Ah, the chicken or the egg scenario. You mean the "condition or the neg" scenario. :D

CFTraveler
2nd October 2007, 04:06 PM
Ah, the chicken or the egg scenario. You mean the "condition or the neg" scenario. :D You remembered that! :lol: :lol:

HeavyFlea
4th October 2007, 02:13 PM
Thanks CFTraveler. Your opinions are appreciated!!

So a negative entity... but to that entity is it negative? That's our perception. But while I say that, generally that's how I perceive a neg aswell. But I'm thinking to this entity it is not negative, rather doing what it does for whatever reasons, survival? perhaps, like in how we kill living things for food. (plants and animals)

I'm sure there is neg's at certain levels... I have a concern that's eating at me though and it's represented in society at this time in a big way. Personal responsibility. It's like, to use a simple example... someone backs into a oven that's been left on, they yell out who the hell left that oven on??? Then the next day it happens again, and again the person yells out who the heck left the freakin oven on, I'm gonna get em... you see the problem here, that person continues in their same way blaming others for the harm being done. When do they finally realize that they're backing into the stove regardless of who left it on. In this way society blames everything and everyone else for their problems or harms perceivable done to them, when all it takes is a shift in perception. But this is general, and I'm not saying all negs are this way, but I see a problem where people could start blaming everything on a perceived neg when it's really not that at all... or in thinking that, do you actually create a neg.

As far as the chicken and the egg thing, while I appreciate your opinion I don't think it's anymore a waste of time or resources than the whole discussion of neg's in general. Perhaps it is paramount to the whole discussion of neg's itself.

Anyway, I hope I'm not coming across (pardon the pun) to negatively, I really enjoy the comments here and learning a great deal.

HeavyFlea
4th October 2007, 02:21 PM
This all sort of reminds me of a favorite quote of mine from psychiatrist Carl Jung when he made this astute observation... "One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. The latter procedure, however, is disagreeable, and therefore, not popular."

LuXFluX
24th January 2008, 04:58 PM
I've just begun posting here and everyone seems very knowledgeable so forgive if I'm mentioning something redundant.

That being said Hermetic philosophy has a useful concept of the functional/absolute truth reality. Example being, functionally I'm ignorant, in an absolute sense I am a spark of God. However, as I am now in this existence it would be rather silly for me to claim that I am fully aware of this fact, and I am willing to bet the majority of us here on earth are in the same boat or we wouldn't be here now.

Absolutely speaking, negs do not exist. It's all God. The All in All. However you wish to understand the Godhead/ultimate reality. But.....from our perspective who knows? Hidden in the unconscious reality of your total self are many beliefs you may not even be aware of having, let alone the mechanics of how they work. The "neg" debate is indicative of this. So is my short post history.....ignorance abounds in all of us. It's part of being human.

There are many mysteries in life from our perspectives.....I have seen many an innocent person fall victim to an influence that I could only deem as a neg or demonic force. Many of them had no *conscious* belief or even knowledge of these things. But....when the total self is explored, many times we find that strange things are inside of our full beings. Beliefs, others thoughts, the silent assumptions of society.....myriad things. And they are unconscious. Much of life is bringing light to darkness, or bringing the hidden into the lens of human understanding. As far as my functional grasp of this can go, that is what neg influence is to me. It is very real in a functional sense, meaning, we should as humans take it as a real force if we percieve it as one and work with it. If it *feels or seems* real, don't lie. Treat is as such because it IS real, no need to deny it. Only by being true to your reality can you grow and overcome obstacles. That is a large part of what we are here to do. The Why's of life are always the most difficult question. Who can say why they are here? And if they can, who can say why you are here? We are all human in this regard as well, and we are all learning together. I would suggest dealing with this in light of its functional truth in the lives of many people, most of whom are consciously in search of bettering themselves, all of whom are ultimately pointed squarely toward God.

I love this basic question of Hermetics: "Ask yourself, what is this mysterious force that put you here seemingly against your will? And why, just as you seem to grasp what life can offer you, does it remove you again with it's invisible arm in death?" Fascinating is it not? Work in the functional to know the absolute.

aprilla
17th July 2008, 08:50 AM
yeh its a funny old question is that. Hermetics seems interesting. I'm gonna have to have a gander.. :D

The closest thing I have come to understanding negs is from Eckhart Tolle's version, and he terms it.. ' the painbody.' Although he does not mention they come in dreams/astral travel.
It's just very uncomplicated title,and the mind cannot box it, label it and attactch ideas to it. And if we remind ourselves they are our own, even if logic says otherwize, (because we are all guilty of feeling and thinking the same negative/positive things, even to sweet little old ladies :twisted: ) we are within our power to chemically alter the thoughtforms/energies that torment us even in the astral world.
I have had my share of psychic attacks, intentional and otherwize, I've ran 'til my little legs have give way(or woke up :roll: ) and if they are independant in and of themselves, the best thing to do is love them, know them, and teach them by example, therefor turning pain into joy/love and peace. raging a war with them is what they want not need. recognising yourself in them is the beginning to a transformation.
Thats just what i intend to do, when I become lucid enough and overcome my own fear of confrontations.

Dawn
2nd March 2009, 05:46 PM
Wow, had to respond to this thread. To the poster, what a relief and also something I felt as well, great to see it written about. I've had 'help' from a person in the past with trying to deal with the negs that were around me and when I told her the ritual she asked me to perform didn't work she said I was weak and started a whole barrage of personal insults.(she's a medium) Very upsetting stuff. She lay the blame entirely at my feet for it not working but I've never felt it's as simple to deal with as how I was told back then. I felt great gratitude and love towards God (I'm not religious) as the pain in my life finally came to an end, then it all kicked off very shortly after.
Thank-you for this.

dobidou
5th June 2009, 02:47 AM
I loved to read that topic, the post and replies (as Dawn :-)

I have my own debate against myself on that subject, I'll be fast (the thread is already a couple of km long!) haha:

Some mentionned "balance". I think it's really important, we know, but the way achieving it is really an art.

In ANY mechanism evolving species or entities, anything being more intelligent then a rock, oops, sorry, even the rocks, keeps working up their balance, as we know we messed up envionment somehow and now try to fix it, and as a the small anoying animal is important because it's part of the whole, making the balance every second...

What is amazing, it's our ability to "try to balance", hahaha :) We call that intelligence? If we were only animals, there would be no "good" or "bad" for the "whole universe", but only for ourself, our familly, or our clan. That is why, in our modern thoughts, mermaids are cute, ghosts are Caspers, people in prisons are victims of their childhood or brain development...

The deal has been to focus on all of that, trying to fix, making it better, such a nice fixation of always snatching a new problem, until we get tired of seing negative things, then move to an other level...

I read about reincarnation. What I know for myself it's that my memory sucks, a lot. Sometimes it's bad, and sometimes it's really good. As I wonder about "if I could live 300 years", how bad it could be hahaha, we live in a small space where everything as a begining and an end. New beginings and new ends. And that gives us the opportunity to get the chance to perform new stats everytime, a chance to make better or worst...

What I keep in mind, it's that focussing on good, is focussing on bad (and/or inverse).

I remember my first drive lesson, that was a long time ago, abut I never forgot. Driver instructor said:
"If you keep looking at the lines in front of you, or the bush, you'll end up there, you need to scan everywhere at the same time, but you really need to look straigh far in front of you...!"

We hit onto so many new thoughts, realities, and we love that, because it's "food" for our brain, for the part that is hungry for discoveries and learning. Can be good, or bad, and we can't decide not to think about "is it good or bad", it's stronger then us. The ideal environment where there is no good or bad, doesn't exist I think, unless we get into a space-out consciousness level :p

Every new reality adds new words to our dictionnary, and thoughts that we will cross. The funniest abitity of our brain is to make links, I found that it's so easy to reproduce situations. Sometimes I would say that we're almost programmed to act that way :P

6th July 2009, 05:07 PM
Wow, had to respond to this thread. To the poster, what a relief and also something I felt as well, great to see it written about. I've had 'help' from a person in the past with trying to deal with the negs that were around me and when I told her the ritual she asked me to perform didn't work she said I was weak and started a whole barrage of personal insults.(she's a medium) Very upsetting stuff. She lay the blame entirely at my feet for it not working but I've never felt it's as simple to deal with as how I was told back then. I felt great gratitude and love towards God (I'm not religious) as the pain in my life finally came to an end, then it all kicked off very shortly after.
Thank-you for this.

Was it Nita?

12th September 2009, 05:43 PM
Hello - I am a new member on this website, and I must say, that for someone who has been fighting severe neg attacks ALONE, it is wonderful to see this discussion. I can see validity in both sides of the argument, and it gives me hope that I am not alone in my nightmare. I will be listening.
Thank all of you for your sincere comments.

ivanela
25th October 2010, 12:43 PM
I want to give my 2 cents on this subject, some conclusions I have derived from my experience.
There are a variety of negative entities, and I suspect that with some of them most of us have met million of times,
but most of the people are not aware. To me, they feel like insects, and are drawn by emition of negative feelings that we all have from time to time,
and have a tendency to increase emision of negativity that a human already emanate at that moment. It happened to all of us- situation that
normally cause negative response in us, but our response is way to intensive that the situation accounts for (this, when you write-off possibility that
overreaction was due to an emotional entanglement we are not aware off). They usually leave after clear demand of a free will is made (most probably, they are not on a higher level of awareness than we are, so simple intent/statement even without too much energy invested would make them go).
However, there are higher negative beings whose attacks are so cleverly designed and implemented, that without knowledge of their existence and insight from other people, most us would never suspect their influence. According to my experience, those attacks are mostly initiated when one is ready for the next step on the advancement ladder or is approaching important destiny related crossroad where significant choice is to be made. This kind of attack does not depend in which mood one is at that moment and weather one has positive or negative attitude. For example, I have noticed that if I am in a very positive phase, they would try to erode this positivity either by sending those small negs which alone doesn't account for much, but when in a large numbers wear me off (especially because I am guilty of neglecting this kind of small attacks, sometimes I would just yell "go away" because I am to busy with something to give my full attention. I can account for dare consequences of neglect of those small attacks.), or by arranging a million of small, so called "random" stupid events without any significance (you are in a hurry, but can't find parking space, you get stuck in the traffic jam, someone spills coffee on your dress, etc...events that when happen consequently in one day can really piss you off even if you start your day in a very good mood and are really positive person). In my experience, there are signs of approaching attack, and for me, in two cases it was ear ringing, an SMS from one very negative person (since this person is not my friend, just someone I know, I have only received SMS from this person twice, in both cases before a major attack) in the middle of the night and in one case it was stupid, irrelevant song playing in my mind. What came to my mind was that this is a screen for tempering with my brain, and stupid song just stopped at that moment. There are also attacks which are related to lessons not grasped, and those, even though unpleasant, can provide you with valuable information regarding unresolved internal conflict. I am at this moment recovering from a major attack of this last type in which, even though aware of what is going on, aware of every move they made (this attack was implemented by using another human being who was carrier of the attack, most probably not even aware of it, and I definitively gave my consent for this!!!) and even though I have applied countermeasures, ended with a huge energy loss for me which lead to decreasing my health (it was just a fly, but since I am normally very healthy and have a good immunity, this was indicator of a tremendous loss in energy). While some kind of attacks can be stopped by asking for help from Higher Self (please, in reading this note that I am just expressing my own conclusions, from my own experience, according to my own beliefs/ideas. I don't want to enrage anyone or provoke discussion on weather we have or not have Higher Self. For me, not a belief, but a working theory is that we have, so in my conversation with higher worlds I am addressing my Higher Self), those kinds of attacks will not be stopped. I even suspect that in this kind of attacks negative beings are actually fulfilling their role in connection to us, where they can be allowed and encouraged by HS as they are great learning tool (especially for people inclined to seek for truth or desire faster spiritual development). What happened to me was a complex lesson of necessity of discernment, wisdom and application of given knowledge in every situation, and that "compassion" is not excuse good enough when you fail to act according to your level of awareness. I am also guilty of avoiding confrontation and evasiveness regarding truth, so I denied person in question opportunity to hear much needed truth. Even though events that transpired were not dramatic by any means, the subsequent loss in energy and blockage of certain progress that was taking place before the attack are significant. Of course, level of awareness and knowledge we gain on our journey makes us responsible for acting upon it and applying it, so consequences of bad choices are more immediate and intense than for people who are less aware and have less knowledge. This is a vast subject, and this post is already too long. Anyway, those are my experiences and thoughts on the subject.

Desa
4th November 2010, 10:20 PM
This is an experience I've had, I'm putting it here so it serves as an idea on how negs see things, I have been in the state known as sympathetic vampirism, and this is what I have seen, I believe this is how negs interact with us.

Basically I saw a body, something like the man of Vitruvio, but female, on her I saw white buttons, tons of them, so they were not just chakras, but also energy exchange centers and so on, I am not entirely sure what I did, but I "played the piano" on them for a while, then there was... an exchange of energy :oops:

This didn't seem bidimensional to me, but multidimensional, like there were no boundaries, of course I can't compare since that has been my only OBE thus far.

Well, that's the story, I hope it is of some help for a better understanding on how negs operate.